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Author Topic: Who do you think you are?......... with a Lancia slant!  (Read 6659 times)
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Parisien
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« on: 30 October, 2015, 12:37:17 PM »

When being sold my B12, I wasn't sure to start with if the seller had any documentation etc with the car.

I did get the original registration book as it turns out, with the complete (?) list of previous owners. I am now going to try and find out some more about them via help in Portugal.

The first owner/registered keeper was listed as the Lancia importer "Sociedade Universus" of Porto.

I am hoping over the coming months to accumulate more info to find out "who" this Lancia Aurelia B12 actually was in its former automotive life.


So, for owners of older or very old Lancias how much of a life story do you have about your Lancia, am sure we'd all be interested to hear?


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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #1 on: 30 October, 2015, 12:43:31 PM »

To start with theres no longer any reference to the importer noted above in the Lancia directory of franchisees, but then I already knew that as they closed up shop in 1967!

http://www.lancia.pt/pt/concessionarios


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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #2 on: 30 October, 2015, 03:11:06 PM »

I have no recorded history of my B20. This is because I omitted to copy the V5 which came with the car. This had to be sent to the DVLA, but stupidly I did not copy it. However, I recall that it was imported to the UK in 1963 and the first recorded registered keeper in the UK with an address in Shooters Hill Road in south east London. It still retains the same registration. There were a couple more owners, but I cannot remember any details. So, not a long story !!!!

The Gussie was bought from a local dealer, a friend of the family, my wife blames him for starting me off on the downward (as she sees it) slope into multiple Lancia ownership. A previous owner came from Tunbridge to see it, probably when it was at its worst, and was not impressed. .......... but at least it was still around!!!

The Appia was bought from Ben Courage. I am fairly, but not totally certain, of some of its earlier history. I believe Ben bought it from Cristo, who I believe imported it from South Africa. It still sports a Lancia Club SA sticker, so I presume was known in the SA Lancia circles.

That's enough, picking up on Frank's post, has anyone a detailed/interesting history? Has anyone any advice on finding a car's history?

                                         Andy

                                                               
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Parisien
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« Reply #3 on: 30 October, 2015, 03:45:47 PM »

Another place to start if details sketchy.

https://mot-history.net/


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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #4 on: 30 October, 2015, 05:44:10 PM »

When being sold my B12, I wasn't sure to start with if the seller had any documentation etc with the car.

I did get the original registration book as it turns out, with the complete (?) list of previous owners. I am now going to try and find out some more about them via help in Portugal.

The first owner/registered keeper was listed as the Lancia importer "Sociedade Universus" of Porto.

I am hoping over the coming months to accumulate more info to find out "who" this Lancia Aurelia B12 actually was in its former automotive life.


So, for owners of older or very old Lancias how much of a life story do you have about your Lancia, am sure we'd all be interested to hear?


P

Hi Frank,
I've met a number of the Lancia owners from around Porto so do you have a list of the names? besides which Ricardo who I posted the reports and photos earlier this year of his journey in his Fulvia Normale Berlina, lives around there so he'd be a good contact.

Brian
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« Reply #5 on: 30 October, 2015, 06:49:19 PM »

Hi Brian, it is indeed Ricardo I've made contact with. He's very kindly offered  to make initial enquiries on my behalf and then see where it leads us. It will take a couple of months, so we'll see how things unfold.

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« Reply #6 on: 30 October, 2015, 06:51:23 PM »

This will be of interest to other Aurelia B12 owners on this board, especially Frank and Chris.

I bought my B12 berlina in 1997. I had always been looking for a berlina, and specifically a B12 , and found it advertised in the LMC Newssheet (or was it already then Viva Lancia?). It was in Sweden, near Malmö, I went there, bought it and drove it back all the way to Switzerland (well, not quite, there was the very practical car train from Hamburg to Lörrach, near Basel) - That was quite an expedition, my first Aurelia, I was driving it back alone, had to catch 2 ferries, and then drive quite fast to Hamburg to be on time for the car train boarding.

Well, the Lancia went well, although with a very noisy exhaust, and when I arrived home, I could check the papers that came with it. There was this red plastic etui, marked:
"Dante Cantoni", BRESCIA, Tel. 10-21
Inside a green document, like a passport, what is now I think called a Libretto.
And in that document, the full history of that car.
Initially (13.10.1954) owned by the Municipio di Brescia, with registration 47963 BS
At registration date, there is a mention that the car has to be inspected after a change of the headlights, according to new regulations, before the 9.01.1955. That change was done quickly, as the libretto shows approval of the new lights on 18.11.1954.
The libretto then mentions the new owner, Cesare Bonente, residente Brescia, with his birthdate (28.12.1932), and the change of ownership took place on 12.07.1961. So this nice guy, 28 years old, takes over a 6 year old flagship of the Lancia company - it may have already done a great many kilometers as an official car with the mayor sitting in the back, but would still have been quite a sight on the italian roads in the early sixties.
Finally, in a small pocket glued to the inside rear cover, I find a swedish registration, dated 8/7 1964, with the new owner's name, Sture Herman Edhlund. He was an optician, and kept and cherished the B12, registered ESH 203, until 1990. Then the Aurelia berlina was bought by Magnus Nilsson, the son of the long time president of the swedish Lancia Club, who finally in 1997 advertised it in the LMC newssheet.


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« Last Edit: 30 October, 2015, 07:05:27 PM by Sebastien » Logged
Parisien
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« Reply #7 on: 30 October, 2015, 07:28:08 PM »

Thats fascinating Sebastien, thank you for posting the history of your B12. So in total only 5 owners for yours and indeed 5 owners for mine including myself ( if we count the concessionaire). There are only 8 pages to the document, not sure if some missing from middle of it, but expect to find out.


1st. Sociedade Universus -  Porto, from 11/1955

2nd. Another very long Portuguese name I can't quite make out ( ie no point of me putting it on forum if I get 3/4 letters wrong) - Porto, from 04/1957

3rd. Armando Nery Teixedo - address(?) in Portugal , from 05/1961

4th Tomas Joaquim Coneia - address not clear in Portugual , from 02/1967

A guy bought if off the last owners relatives and then sold it to me, not sure if he was a dealer or just middle man acting on their behalf but not registered on my document

5th Myself

How we got it back to N Ireland is documented on my thread!



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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #8 on: 30 October, 2015, 07:42:39 PM »

Andy, can you check back with DVA about details they have on their system for any of your Lancias especially the B20, it would be well worth the effort.

I suspect a few members have tracked down very fulsome histories of their Lancias, perhaps they can give a few tips that will help?

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« Reply #9 on: 31 October, 2015, 10:53:43 PM »

My B10 was a complete doddle as I am only the 3rd owner. It was registered and lived in Genova from 1953 to 1979 when Enrico Cavalitto bought it and I bought it from him in 1981. The green book had all the tax disc information from its time in Italy.
Conversely I have no idea about the history of my other Lancias which are UK-derived for before 1974 for any of them. Such a shame.
My Hands however is fully documented from 1922 except for a short gap 1945-7 but this was down the the assiduous work of the 2 previous owners.
Just realised I am waffling ............apologies
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« Reply #10 on: 01 November, 2015, 10:29:29 AM »

Andy, can you check back with DVA about details they have on their system for any of your Lancias especially the B20, it would be well worth the effort.

I suspect a few members have tracked down very fulsome histories of their Lancias, perhaps they can give a few tips that will help?

P

Don't DVLA records just go back to computerization/centralization (ie when DVLA took over from the local offices and the old green log book was discontinued)? Late 1970's?
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Parisien
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« Reply #11 on: 01 November, 2015, 11:01:08 AM »

I believe so , plus MOT history just back to 2005 or so, but details all fails/advisories in detail, so may be of very limited use as regards its whole history

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« Last Edit: 01 November, 2015, 11:36:37 AM by Parisien » Logged

Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #12 on: 01 November, 2015, 12:06:31 PM »

I believe so , plus MOT history just back to 2005 or so, but details all fails/advisories in detail, so may be of very limited use as regards its whole history

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Only basic stuff and nothing about who owned the car....
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« Reply #13 on: 01 November, 2015, 12:17:13 PM »

I believe so , plus MOT history just back to 2005 or so, but details all fails/advisories in detail, so may be of very limited use as regards its whole history

P
Only basic stuff and nothing about who owned the car....

True, but gives you an idea of how the car has been looked after in recent years, whats been recorded as an advisory, what then needed fixed.

So you'd have an idea was the current owner of previous owners cherished or looked after it when in their care. Gives you a bit of confidence if say its up for sale and you can see for 8/9/10 yrs its passed each time and no advisories.


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« Reply #14 on: 02 November, 2015, 09:54:12 AM »

I am fortunate enough to have the 'Licenza di Circulazione per Autovettura' book as well as the full Automobile Club d'Italia records for my newly acquired B12. I therefore have the full list of owners from April 28th 1955 starting with Dottore Antonio Giuseppe Denani  as well as the Revisione (MOT) records with the final Revisione being issued on September 26th 2015.
The speedo shows 61,843 km and I have found nothing to think that this is not genuine although the vendor didn't make this a selling point.
The car is black and has had new paint sometime in the last 20 year and the interior was retrimmed properly in  grey cloth as original about 2 years ago. The engine has also been rebuilt recently as the liners had dropped over time as they do. The car has all original matching numbers, no new metalwork that I can detect and all the original Lancia trim in the boot and under the dashboard is all still there along with the ACI stickers for 1955, 1956 and 1957 on the reverse of the interior rear view mirror.

My car, B12 1755, was built at the very end of 1954 and first registered on 28.04.55 so is a little later than Sebastiens with no note of headlights being changed. I wonder why Sebastian's car had its headlights changed?

By the way I believe I am correct in saying that if you have the original Italian registration number for your car then it is possible to obtain the details of the owner(s) from the Registration department  for that Cummune,
Chris
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