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Author Topic: Hub upright (Swivel) tools for removal  (Read 5654 times)
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Angle Grinder
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« on: 15 May, 2016, 12:02:57 PM »

I need to change a front wheel bearing and have decided to leave this heavy job to the nice people at Omicron, but in order to do this I need to remove the hub upright as it is a lot cheaper to send a hub upright from here to Norfolk than it is to drive the whole car.  Smiley

I know I will need the tool for restraining the leaf spring and I'll need the 6 tooth tool for removing the hub nut. BUT, when I look at the workshop manual it makes reference to a puller and screw tool that are used for extracting and re-assembling the drive shaft from the hub.

The tool numbers given are Puller 8052010 and Screw 8052176 (which I gather is screwed into the threaded "female" outer end of the drive shaft.

Are these tools really necessary? I hoped the shaft would slide in and out of the hub with relative ease?

Also, what is the torque setting for the hub nut? I can't find this detailed in my workshop manual, but know that it has to be hefty.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
the.cern
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« Reply #1 on: 15 May, 2016, 12:33:03 PM »

Good luck Mike, I hope all the dismantling goes smoothly. Please post some photographs of the action!!!

                        Andy
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Sarah Heath-Brook
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« Reply #2 on: 15 May, 2016, 02:46:13 PM »

Personally I would undo the hub nut (very tight - need a long lever and hold tool hard onto the hub) and the inboard driveshaft cv joint to gearbox and remove the drive shaft. You only need a standard puller working in reverse to stat the push out of the drive shaft. Then I would use a bottle jack (screw preferably) And put this between the spring and subframe. Then jack the spring up a bit. Using a "splitting fork" this separates the ball joints but you will need to replace the rubber covers (Omicron had these). Also look at the ball joints with no load on as they may need replacing.
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Dave Gee
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« Reply #3 on: 15 May, 2016, 08:57:55 PM »

I cannot understand why, when having done all the hard work, and removed the hub, you want to send it away to have the bearing put in. A local garage with a press would easily push it out for you, and replace it, which could be a much cheaper option for you.

Best wishes
Dave
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Angle Grinder
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« Reply #4 on: 15 May, 2016, 10:51:08 PM »

Because a local garage will not have the special tool for removing that massive retaining nut on the inside of the Hub and I don't trust a novice garage to torque the retaining nut up correctly to the massive levels required by Lancia. I don't want to go through all this hassle to have a bearing with run out because somebody didn't know what they were doing. Rather leave it to the experienced hands of Omicron.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Dave Gee
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« Reply #5 on: 16 May, 2016, 06:51:06 PM »

I believe the tools are available through the Lancia Club (Tim Heath). If not, the Flavia Consortium has a set it lends out for just this purpose. The large retaining nut locates on the outer race of the bearing. This in no way affects the performance of the bearing as it literally holds the bearing in position. In my view it does not need a massive torque on it. A spring clip then prevents this nut from coming loose. The more important nut is the one that holds the drive shaft in position as this puts the preload on the bearing. If you are not fitting a new nut I would recommend that you swapped the nuts from side to side, so that when you bend the tab part over, you use a new part of the tab ring. If you are anywhere near jct 22 of the M1, I would be glad to push the bearings out for you and the new ones in.

Best wishes
Dave
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vigzag
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« Reply #6 on: 16 May, 2016, 08:57:09 PM »

Front wheel bearing large retaining nut torque i.e. outer race into hub = 300 Nm
Front wheel bearing driveshaft nut torque i.e. bearing inner race = 200 Nm increasing to 300 Nm for 2000s

The former needs to be this tight to prevent the bearing spinning in the hub upright which has been seen on many cars due to the nut not being tightened correctly i.e. not providing enough clamping load. Similarly the hub nut needs to be tight to prevent the bearing spinning on hub itself.
« Last Edit: 16 May, 2016, 09:17:01 PM by vigzag » Logged

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lancialulu
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« Reply #7 on: 17 May, 2016, 08:51:11 AM »

Tools are available for the front hub but I am away till end on May.

I thought the consortium also had these tools.

As an aside I had found it very hard to get the inner tight and had always gone to my local engineering shop for a few quid. Then I realised I could tighten it in the car using the car as a vice.....

Tim
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1955 Aurelia B12
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1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
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« Reply #8 on: 17 May, 2016, 11:15:41 AM »

I have had to put on the hub tool, long crowbar and driven car to undo this nut on my 2000.
Brian
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Brian Hands


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« Reply #9 on: 18 May, 2016, 06:38:45 AM »

I have had to put on the hub tool, long crowbar and driven car to undo this nut on my 2000.
Brian

Brian, that is extreme!!! It obviously worked and that is what matters!!

                                      Andy
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alan284flavia
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« Reply #10 on: 11 June, 2016, 07:51:01 PM »

I had to buy the tool from Omicron, not cheap but worked well. Bob Adamson had to make a tool to remove the inner nut. Torques are seriously high! I have a home made tool to clamp the spring, was made for Fulvia but does Flavia as well. My Flavia 2000 may differ from your 1800. You are welcome to borrow the tools but I am in Perth quite a distance unless you happen to be nearby sometime. I am in Glasgow sometimes but usually at short notice.
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Angle Grinder
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« Reply #11 on: 12 June, 2016, 08:23:21 PM »

Thanks for the offer Alan. I have arranged to hire the driveshaft nut tool from Omicron, but it is out on loan at the moment. My Flavia might be different from your 2000HF  in that I have the 6 tooth driveshaft nut and I think they had maybe changed to 3 tooth nuts for the 2000 series.

I've also hired the spring retaining "U"clamp tool from the wonderful people at the Flavia Consortium... God bless em!

What I need to do now is buy some length of sturdy metal rod to slip on the end of the tool (which should be like the one pictured below) so that my puny frame can exert the necessary torque to get the drive shaft not off and on.


* images.jpg (5.45 KB, 259x194 - viewed 345 times.)
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
lancialulu
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« Reply #12 on: 12 June, 2016, 08:39:44 PM »

Thanks for the offer Alan. I have arranged to hire the driveshaft nut tool from Omicron, but it is out on loan at the moment. My Flavia might be different from your 2000HF  in that I have the 6 tooth driveshaft nut and I think they had maybe changed to 3 tooth nuts for the 2000 series.

I've also hired the spring retaining "U"clamp tool from the wonderful people at the Flavia Consortium... God bless em!

What I need to do now is buy some length of sturdy metal rod to slip on the end of the tool (which should be like the one pictured below) so that my puny frame can exert the necessary torque to get the drive shaft not off and on.
scafold pole or large dia old fashioned water pipe works well as does an old school washing line pole....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Angle Grinder
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« Reply #13 on: 13 June, 2016, 07:49:37 PM »

Unfortunately, none of these items are to hand , but you might see me foraging on a building site somewhere.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Angle Grinder
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« Reply #14 on: 21 June, 2016, 08:35:26 PM »

So after a lot of fighting to split the top ball joint (which I replaced last year and must have been taking too many vitamins when I torqued it up) I finally got the hub upright off the car. That's the good news, the bad news is that the free play in my NSF wheel was mainly down to wear in the hub itself. The hub was so loose in the bearing that the whole hub and disc assembly fell off when I pulled out the driveshaft. The hub has worn so much that there is a raised ridge in the middle that corresponds to the groove in the bearing.

By the way, is it theoretically possible to extract the drive shaft from the hub without first splitting the top ball joint? With the Ball joints still attached, I couldn't work out any way to get the inner CV joint far enough into the engine bay to allow the outer CV to clear the hub.

More importantly, does anyone have a front wheel hub or a hub assembly that I could buy?
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
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