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Author Topic: Bleeding brakes  (Read 1516 times)
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bobhenry999
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« on: 22 October, 2016, 01:20:32 PM »

Chaps,

 I`m not cursing in the title of this post, but just want some help/advice on bleeding the brakes on my 63 Coupe which has the early brake set up.

The brake pedal has become increasingly spongy with far too much travel, although when pushed hard it will lock up the wheels.
There are no leaks from the system that I can see, so I am hoping that a brake fluid change might solve the problem as it is the same fluid that was in it 5 years ago when I first bought the car, although I am open to other suggestions for the cause of the problem.

If that is the case, are there any tips on how to carry out the bleeding, and what do I do with the 2 plungers on the master cyclinder ? as even after owning Flavias/2000s for over 30 years I have never had to mess around with the brake hydraulics before !

Look forward to some tips/advice.

Thanks,

Bob
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Brian Long
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« Reply #1 on: 23 October, 2016, 10:00:14 AM »

Bob,
There is a string of correspondence on this topic a bit further down this forum.
The two plungers that you refer to can be used for bleeding the brakes. Two people are needed.
However, it might be wishful thinking that a change in brake fluid will fix the sponginess that you are getting.
At worst you might have to have your master cylinder resleeved in stainless and new rubbers fitted. Also check whether there is any fluid leaking from the calipers. If so, take them all off and have them resleeved and fitted with new seals.
As you will see from my comments in the other thread, eventually I had to do that to get my brakes right.
Good luck.
Brian.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #2 on: 23 October, 2016, 11:44:24 AM »

Hi Brian

Could you put a tech article in VL on how Flavia brakes, their issues, and how to bleed etc.

This could be very interesting to the increasing number of Flavias that are getting back on the road (and those also already on the road like Bob's lovely coupe).

I am currently restoring a Vignale Inezione so have more than a passing interest in seeing your experience in print!

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
bobhenry999
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« Reply #3 on: 23 October, 2016, 02:44:05 PM »

Brian/Tim,

I think you are quite right about the master cylinder, as today the pedal went straight to the floor, so I am abandoning the bleeding and am going down now to remove the master cylinder.

Where can I get a repair kit, Omicron ? And do I have to get it re-sleeved ?

Bob
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Dave Gee
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« Reply #4 on: 23 October, 2016, 04:33:32 PM »


Bob
If you haven't looked at the brakes for a long time it would be worth taking the opportunity too overhaul the whole brake mechanism, especially the flexibles which tend to get neglected. Soak the bleed nipples in penetrating oil. It's very easy to break these. Make sure you use an hexagonal, deep throated socket and ease them off gently.

Regarding new parts - it's worth looking on the Italian Ebay. Someone there is producing a new master cylinder around 400 euros and you can also buy the seals there at a reasonable price. Failing that, Cavallito is very good and responds well to emails.

Hope this helps.

Dave
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lancialulu
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« Reply #5 on: 23 October, 2016, 05:06:20 PM »

Am I right in thinking, while the calipers etc are Dunlop, the master cylinder and servo are other manufacture. For the servo there is another kit car market solution but what about the master cylinder??
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
bobhenry999
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« Reply #6 on: 23 October, 2016, 07:42:14 PM »

Tim,
Not sure, so am going to take it to Past Parts in Sudbury and see if they can sort it out, and will report back.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #7 on: 23 October, 2016, 07:46:15 PM »

Tim,
Not sure, so am going to take it to Past Parts in Sudbury and see if they can sort it out, and will report back.

It will be wonderful if they could but my money is you are going to have to travel a bit further.......
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
chriswgawne
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« Reply #8 on: 24 October, 2016, 09:38:40 AM »

I view brakes in a similar way to tyres in the sense that their condition and efficiency are critical to the safety of the vehicle and of paramount importance.
Filthy dark discoloured brake fluid is not just old fluid - it is usually a sign of either rubber seal deterioration or corrosion in the system and so is a good indication of the system needing a thorough inspection and overhaul.
So, if the vehicle in question hasn't had a proper brake overhaul for a number of years then a full inspection and overhaul is definitely due.
Flexible hoses collapse over time (I reckon 15 years max before degradation) and original Dunlop wheel cylinders only have a certain life before corrosion sets in. Also if the vehicles brakes are only used occasionally and sparingly I find the wheel cylinders tend to be sluggish and lose some efficiency.
Regarding brake master cylinders, I tend to always try to fit new ones in a major overhaul, particularly if I don't know how long the cylinder has been on the car. To re-seal seems to me to be a false economy and certainly I have had problems with re-sealing original Aurelia master cylinders over the years resulting in the brakes NOT releasing or being lazy when pedal pressure is removed. Omicron told me on one occasion that this was almost certainly due to the very highly polished inner surface having degraded even though it all looked and felt OK.
I know that the remote servos fitted to Flavias and some Fulvias can be a problem to find replacements for but as they are small internal diameter, resealing has always worked for me.
As a small aside, I personally don't agree with the MOT test exemptions because my MOT test garage always remarked on the appearance of the brake fluid in our cars when tested as they felt it was a small but significant indication of how well the owner was doing the regular maintenance!
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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lancianut666
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Slow but rough


« Reply #9 on: 24 October, 2016, 03:28:05 PM »

check this website out
http://www.oldlanciaspares.com/873-lancia-FLAVIA-ricambio-pompa-freni-completa.php

will be pricey

Clarkey
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Fulvia Coupe S2 Flavia Coupe 1967 1.8 Kugelfischer Prisma 1.6 carb Y10 Fila Y10 Touring Dedra 1.8 Dedra 2.0 Turbo Appia S1
bobhenry999
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« Reply #10 on: 24 October, 2016, 09:06:31 PM »

Clarkey,

Thanks for that, I have e-mailed asking for the price.

In the meantime, I took mine to Past Parts in Bury St Edmunds today, and they seemed confident that they could sort it out and re-sleeve it if necessary, so I await their call and will update you all when I hear from them.

Bob
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bobhenry999
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« Reply #11 on: 25 October, 2016, 09:06:55 PM »

Chaps,

Latest update.

Cavallito wanted Euro500 plus postage for the one they have.

Past parts are going to repair mine for 135 if it just needs honing, and 175 it it needs re-sleeving.

Will let you know how it goes, thanks for all your advice and help.

Bob
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lancialulu
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« Reply #12 on: 26 October, 2016, 07:41:00 AM »

That is a result and good find. I have logged them for potential dunlop issues in the future.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
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