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Author Topic: Aprilia race preparation  (Read 8520 times)
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LouK
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« on: 16 September, 2015, 10:15:37 AM »

So after watching the amazing pre-war cars hurtle around Goodwood at the Revival, it begged the question to Jason and I how you would go about race preparing an Aprilia.  Of course we all know how successful they were in races and rally's in period and I've seen some fabulous results in recent rally's but I wonder how a race Aprilia would stack up today against other prewar cars?

Anyone done this (I've not seen any on track) or have any thoughts? I'm guessing it would be best to start with a solid restoration project with the thought to keep the car as light as possible.  Anyone got any thoughts on engine development?  Is it true that 90bhp is capable from the 1500?

I'm really looking forward to learning from the experts on this.  Apologies if this has been answered before - please point me in the direction of the appropriate thread.
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #1 on: 16 September, 2015, 11:05:20 AM »

It hasn't been done in a long time.  There are articles in old news sheets from the tuning guru and hotshot.  He had little F3 cotton reel wheels on the back at one time.  Colin Marr is probably the best person to phone.  A stash of spares turned up recently with a batch of manifold plates we think from that source which might have some interesting bits and bobs in, but starting from scratch is easier now than its ever been with things like pistons and rods and CNC water jet cutting of manifold plates.

I'd love to see Italian information on Aprilia tuning, pre and post war...   Prewar is typically the 1350 but there were some 1500s.  If you think getting a Beta roll cage past the Germans is tricky you aint seen nothing compared to prewar car eligability - and for very good reason as people who run those sorts of cars are extremely talented engineers and mischievous and devious b*stards to a fault.

The question over the last few decades is "race where and with who".  The VSCC hasn't wanted closed cars at speed events until very recently.  However there are a number of meetings at Spa with prewar grids and of course the LeMans classic but is an Aprilia what they are looking for?   One of the Aprilia based barchettas maybe...and these days a good replica is as welcome as a genuine car.  To me an Aprilia is a long distance rally car, probably an even better one than an Aurelia.  Anthony Hussey is the man to call as he has experience of both.

A prewar Lancia to race?   A Lambda is the obvious, preferably one with prewar race history, ideally at Brooklands.  It can be a special but prove is was already a cut down special prewar to do the best events.  An Augusta March with a blower is the other option  but even then there's not a lot of power and prone to overheat - a brilliant and very lovely road car, and to hillclimb, perhaps on a gentle trial, but its hard to imagine one keeping up or going the distance somewhere like Goodwood.

Perhaps an Aprilia engine in an Augusta chassis?  That was what I intended to spend your money on when the Aurelia went.  Maybe one day yet.  It should make a more reliable road car than with a supercharged Augusta engine and a better prospect on track but only with organizers who are open to recently built specials.  Angouleme was a dream event in that category.

My own fantasy had I stayed doing what I was doing was a Maserati Voiturette.  That, your Aurelia, and whatever Sara wanted as long as it had a tow bar would have done me.  

David
« Last Edit: 16 September, 2015, 11:53:05 AM by DavidLaver » Logged

David Laver, Lewisham.
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« Reply #2 on: 16 September, 2015, 11:15:43 AM »

A very smart March in the US, and a very scruffy special I think now in Germany that I think Robbie Coltrane raced for a while, and a Zagato.


* 34-Lancia-Augusta-DV-12-AI-01.jpg (274.76 KB, 1024x680 - viewed 172 times.)

* foto0121.jpg (87.01 KB, 803x602 - viewed 166 times.)

* car_photo_572773_25.jpg (73.49 KB, 900x659 - viewed 116 times.)
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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« Reply #3 on: 16 September, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »


Colin also has a brilliant photo of a drifting Aprilia at a Goodwood track day.  If you want something to blow up and put on the wall as inspiration it would be that one.
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #4 on: 16 September, 2015, 03:16:53 PM »

Norwalk Vintage Motors have this on their site.


* norwalk%201946.jpg (37.51 KB, 480x480 - viewed 469 times.)
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Richard Nevison Fridd
LouK
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« Reply #5 on: 16 September, 2015, 03:45:16 PM »

Oh goodness Richard.  That looks amazing.  I'm not sure I dare look at the website for fear of enormous disappointment :-( or sudden madness.  Must not find a cheque book....
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #6 on: 16 September, 2015, 04:10:36 PM »

Norman Wilson was the great Aprilia Racing guru and I recall that a lot of his exploits are recorded in the LMC journal and newsheets, plus I think that the spares that David referred to came from Norman's hoard

Aprilia Saloons can be made to go very quickly , and I agree with David, I would see them more as a road than circuit car, but would love to see otherwise. They have fabulous independent suspension that copes with anything thrown at it ....

Indeed YRV 700 (2nd ser 1500) did well in some of the early European Classic retro-rallies in the early 90's (??) being run by Anthony Smallhorn and later Anthony Hussey. This car was then owned by Gerald Batt and is now with Terry Allen, if I have my facts right !

Of course, they do extremely well in the winter rallies as well

I am currently putting together a 1350 engine with some interesting bits and will post on this later, and Ben Courage has a few tricks up his sleeve as well.

As has been said before though, the potential weak links for any "hot" Aprilia engine are the aluminium rods, I would imagine that any race project would need newly made rods, preferably in aluminium. Others have made them in steel but that can cause significant balance problems. See elsewhere on the forum for more on this one !!
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
Dilambdaman
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« Reply #7 on: 16 September, 2015, 07:34:36 PM »

Lightwight 4litre V8 Dilambda? Shocked

It has been finished and for sale recently. Can't find a photo of the finished article and the You Tube video of it seems to have vanished.

Photo attached of the original car which inspired the recreation and one of it nearing completion.

Robin.


* lancia_dilambda_lansink_700.jpg (232.51 KB, 700x441 - viewed 492 times.)

* Lanciawings6511004.jpg (887 KB, 3072x2304 - viewed 145 times.)
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Robin Lacey 3222

1932 Dilambda
1969 Fulvia S1 1.6HF Fanalone
LouK
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« Reply #8 on: 16 September, 2015, 08:14:07 PM »

Thank you Simon - this is great information.  When I have time I'll trawl through our Journals and also the Forum.  Good to understand both the weaknesses as well as the strengths.

Robin, what a magnificent project!  The original car looks huge!  It was great to watch the huge Talbot racing against the FN and Alfa at the Revival - great handling for such a huge car and I'm assuming the Dilambda would be the same.  Sadly I fear that a car like this would always be out of any price range we might have.
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #9 on: 16 September, 2015, 09:19:30 PM »


Custom made aluminum rods are available from the States and perhaps also somewhere like Arrow in the UK.  I've got a set of new old stock Smiley   

Steel rods can be made light, its persuading a manufacturer to work to your weight limit rather than their usual "unbreakable" standard.  Its not going to rev particularly high by modern standards, not high at all.

Lots of scope for compression increase with Fulvia style sloped top pistons or with an Alfa type dome.  Breathing can be improved a little through the ports and a lot with a pair of carbs.  The original cam is very conservative.

Someone near Farnborough had a massively over-bored Aprilia.  Perhaps 1700cc.  I've a memory of it running some sort of Aurelia pistons.  Again I've got notes, somewhere...  He'd also messed about with different superchargers on fabricated manifolds.

From memory I think the clutch and box were ok but the diff (input shaft?) a bit fragile.  I've got the articles scanned, somewhere...
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #10 on: 18 September, 2015, 02:45:00 PM »

Also for sale in America is this Aprilia engined special   danrapley.com/inventory/fischhaber-lancia-special-the-avus-mystery-racer-no-more/  automotoclassicsale.com/node/15858


* avus.jpg (696.63 KB, 3205x2227 - viewed 167 times.)

* avus%202.jpg (11.39 KB, 150x150 - viewed 390 times.)
« Last Edit: 18 September, 2015, 04:07:25 PM by Richard Fridd » Logged

Richard Nevison Fridd
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« Reply #11 on: 18 September, 2015, 07:26:48 PM »

I was thinking the pictures were of two different cars but the write up on the sales web site explains.

"The motor racing scene in both West and East Germany after the war would be dominated by home-built race cars called Eigenbaus (translation home built). They were built with whatever materials these privateer builders could find. Those post-war racers were a creative bunch. Never satisfied with what factories provided, they always seemed to have an itch to scratch. Could they build a better race car using the best parts available and cloaking it in a lightweight aluminum (and sometimes fiberglass) body? The answer more often than not is yes they could. Our most recent acquisition has been a mystery racer featured in Veloce Today’s July 7, 2010 issue. Much of the information we have today comes from the previous owner and the Veloce Today article. Hans Fischhaber built the Lancia powered racer to compete in the German Championships in 1953.  Fischhaber selected an 1100cc Lancia engine and gearbox from (most likely) the Aprillia.There would be other more powerful Lancia-powered Eigenbau specials including one driven by Mauritz von Strachwitz but he lost his driver’s license just before the race!

When you study the photos, you can see the expert level of engineering Fischhaber used in building the car. It is apparent that he made every effort to make the car as light as possible, drilling holes throughout including the pedal box. The body is aluminum with a light coat of fiberglass. The steering wheel, headlamps and fasteners were sourced at German manufacturers. The race was was lost when Fischhaber wrecked the Lancia-Eigenbau on July 12, 1953 during the second round. Although it was banged up badly, it wasn’t scrapped. History isn’t clear what other races the 1100cc Lancia-Eigenbau competed. There are records of Hans Fischhaber racing a Lancia-Eigenbau at the Hillclimb Schauinsland 1953 and the Rheinland-Pfalz Preis Nürburgring in 1954.  What we do know is that, eventually, it was converted to road use and remains configured as such to this day. That conversion required fitting a modified nose and a windscreen from an MGA. The Fischhaber Lancia-Eigenbau Special deserves restoration as a tribute to the brave racers who were bold enough to compete against the factory juggernauts."

Here are some more Aprillia specials (should somebody tell the Kennedys?).




* Aprilia Pagani Riva Barchetta Corsa 1946.jpg (18.74 KB, 500x299 - viewed 400 times.)

* Aprillia Zagato 1939 model.jpg (20.14 KB, 500x275 - viewed 448 times.)

* Future Models 1939 Aprillia Pininfarina Corsa.jpg (259.52 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 150 times.)

* Aprillia streamline 19367 coupe.jpg (16.85 KB, 397x192 - viewed 422 times.)
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LouK
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« Reply #12 on: 20 September, 2015, 03:41:20 PM »

We are doomed!  Thanks so much for the information and advice.  And the temptations.....dare I view the for sale ads.....?! Probably best to do so after we've sold my baby Fiat Abarth and am also considering the future of my Fulvia Zagato racer...

Ben, be lovely to meet you at Combe.
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JohnMillham
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« Reply #13 on: 21 September, 2015, 07:54:00 AM »

A very smart March in the US, and a very scruffy special I think now in Germany that I think Robbie Coltrane raced for a while, and a Zagato.

Robbie Coltrane owned it, but I don't think he actually raced it. It was raced in VSCC events many years previously with a British Salmson engine. I went to see it when it was last in the U.K., but was not impressed.
I would like to know who owns the smart March. I particularly like the early style front wings it now has.
Regards, John
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Dilambdaman
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« Reply #14 on: 22 September, 2015, 11:31:33 AM »

Found a photo of the finished Dilambda racer.

Robin.


* Lancia fotos (3).JPG (188.5 KB, 740x492 - viewed 342 times.)
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Robin Lacey 3222

1932 Dilambda
1969 Fulvia S1 1.6HF Fanalone
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