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Author Topic: Fuel Starvation  (Read 6135 times)
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fay66
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« Reply #30 on: 01 April, 2016, 09:01:09 AM »

Roger,

Your'e not the first one to suggest it may be electrically related.

Brian,

I had a Malpassi filter King fitted a couple of weeks back at the same time as the new pump.

Hoping to know more about the problem tomorrow. Will keep all posted of developments.

Cheers,

Paul.

Ah! not that then Sad

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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roddy
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« Reply #31 on: 01 April, 2016, 03:16:51 PM »

Hello Paul

After all the work you have done replacing/checking the fuel delivery side, perhaps the problem could be ignition?  Was the engine pulling hard at higher revs when power dropped?  If so, could be the coil is failing.  Both the condenser (as Tim suggests) and coil are not very expensive items to replace, and with no knowledge of their prior history, perhaps worth a try. You are just having teething problems, as with any 'new' car.  Keep persevering, and confidence will return.

Regards - Roddy 
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Roddy Young
Dunfermline, Fife

1970 Fulvia Sport S1 1.3S
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
Paul Greenway
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« Reply #32 on: 02 April, 2016, 10:24:45 AM »

Hello Paul

After all the work you have done replacing/checking the fuel delivery side, perhaps the problem could be ignition?  Was the engine pulling hard at higher revs when power dropped?  If so, could be the coil is failing.  Both the condenser (as Tim suggests) and coil are not very expensive items to replace, and with no knowledge of their prior history, perhaps worth a try. You are just having teething problems, as with any 'new' car.  Keep persevering, and confidence will return.

Regards - Roddy 

Roddy,

The condenser and points were exchanged during the service so it could be the coil on the way out, but as you say no matter what it is, it will get resolved one way or another and will be back on form before the GNW.

Cheers,

Paul
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1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
2012 Delta 3 2.0 Multi-jet

Previous Lancia - 78 Monte Carlo, 83 HPE VX, 88 integrale, 89 Delta GTie, 90 Y10GTie, 90 Dedra 2.0ieSE, 91 Delta HF Turbo, 91 integrale 16v, 09 Thesis Sportiva Comf
rogerelias
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MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #33 on: 02 April, 2016, 12:29:22 PM »

Hi Paul, re points and condenser were changed, has the condenser been replaced with 1600 one ,as the 1300 one is different, they have different Micro farads value, and if not right can cause the points to burn and become pitted,and can cause problems. Just a thought Cheers Roger
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FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
Paul Greenway
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« Reply #34 on: 02 April, 2016, 01:01:51 PM »

Hi Paul, re points and condenser were changed, has the condenser been replaced with 1600 one ,as the 1300 one is different, they have different Micro farads value, and if not right can cause the points to burn and become pitted,and can cause problems. Just a thought Cheers Roger
Thanks Roger, message passed on just in case.
Don't want to leave any stone unturned cos it needs to be right when it comes back this time.
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1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
2012 Delta 3 2.0 Multi-jet

Previous Lancia - 78 Monte Carlo, 83 HPE VX, 88 integrale, 89 Delta GTie, 90 Y10GTie, 90 Dedra 2.0ieSE, 91 Delta HF Turbo, 91 integrale 16v, 09 Thesis Sportiva Comf
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« Reply #35 on: 03 April, 2016, 10:29:57 AM »

Hi Paul , I've been following your thread with interest. I am in Ormskirk, not that far away from you, and have been looking for someone/somewhere in this area to do mechanical work on my Series 2 Coupe. Does the friend that you refer to have a business and does he work on other people's cars?
Cheers, Norm
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Paul Greenway
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« Reply #36 on: 03 April, 2016, 11:59:44 AM »

Hi Paul , I've been following your thread with interest. I am in Ormskirk, not that far away from you, and have been looking for someone/somewhere in this area to do mechanical work on my Series 2 Coupe. Does the friend that you refer to have a business and does he work on other people's cars?
Cheers, Norm

Hi Norman,

My friend does have a garage business, but he generally specialises in modern's and mainly German modern's at that, however he has many friends and contacts, one business in particular specialises in older vehicles setting up carbs/ tuning/ servicing/ rolling road testing and they love tinkering with these cars to make them right. This garage set my Fulvia up so much so differently from how it ran previously, it was like a new car until this latest hiccup which they have assured me through my friend that they will resolve one way or another.

I deal directly with my friend who invoiced me for all the work carried out by his 'sub contractor', but am sure (they are based in Westhoughton) they would be able to look at your car- whether you get mates rates or not I don't know. What I can do is ask my friend to do with your car what he did with mine i.e. drop it off with him and he will organise the work through his friend.

Please see dyno graph below for details of the garage that actually undertook the work & currently have my car.

Cheers,

Paul


* Dyno Reading 2.JPG (893.54 KB, 1536x2048 - viewed 110 times.)
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1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
2012 Delta 3 2.0 Multi-jet

Previous Lancia - 78 Monte Carlo, 83 HPE VX, 88 integrale, 89 Delta GTie, 90 Y10GTie, 90 Dedra 2.0ieSE, 91 Delta HF Turbo, 91 integrale 16v, 09 Thesis Sportiva Comf
roddy
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« Reply #37 on: 03 April, 2016, 02:18:11 PM »

Hello Paul.  I know I have mentioned it before, but loosing power under load IS often fuel starvation.  OR can be electrical as this thread is exploring.  However, if the flexible fuel lines are rubber, and not the original Cavis type, it could be the the inner walls are collapsing slightly if the rubber has gone soft, and causing temporary partial blockage when the pump is sucking at its hardest.  The external appearance of the fuel line may look normal, but if compressing easily between fingers, is likely to be at fault.  Remember the short flexible pipe from the tank to the metal pipe on the floor-pan has fuel in it all the time, and I am not sure how modern fuels and rubber react over a length of time.  The factory idea of having tensioning springs to hold the lines on to unions, instead of Jubilee type clips, has the benefit as the plastic pipe heats up and gaps may open, the clip compresses and grips it all in tighter.

Regards - Roddy
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Roddy Young
Dunfermline, Fife

1970 Fulvia Sport S1 1.3S
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
nthomas1
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« Reply #38 on: 04 April, 2016, 11:51:35 AM »

Hi Paul , I've been following your thread with interest. I am in Ormskirk, not that far away from you, and have been looking for someone/somewhere in this area to do mechanical work on my Series 2 Coupe. Does the friend that you refer to have a business and does he work on other people's cars?
Cheers, Norm

Hi Norman,

My friend does have a garage business, but he generally specialises in modern's and mainly German modern's at that, however he has many friends and contacts, one business in particular specialises in older vehicles setting up carbs/ tuning/ servicing/ rolling road testing and they love tinkering with these cars to make them right. This garage set my Fulvia up so much so differently from how it ran previously, it was like a new car until this latest hiccup which they have assured me through my friend that they will resolve one way or another.

I deal directly with my friend who invoiced me for all the work carried out by his 'sub contractor', but am sure (they are based in Westhoughton) they would be able to look at your car- whether you get mates rates or not I don't know. What I can do is ask my friend to do with your car what he did with mine i.e. drop it off with him and he will organise the work through his friend.

Please see dyno graph below for details of the garage that actually undertook the work & currently have my car.

Cheers,

Paul


Thanks Paul.  I'm concentrating on bodywork and trim at the moment but will contact you again later in the year for an introduction when I get back to the mechanicals.  Cheers, Norm
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
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« Reply #39 on: 05 April, 2016, 02:23:47 PM »

Hi Paul,
I agree with Roddy that it sounds like a classic fuel starvation problem of collapsed hoses under high demand, or possibly a non vented fuel cap causing a vacuum in the tank. However the length of time before it happens also suggests a coil breakdown when hot and then ok again once cooled. A common problem we have, along with all the latest reproduction ignition components being of dubious quality/origin, are rotor arms that have a riveted brass segment. When hot, the rivet short circuits to the distributor shaft, causing a loss of spark. They cool down and all is well for a while. Try and ensure anything you fit is as good a quality as you can get, or OE equipment if possible but obviously difficult these days.
John
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« Reply #40 on: 07 April, 2016, 08:20:33 PM »


Car has been returned, it seems to run fine again- needs a long run to confirm.

More debris was found in the fuel lines, and although the Malpassi fuel filter was added to supplement the small original, the latter has been replaced with a larger version so now running two. The fuel lines were checked over and according to the mechanic are fine and relatively new. The whole system was flushed again, carbs were adjusted and ignition set up differently. Full electric system was tested as was fuel pressure and found to be spot on. Car was  put on rolling road again and set up.

Told to keep fuel level topped up above half so just filled up with Shell V-Power and a capful of additive and now looking forward to the weekend.
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1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
2012 Delta 3 2.0 Multi-jet

Previous Lancia - 78 Monte Carlo, 83 HPE VX, 88 integrale, 89 Delta GTie, 90 Y10GTie, 90 Dedra 2.0ieSE, 91 Delta HF Turbo, 91 integrale 16v, 09 Thesis Sportiva Comf
stanley sweet
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« Reply #41 on: 08 April, 2016, 02:17:25 PM »

There's a certain type of Fulvia that doesn't need lead replacement but I can't remember if it's the 1600's or Series 1? I'm sure there's one that has hardened valve seats already fitted?
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
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« Reply #42 on: 08 April, 2016, 03:11:02 PM »

1600s do not need lead replacement (Omicron).   I wonder if the quality of the fuel is an issue though.  Obviously they need 96+octane but is Tesco's 99 octane better or worse than Esso's 97?    I am told that branded diesel fuel is markedly superior to supermarket fuel...

Incidentally, here is the power curve according to Lancia.


* 818.540 power curve.png (164.21 KB, 274x400 - viewed 214 times.)
« Last Edit: 08 April, 2016, 03:14:15 PM by davidwheeler » Logged

David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
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« Reply #43 on: 14 April, 2016, 03:51:22 PM »

Incidentally, I have incresed my intermediate jets to 60 with a considerable improvement.  The original is 50 with which I had a huge hole between 1000 and 2500 rpm.  Going up to 55s partially filled it but it is much better with the 60s (available from Italy via EBay)  I still wonder now about increasing the main jets...  Be interested to hear how you got on at the weekend.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
Paul Greenway
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« Reply #44 on: 14 April, 2016, 04:06:17 PM »

Incidentally, I have incresed my intermediate jets to 60 with a considerable improvement.  The original is 50 with which I had a huge hole between 1000 and 2500 rpm.  Going up to 55s partially filled it but it is much better with the 60s (available from Italy via EBay)  I still wonder now about increasing the main jets...  Be interested to hear how you got on at the weekend.

Hi David,

Took car out over the tops, around town, M-way blast and no concerns, power appears fine across the board. The only issue is me- the driver, using a RHD automatic diesel BMW for 800 miles a week then getting into a LHD Fulvia takes a bit of getting used too- I tend to rev it too much and the gearbox is not the easiest at first, especially with the boys in the back where I pull the seat slightly too far forward  so I am not at my most comfortable- Just excuses really!

Cheers,

Paul
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1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
2012 Delta 3 2.0 Multi-jet

Previous Lancia - 78 Monte Carlo, 83 HPE VX, 88 integrale, 89 Delta GTie, 90 Y10GTie, 90 Dedra 2.0ieSE, 91 Delta HF Turbo, 91 integrale 16v, 09 Thesis Sportiva Comf
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