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Author Topic: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again  (Read 40699 times)
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tzf60
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« Reply #210 on: 06 November, 2017, 01:38:22 PM »

This is vital information, and presented brilliantly. The photographs explain the procedures so well.....!!!
Worth printing/laminating for the garage wall!
 
Thanks all!
Tim
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1939 Series 1 Aprilia undergoing very slow restoration.....
 
Previous Lancias: 1979 Beta Sedan 2000, 1982 Delta 1500, 1988 Delta 1.3, 1992 Dedra 1.8ie
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #211 on: 06 November, 2017, 06:54:55 PM »

Thanks Tim !

There is, I think, an error on the previous post, so I have removed it and will update once I have checked a couple of things - I don't want to mis-lead !

Re engine numbering, maybe its a pre/post war thing .... Appia and Fulvia are both staggered, I can't remember how Aurelias/Flaminias  are done , but I think they are staggered as well - I am sure someone will enlighten us !


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
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« Reply #212 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:37:16 PM »

I reviewed this and have made a couple of minor adjustments ....but it is all to do with an odd numbering system and an "error" in the original literature.

Noel in Australia has written it up slightly differently, so please look at his excellent website as well

Plus re-reading the Forum pages, "Welleyes" identified a similar "problem" with numbering in Oct 2016, which was discussed by several people at the time

My version , and it works for me :

-------------------------------------------------//---------------------------------------------

I don't know if this has been written up recently , and I'm sure that other Aprilia owners may have a different way of doing it, but here is how I set the valve timing from scratch.

Aprilias have a slightly odd cylinder numbering system, starting with #1 nearest the rad, by the carb, on the off-side (but second back from the front) and then going around the head anti-clockwise - not staggered with distance from the rad

The firing order follows this ie 1,2,3,4

Additional confusion maybe caused because some distributor caps are marked up as firing 1,3,4,2 - presumably later fitments from other cars. I have some caps that just have #1 marked - So care need when fitting plug leads !

This confusion may have been compounded because the original literature (UK and French shown here) suggested that the firing order is 2,1,3,4 !! - but this isn't possible unless the distributor does a kind of hop-scotch .....

So , I find that the easiest thing to do is imagine that #1 is the piston nearest the radiator and then number anti-clockwise, because this leaves both #1 (near rad) & #3 (back off-side, carb side) at TDC when the -0- mark lines up with the 1/3 on the crankcase.

So now:
1/ Set both tappets on #1 at 0.45 mm
2/ With dowel removed , rotate engine to TDC ie "0" tooth to 1/3 mark on crankcase (ie pistons 1 & 3 at TDC)
3/ Ensure rotor arm pointing to #3 position (not 3 on the cap - see above)
4/ Rotate camshaft so that #1 EX valve closes and IN opens - with the tappet set at this precise gap, there is less than half a flywheel-tooth of movement between one tappet and the other moving
5/ Fit the dowel in the to the closest aligned hole - vernier setup so very accurate, nb the dowel has an internal thread for easy removal
6/ Tighten the front camchain nut ensuring that the holes in the washer line up with the dowel
7/ Reset all the tappets to 0.25 mm (IN & EX)

I then rotate the engine a few times and then check it all again

I modified an old screwdriver to rotate the tappet and used an 11 mm brake spanner for the nut - less risk of damage to the nuts


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #213 on: 08 November, 2017, 10:22:40 PM »

More progress while I'm waiting for the rest of the leaves to fall off the vines and I can start pruning ....

Dog has prepped and primed some of the panels and will be starting on the main body this coming week, but he has a long-term job painting one of the luxury, canal hotel barges and will only have a day a week for the next couple of months, unless it rains ...

Plus I collected the new leather interior in the furgoncino this morning, it is beautiful and just needs sitting on !

Finally, I keep plugging away at various bits and pieces. I have made up a new petrol pipe between the new pump and carb ( copper pipe and soldered banjos), stripped and cleaned the filter and started rebuilding the waterpump.

A couple of pictures to keep you up to date, more later !


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
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« Reply #214 on: 08 November, 2017, 11:11:32 PM »

Upholstery in the back of the Furgoncino looks slightly disreputable. If the van's a rocking don't come knocking.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #215 on: 09 November, 2017, 08:34:43 AM »

Is there another anchor for that fuel pipe to kill any harmonic vibration on the long length? It is similar to the B12 arrangement which anchored on the head as it comes up from the pump....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
stanley sweet
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« Reply #216 on: 09 November, 2017, 05:16:15 PM »

A Ken Dodd word - 'Plumptious' - came to mind when I saw those lovely seats.
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
ben
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« Reply #217 on: 10 November, 2017, 12:19:17 AM »

  I think I may have said this all before but my view on the Aprilia firing order confusion is that the numbers on the rocker cover in the handbook are not meant to be the cylinder numbers but are the firing order sequence.
  The cylinder numbers are the same as the numbers on the pistons and big-end caps etc that is to say no 1 is at the front and 2,3,and 4 follow sequentially as you move back along the engine which is the same as any straight four cylinder engine.
  Quite why Vincenzo chose to start the firing order sequence indicators at cylinder no 2 I do not know but it may be because that cylinder is the nearest to the distributor. Anyway as the numbers are only meant to indicate the firing sequence it does not matter where you start.
  Things do still get confusing however because these sequence numbers are then used as labels on the flywheel window timing mark, 1/3 as shown in Simon's excellent photo's.

  It follows from this interpretation of the handbook data that the sequence 2 1 3 4 (which is of course exactly the same sequence as the more familiar 1 3 4 2 ) refers to the traditional cylinder numbers as defined above.
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #218 on: 15 November, 2017, 09:19:11 PM »

Tim, as far as I am aware, there isn't an additional support on an early set up, however on my 2nd series there is an extra bracket on the side of the radiator, so maybe it was a (potential) problem - bit like the extra support for the top of the rad to rocker cover

Thanks for your comments Ben, I still get confused when reading original data because so much of it is contradictory - the French write up for the Ardennes doesn't help clarify either !

Water pump - I have been waiting on some bits, namely new bearing and graphite string for packing the seal - very old-school.

I have fitted a 'sealed' bearing and 3mm square packing cord, made sure the compressor spring and washer slide properly so pressure is placed on the seal etc etc. There is a lot of boring detail in setting up an Aprilia pump, so I hope it doesn't leak

The keen Aprilia-detail-spotters will have noticed that I have used a second series water pump body , only because I don't have any new 1st series ones , I have just blanked off the unused waterways with appropriate "Lancia" stamped plugs !

Radiator and dynamo next .....


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
davidwheeler
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« Reply #219 on: 17 November, 2017, 05:17:42 PM »

I hereby confess that I have just fitted a couple of modern lip seals to my pump.  They are invisible and work perfectly!.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #220 on: 17 November, 2017, 06:24:02 PM »

David - did you find a standard size or machine the piece ?

If standard , what size did you use and where did they come from, because if I am honest I would have done the same if it meant doing it without machine-work

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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
davidwheeler
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« Reply #221 on: 18 November, 2017, 09:22:14 AM »


1 x 8x18x6mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal with Garter Spring R21 / SC
1.89
1.89
2 x 8x15x5mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal Springless Design R23 / TC
1.89
3.78
from https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/
by return of post pretty well.  May take a little longer to France or you could use your own local supplier.  No machining required.   I cannot quite remember if I used them all but certainly at least one goes in the housing for the original seal and is held in by the screw cap, the small one I guess.  A look at the rotted pump will tell you!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #222 on: 05 February, 2018, 06:10:38 PM »

Even though I haven't posted for a while things are progressing , albeit slowly !

Dog has done a significant amount of prep on the platform, louvres and bonnet and they are nearly ready for primer. The wings have all been straightened and had various dings redressed, but there is no hurry on this because I need to get the Fulvia out of the way before the platform can come back

Today the second batch of chrome came back - very shiny, afterwards anyway. The grill flutes have had a lot of work done and they look great, need to mask and paint the recesses next. The chromers have not overdone the initial polishing and all the batch numbers are still visible - which is nice! Plus they masked the threads, where asked, so hopefully I won't have problems refitting ( mainly the gear lever)

Expensive, but not outrageous !


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
tzf60
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« Reply #223 on: 06 February, 2018, 02:34:38 PM »

Wow!!! The chroming turned out very well, Simon! The stamped numbers are clear to see. Was there any difficulty chroming the bonnet handles?
 
Regards,
Tim
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1939 Series 1 Aprilia undergoing very slow restoration.....
 
Previous Lancias: 1979 Beta Sedan 2000, 1982 Delta 1500, 1988 Delta 1.3, 1992 Dedra 1.8ie
Parisien
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« Reply #224 on: 06 February, 2018, 04:00:23 PM »

Shiny bits set it all off Simon, you're steaming along, brilliant as always.


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