Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
16 April, 2021, 02:45:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Need to contact the Forum Administrator? e-mail forum.admin@lanciamc.co.uk, for Database Administrator e-mail database.admin@lanciamc.co.uk      -      Copy deadline for Viva Lancia is 12th of each month.      -      For Events e-mail events@lanciamc.co.uk      -      To Join the club go to http://www.lanciamc.co.uk/join.htm
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Brake advice please!  (Read 6775 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
davidwheeler
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1193



« Reply #15 on: 16 July, 2017, 06:04:54 PM »

or this


* cr1.jpg (41.31 KB, 800x800 - viewed 1054 times.)
Logged

David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
davidwheeler
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1193



« Reply #16 on: 16 July, 2017, 06:13:38 PM »

Or even this one - which I had forgotten!


* IMG_4206a.jpg (110.67 KB, 1155x242 - viewed 234 times.)
Logged

David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
stanley sweet
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1149



WWW
« Reply #17 on: 17 July, 2017, 10:57:02 AM »

For what it's worth I have some scribbled notes in my manual from a conversation with Omicron a few years back. The cup washers (parts 31 and 12 in the workshop manual) should face each other with the 'open' side facing each other. They also said that sometimes the cup washer (part 12 again) is sometimes replaced with a solid rubber washer. This might account for the extra washer you have.

As far as brake bleeding is concerned the successful technique so far for me (with an assistant) is to jack the back axle up using the plate in the centre to open the compensation valve. Then front uppers first, then front lowers, then rears. It's always worked when done in that order.
Logged

1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #18 on: 17 July, 2017, 11:20:15 AM »

Hi David and Stanley - thank you both; very helpful.
It all seemed relatively straightforward at the time and I did take copious pictures but with the washers/seals when they're in situ it's not easy to see orientation and then you take them off and after the fact think "if only...".  Undecided
The MC diagram below indicates that the washers circled red should be in the same orientation so unless anyone says differently I'll go with that.
The washer circled blue in the diagram was very much a solid washer in my MC so that may account for the washer I have left over - thank you Stanley. Interesting though this change in design.

I still can't find diagrams or information that confirm the seal set-up for MC-to-servo. As my posting said, I only had one washer (not in the refurb pack) and was absent the larger washer (present in the refurb pack). Is this another case of a particular batch design favouring one over the other (although my MC clearly has recesses for both). Mmm.


* FulviaMCDiagram.jpg (718.72 KB, 1399x1221 - viewed 299 times.)
Logged
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #19 on: 29 July, 2017, 03:29:06 PM »

After dismantling, cleaning and replacing the seals on my master cylinder I put it back on the Fulvia today. With an Eezibleed system I then bled the brakes. To my dismay the pedal still went to the floor as it did before the rebuild with the now familiar 'sigh' of air.  Sad
Looks like I'll need to hunt down a new master cylinder...
Logged
lancialulu
Press Officer
Permanent resident
*****
Posts: 4177



« Reply #20 on: 29 July, 2017, 04:24:12 PM »

If there were no signs of scoring in the bores and you have assembled the piston "flap valves" correctly then it must be air in the system somewhere???

You can buy 21mm fulvia re-manufactured (ie pattern part) mastercylinder bodies but not cheap.... It may be worth just doing the rebuild again or taking it to "Past Parts" for them to rebuild?
Logged

Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #21 on: 29 July, 2017, 04:56:54 PM »

Thanks.
The old seals actually looked all fine but were all replaced with a seal kit from Omicron. I carefully inspected the MC when I dismantled it and it looks smooth and unscored / unpitted. I'm still getting exactly the same symptoms I had before the refurb though ... a sigh of air and the brake pedal easily being pushed to the floor.
I think my only option is really, as you've suggested, to send it to a specialist.
I came across 'J & L Spares' but if you're recommending 'Past Parts' that's good enough for me.
« Last Edit: 29 July, 2017, 04:58:58 PM by Scott » Logged
stanley sweet
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1149



WWW
« Reply #22 on: 29 July, 2017, 09:19:29 PM »

Did you follow the strange bleeding sequence?
Logged

1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
the.cern
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1490


« Reply #23 on: 29 July, 2017, 09:54:46 PM »

Past Parts are good!!!!

                  Andy
Logged
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #24 on: 29 July, 2017, 10:41:28 PM »

Good question Stanley and I believe so.
Took the rear wheels off for better access but had the axle on stands then did front RHS top; LHS top; RHS bottom; LHS bottom. Followed by rear RHS; LHS. Eazibleed seemed to be pushing fluid through okay as allowed fluid to run free from each nipple but after this sequence still a pedal to the floor situation.  Sad

Thanks for the help and advice from everyone. Nine times out of ten I can fix something myself but I'll give PastParts a call on Monday for this situation.
Logged
lancialulu
Press Officer
Permanent resident
*****
Posts: 4177



« Reply #25 on: 30 July, 2017, 08:10:08 AM »

Have you got fluid running under gravity bleeding? It is common for Fulvias to be a pig to bleed. If you have fluid coming through under gravity can you get an assistant to press the pedal down and hold while you close the bleed nipple....and repeat after releasing the pedal and you do you see more fluid being pumped. The sigh of air must be coming from the servo on the back of the m/c?
Logged

Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #26 on: 30 July, 2017, 12:06:27 PM »

Hi Tim - thanks; appreciate the follow up.
Yes I've put my head in the foot well and when I press the pedal down the 'sigh' is emanating from what can only be the servo. With the brakes operating normally such maximum depression would never be realised and the sigh never noticeable; very noticeable now though!
Fluid seems to be coming through fine with the Eezibleed pressurising via the MC reservoir hooked up  to a tyre operating at the 20psi recommended. I must admit to not doing anything with the pedal during this procedure so I'll definitely take your advice.
Guess what I'm doing this afternoon ... assuming the weather holds. It's like Russian roulette with the downpours where I am right now!
Logged
Scott
Megaposter
*
Posts: 245


« Reply #27 on: 30 July, 2017, 02:03:12 PM »

Have drained and taken off the master cylinder again just for a triple check.
Rear plunger very difficult to get out though; this was an easy part of the refurb with only two simple seals so can't believe I've done something wrong here! But with it so difficult to move this does raise question marks for me.
To reassemble and try bleeding again I think will get me to the same situation I've just encountered so I'll definitely give PastParts that call tomorrow.
Logged
davidwheeler
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1193



« Reply #28 on: 30 July, 2017, 03:40:53 PM »

I abandoned Eezibleed in favour of the Sealy vacuum bleeding kit and find it greatly superior and much less messy too!   Bleeds my Fulvia very easily.   It is only 36 from Eurocarparts at the moment and worth every penny.
Logged

David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
nistri
Megaposter
*
Posts: 362


« Reply #29 on: 31 July, 2017, 06:47:30 AM »

assuming that the master cylinder has been correctly reassembled, slacken (NOT to be undone) the front union nut at the master cylinder, place a large rag under it, pump the pedal slowly 2-3 times to push fluid out, retighten the nut, and repeat the operation with the rear union nut. Then go on to bleed the brakes as per Lancia advice. If your car has a remote servo (GTE, rallye S), repeat the bleeding as above at the servo cylinder with the engine running. Good luck,
Andrea
Logged

Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2021 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.069 seconds with 21 queries.