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Author Topic: Roof chopping on B20s - a thread from the Lancisti forum  (Read 8585 times)
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #15 on: 06 October, 2015, 06:32:39 PM »

Re Speedhunter's Delta, that really is pointless! There's virtually nothing left of the Evo so why trash it? You could have put almost any body on that spaceframe chasis. Why not a Supra body for heaven's sake?
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #16 on: 06 October, 2015, 09:02:20 PM »


It only needs to appeal to one person.
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Kevin MacBride
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« Reply #17 on: 22 October, 2015, 08:06:04 PM »

I 'lowered' the roof on my Aurelia some time ago... wasn't entirely happy with results though !  Cry
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« Reply #18 on: 22 October, 2015, 08:29:43 PM »

I 'lowered' the roof on my Aurelia some time ago... wasn't entirely happy with results though !  Cry

Very Droll Kevin Grin

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« Reply #19 on: 18 November, 2015, 02:41:38 PM »

"I've noticed over the past 10 years that an increasing number of the UK's Fulvia coupes have some kind of 'competition car' modifications: black bonnet, wheelarch extensions, stickers, etc. etc. I think that's a shame, but never thought the same would happen to the B20.

Your chopped B20 might look cool but it will offend the sensibilities of every kind of old-car purist, and purism is the way that market sentiment and pricing are going. So the 'why' is quite hard to fathom."


This is my favourite quote from the chopped B20 debate and as an example of an elitist , snobbish comment it would be hard to beat. When people start using phrases like 'market sentiment ' you know they've lost the plot and have forgotten how to enjoy their old cars, focusing instead on preserving the value of their 'investment'.
 I speak as one of the great unwashed currently modifying a Fulvia coupe which is an extremely enjoyable exercise and has taught me much about what made the clever guys at Lancia tick. I really couldn't give a toss about market sentiment but there again, I'm the type of bloke who thinks the chopped B20 looks absolutely beautiful.
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« Reply #20 on: 18 November, 2015, 04:28:24 PM »

"I've noticed over the past 10 years that an increasing number of the UK's Fulvia coupes have some kind of 'competition car' modifications: black bonnet, wheelarch extensions, stickers, etc. etc. I think that's a shame, but never thought the same would happen to the B20.

Your chopped B20 might look cool but it will offend the sensibilities of every kind of old-car purist, and purism is the way that market sentiment and pricing are going. So the 'why' is quite hard to fathom."


This is my favourite quote from the chopped B20 debate and as an example of an elitist , snobbish comment it would be hard to beat. When people start using phrases like 'market sentiment ' you know they've lost the plot and have forgotten how to enjoy their old cars, focusing instead on preserving the value of their 'investment'.
 I speak as one of the great unwashed currently modifying a Fulvia coupe which is an extremely enjoyable exercise and has taught me much about what made the clever guys at Lancia tick. I really couldn't give a toss about market sentiment but there again, I'm the type of bloke who thinks the chopped B20 looks absolutely beautiful.
With you all the way Rob!! Save for my very tatty French Delta all my Lancias are modified in some way or other. Even my Aprilia (when I had it) had additional instrumentation .... as you say to enjoy something it has to be personal.

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« Reply #21 on: 18 November, 2015, 05:30:14 PM »

Yes - in the same way that it's impossible that 1/12th of the world's population share the same horoscope every day, so it is impossible for a manufacturer to make a car that suits every single person. You start with a base that you like, in that same way that you adapt your house to suit. When I bought my Fulvia it had a black bonnet (now red), wheelarch extensions (still there) and alloy bonnet. The seats have changed for the very reason that after my first few sprints and hillclimbs I was fed up sliding from one side of the car to the other. I then set out over time to make it a nice light nimble car by adding the rest of the panels and plexi windows. It had new sills at one point and some floor panels and some new paint. If anything I would say it's a better, sounder car now than the day I bought it. Plus it's all easily reversible.
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« Reply #22 on: 19 November, 2015, 05:00:19 PM »

"I've noticed over the past 10 years that an increasing number of the UK's Fulvia coupes have some kind of 'competition car' modifications: black bonnet, wheelarch extensions, stickers, etc. etc. I think that's a shame, but never thought the same would happen to the B20.

Your chopped B20 might look cool but it will offend the sensibilities of every kind of old-car purist, and purism is the way that market sentiment and pricing are going. So the 'why' is quite hard to fathom."


This is my favourite quote from the chopped B20 debate and as an example of an elitist , snobbish comment it would be hard to beat. When people start using phrases like 'market sentiment ' you know they've lost the plot and have forgotten how to enjoy their old cars, focusing instead on preserving the value of their 'investment'.
 I speak as one of the great unwashed currently modifying a Fulvia coupe which is an extremely enjoyable exercise and has taught me much about what made the clever guys at Lancia tick. I really couldn't give a toss about market sentiment but there again, I'm the type of bloke who thinks the chopped B20 looks absolutely beautiful.

I wondered whether to ignore this, but (perhaps foolishly) have decided not to...

It's one thing to say you prefer cars to be original (as I did, re Fulvias in my comment quoted above), another to throw around judgements about the personality ("elitist", "snobbish", "lost the plot") of a fellow forum member.

My observation about market sentiment was supposed to be about where the money is going, not my attitude to my cars. I presume that TK's 'outlaw' B20s will be fairly expensive, and I am fairly sure that most people who spend 150k (my guess at TK's price) on a 'restomod' (in US parlance) will spare some thought to what it will be worth 5 years down the line. In my book that doesn't necessarily mean they are not real enthusiasts.

I do believe in the 'it's your car you can do what you want with it' philosophy up to a point, but I also think that the historical aspects of our hobby are important, and RobD's interest in "what made the clever guys at Lancia tick" suggests to me that we might agree a bit on this.

Cars that have not been modified offer a much more direct route back to the people who designed and built them than a modified (or even rebuilt as original) car does. As time goes by, originality is becoming more prized and I applaud this. As an enthusiast.
« Last Edit: 19 November, 2015, 11:08:02 PM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: 19 November, 2015, 09:19:31 PM »

Quite right William.
But I suspect TKs price is higher and then that has to be added to the purchase price  of the car. Although of course one can now buy a complete remanufactured B20 bodyshell from Poland so why not use these instead of destroying (modifying?) an original one.
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Chris Gawne
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« Reply #24 on: 20 November, 2015, 01:34:45 AM »

There's a difference between doing one-off as an exercise, and doing a run of them. One is just-to-see, and perhaps is justifiable (although not to my taste, it is interesting to see). A run of them is another matter, and raises the question of how we value originality (or not).

 
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« Reply #25 on: 20 November, 2015, 05:46:33 PM »

As always, you pay your money and take your choice. If there are customers willing to pay very substantial sums of money to buy these conversions then there is a lucrative market made up of people who value something other than originality.

Are there enough standard B20s out there and is this run of conversions going to critically endanger the surviving pool of original cars? Also if original B20s become  valuable enough may not somebody in the future convert them back again. They won't be truly "original" but then is any major restoration ever so?

Should we be adding transistorised ignition to our Fulvias.............

I doubt the "originality" and "modify" camps will ever be reconciled.

Frank T
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Richard Fridd
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« Reply #26 on: 20 November, 2015, 09:27:20 PM »

Quite right William.
But I suspect TKs price is higher and then that has to be added to the purchase price  of the car. Although of course one can now buy a complete remanufactured B20 bodyshell from Poland so why not use these instead of destroying (modifying?) an original one.
Chris
.          Out of interest, who sells remanufactures B20 bodyshells?
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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« Reply #27 on: 20 November, 2015, 10:01:49 PM »

Not found out who yet, but on their forum, a 2013 post stated there was only one B20 in Poland.


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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #28 on: 21 November, 2015, 12:31:37 AM »

With prices for good B20s now firmly above 100k I expect to see examples of completely new bodyshelled cars with chassis plates from long scrapped B20s start to appear from time to time. Exactly as happened with B24 Spiders about 10 years ago when their prices broke through the same threshold.
I have certainly seen one dodgy B24 Spider a few years ago.
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« Reply #29 on: 21 November, 2015, 01:57:42 PM »

I would like to see the dodgy spider. Is it a case of rebodying a refurbished and modified original floorpan?
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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