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Author Topic: '72 Fulvia Sport play in nearside steering pivot point  (Read 2874 times)
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kevbo
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« on: 03 August, 2016, 07:08:28 PM »

My car failed its MOT today, the nearside 'steering pivot point has excessive play'.  I can see with the wheel off when I turn the calliper & disc that the inner ball joint & idler arm moves moves with a clunk i.e. there is some vertical movement not a smooth rotation.  My question is do you think it's a problem with both the track rod end (inner) and idler arm unit? The outer track rod end joint on the near side seems fine.  Certainly looks like I've got to replace the inner ball joint since the rubber boot isn't sitting right at all.

Any advice would be appreciated. 

The car also failed on headlight beams kicking up to offside I've LHD units I was told.  Thanks to ELizabeth at Omicron I've discovered my headlamps have a slider that allows for driving on the right or driving on the left.  So an easy fix!  To add insult though when I got the car home I also found that my bonnet release cable had been snapped by the tester! 
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nistri
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« Reply #1 on: 04 August, 2016, 06:31:26 AM »

It is likely that the bushes inside the idler box are worn out, the track rod ends could also be damaged. With the help of someone lese moving slightly the steering wheel, check with your hands on the various components where the play is most felt. Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
lancialulu
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« Reply #2 on: 04 August, 2016, 07:47:46 AM »

These later idler boxes had some sort of nylon bushes instead of bronze and wear badly. They exhibit a nasty habit of vearing the car off course when the driver lifts off at speed (legal limit).
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
kevbo
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« Reply #3 on: 04 August, 2016, 03:48:54 PM »

Many thanks both of you.  Certainly the inner joint on the nearside outer track rod needs replacing.  Is it advisable to take the whole rod off the car or can the inner joint be replaced with the rod remaining attached at the outer joint?  Access looks a bit tight at the idler arm end.
Kevin
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nistri
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« Reply #4 on: 05 August, 2016, 05:57:49 AM »

I always remove the entire track rod: it is then simple to replace the track rod ends. Access at the idler box end is tight but with a good ball-joint separator it is not difficult. Opening the idler box needs a special tool. Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
kevbo
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« Reply #5 on: 05 August, 2016, 07:26:14 PM »

Thanks Andrea.  Is the special tool for the idler arm something that can be made up or something readily available modified to work? 
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lancialulu
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« Reply #6 on: 05 August, 2016, 08:22:52 PM »

glorified C spanner one end. Mighty puller required after getting nut off at the other end.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
davidwheeler
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« Reply #7 on: 06 August, 2016, 08:14:47 AM »

Bushes from Omicron, of course!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
lancialulu
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« Reply #8 on: 06 August, 2016, 09:02:17 AM »

Bushes from Omicron, of course!
Are these Pre machined??? My local engineering shop sourced some IVECO camshaft bearings of the correct I/d and O/d but did not keep the part number....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
kevbo
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Posts: 74


« Reply #9 on: 06 August, 2016, 08:25:24 PM »

Many thanks everyone, sound like I've got a bit of work to do!
K
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kevbo
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« Reply #10 on: 07 September, 2016, 01:43:40 PM »

Hi all,
I've eventually managed to get the outer ball joint separated with my old pickle fork separator.  Do people use something a bit more sophisticated for the inner?  As Andrea advises is a good separator one of those screw in ones?

There's definitely some play at the idler arm, but I'm not sure what good is.  So sorry to ask a dumb question but would up and down play at the idler arm cause a fail at an mot?
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lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 07 September, 2016, 05:07:10 PM »

you can adjust up down just not side to side. Take it off and have new bushes fitted and if it hasnt go a grease nipple (unlikely) then fit one of those too.

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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
kevbo
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Member
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Posts: 74


« Reply #12 on: 08 September, 2016, 08:43:11 AM »

Thanks for that, I didn't want to split the ball joint on the centre arm and looking at the workshop manual I should be able to get the big nut off and leave the arm and joint in position.  The manual talks about a puller to remove the steering idler arm, do I need a puller, what do people use?
Many thanks
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lancialulu
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« Reply #13 on: 08 September, 2016, 09:01:29 AM »

Thanks for that, I didn't want to split the ball joint on the centre arm and looking at the workshop manual I should be able to get the big nut off and leave the arm and joint in position.  The manual talks about a puller to remove the steering idler arm, do I need a puller, what do people use?
Many thanks

the arm is on very tight. You may be lucky but I just about managed to undo the nut but as the arm is a splined cone you need a good (v good) puller and I doubt you could do this in situ. I took mine to an engineering shop where it came off with difficulty.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
kevbo
Lapsed
Member
****
Posts: 74


« Reply #14 on: 08 September, 2016, 09:34:22 AM »

Many thanks, so the whole idler unit probably has to come out which means separating the joint on the centre rod.  There's a little up and down play at the arm so may try and adjust and see if there's any improvement. 
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