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Author Topic: Fulvia fuel pump priming issues  (Read 6111 times)
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John B
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« Reply #15 on: 14 November, 2015, 08:21:09 AM »

After more than a month of inactivity with my Appia and bearing in mind all the posts regarding battery draining and starter motor churning when starting a car without an electric fuel pump I tried something different when starting it yesterday.

A  2 or 3 second spray of Bradex Easy Start into the air filter, no choke, start the car.....engine immediately started and ran for perhaps 1 or 2 seconds. Repeated procedure and again engine ran for 1 or 2 seconds.
Then used choke and started as normal, engine fired up after just a few seconds, I think the few seconds of running with the Easy Start spray equates to something like 30 seconds of battery draining and starter motor churning.

Anyone see any problems with this method?
« Last Edit: 14 November, 2015, 08:26:21 AM by John B » Logged

1961 Appia S3
1969 Fiat 850 Special
neil-yaj396
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« Reply #16 on: 14 November, 2015, 08:58:01 AM »

Isn't Bradex a bit of a last resort thing? I thought it could cause damage to valves etc. if over used?
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1979 1300 Beta Coupe, 2014 Ypsilon 1.2 S Series Momo
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« Reply #17 on: 14 November, 2015, 11:25:34 AM »

With many years of starting reluctant vehicles in winter with Easy Start, or it's Australian Equivalent, 'Start You orphan' in my opinion it's much too volatile to be used on a permanent basis, after about 10 years of experience of using an electric pump for priming only, I know what I'd sooner do.
Don't really know why but my garage fitted it close to the fuel tank of my series 1 2c, rather than under the bonnet, unlike many it's not a Facet, I'm not sure of the make but it's been reliable.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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the.cern
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« Reply #18 on: 14 November, 2015, 11:33:26 AM »

The discussion about the advisability of using easy start type products has been rumbling on for a long time. Personally I am with Brian on this, an electric pump is much more gentle on the engine than these products ..... but they do still have their place in the toolkit, just not the weapon of first choice!!!

Brian, with regard to pump location, I understand fuel pumps may be either pushers or pullers. I presume yours is a pusher, hence located adjacent to the tank. So long as it works, that is ok.

                               Andy

     
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stanley sweet
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WWW
« Reply #19 on: 16 November, 2015, 10:03:24 AM »

A long time ago I read that if you use Easy Start type products all the time the engine comes to rely on them. I'm not sure how an inanimate object can develop a memory but there you are. I've never looked back since fitting an electric pump to the Fulvia. Instant starting every time.
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
lancialulu
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« Reply #20 on: 16 November, 2015, 10:24:17 AM »

I virtually always resurrect my Ducati Monster in April after a winter's lie in with easy start, as the cranking required to get the feeble manifold vac operated fuel pump to prime is painful. Just lift the tank and spray into the air filter inlet and up she fires...

The upside of grinding the starter though is that you will have oil pressure before the engine fires up...
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
John B
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« Reply #21 on: 16 November, 2015, 10:38:10 AM »

Thanks for all your replies, I too have heard the story that the engine will come to rely on easy start.....I think it's just one of those many urban myths that goes around.

"The upside of grinding the starter though is that you will have oil pressure before the engine fires up..."
Good point....I will bear that in mind.

Electric fuel pump is the favoured option by most so I will probably be going down that road.
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1961 Appia S3
1969 Fiat 850 Special
fay66
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« Reply #22 on: 16 November, 2015, 11:46:36 AM »

The discussion about the advisability of using easy start type products has been rumbling on for a long time. Personally I am with Brian on this, an electric pump is much more gentle on the engine than these products ..... but they do still have their place in the toolkit, just not the weapon of first choice!!!

Brian, with regard to pump location, I understand fuel pumps may be either pushers or pullers. I presume yours is a pusher, hence located adjacent to the tank. So long as it works, that is ok.

                               Andy

     
Thanks Andy, perhaps they fitted it there as the Series 1 doesn't have a fuel return system.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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GG
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored


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« Reply #23 on: 16 November, 2015, 12:23:08 PM »

Have fitted a Facets pump on Aurelia for years, but always in-line with mechanical pump. That way, for general running, use the mechanical pump. For starting, use the electric to prime and spare the starter motor. However, this recommendation comes with a couple of caveats:

- the electric pump should be the lower pressure one (2.5-4psi), as its pressure is directly on the mechanical fuel pump diaphragm.
- probably check the condition of the diaphragm. Don't want that to fail. Upgrade to newer material. 
- its worth checking the delivered PSI of the mechanical pump throughout the rev range. When Walt Spak was still with us, he once tested 3 mechanical fuel pumps and found their delivered pressure was all over the place. From the three, he made one good one. he also found the thickness of a gasket at the mounting point impacted delivered pressure, varying from 0 to 7 psi.

Remade pumps are available but even these should still be checked. Also check for wear on the pushrod.

For our unrestored Appia, I haven't had the nerve to fit an electric pump, so a bit of starter fluid when it sits for a long time. A couple of quick bursts, and then it runs happily on the choke. It helps from overtaxing the starter motor. Haven't seen any downside to this but it doesn't get a lot of use either.
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
davidwheeler
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« Reply #24 on: 17 November, 2015, 02:00:53 PM »

After more than a month of inactivity with my Appia and bearing in mind all the posts regarding battery draining and starter motor churning when starting a car without an electric fuel pump I tried something different when starting it yesterday.

A  2 or 3 second spray of Bradex Easy Start into the air filter, no choke, start the car.....engine immediately started and ran for perhaps 1 or 2 seconds. Repeated procedure and again engine ran for 1 or 2 seconds.
Then used choke and started as normal, engine fired up after just a few seconds, I think the few seconds of running with the Easy Start spray equates to something like 30 seconds of battery draining and starter motor churning.

Anyone see any problems with this method?
There once was a thing called Ki Gas, routinely fitted to aero engines but quite  often to the better sort of vintage car and usually marked by a small plaque somewhere on the car!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
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« Reply #25 on: 21 November, 2015, 05:27:20 PM »

Another useful thread

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4362.msg32178#msg32178


P
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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #26 on: 26 November, 2015, 04:58:36 PM »

Personally I would recommend fitting a gear reduction starter motor. Twice the power, half the current, thereby saving the battery,and up to 50% lighter. Price approx. 155.00 from Auto Electrical Supplies. Disable the ignition, crank until oil pressure registers ( much quicker with the faster cranking speed), by which time you should have fuel to the carbs, give the throttle 4 good pumps, switch on the ignition and it should start. Works well with race engines running much higher compression.

John
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1600 HF. S2.
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #27 on: 26 November, 2015, 05:22:20 PM »

I like the idea of the starter motors John, and may get one myself


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Richard Nevison Fridd
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