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Author Topic: And then there were two...  (Read 7176 times)
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westernlancia
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Appia S1 - 2006 Turin centenary Car of the Century


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« Reply #15 on: 20 February, 2015, 02:00:00 AM »

Fantastic find, i`m really envious as i have been thinking of getting an Appia to sit alongside my 815 Coupe.

Do it! I have driven and restored a lot of cars in my life, many of them (supposedly!) more exalted than Appias. But I have never come into contact with anything that approaches the delicacy, shell rigidity or quality of finish of a Series 1 Appia. The Italian nickname for them is 'bomboniere', which basically means delicate little fancies, and I couldn't put it better myself: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomboniere
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #16 on: 20 February, 2015, 08:50:23 PM »


Alan,

For you it HAS to be the series 1?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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« Reply #17 on: 20 February, 2015, 08:59:13 PM »

Alan, I have only driven a Series 2, but feel that nick-name, 'delicate little fancy', is a very accurate description for it. Is there a big difference in feel between the S1 and the S2?

Glad to see that you are settling in la belle France.

                                           Andy
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westernlancia
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« Reply #18 on: 20 February, 2015, 11:55:57 PM »

Alan, I have only driven a Series 2, but feel that nick-name, 'delicate little fancy', is a very accurate description for it. Is there a big difference in feel between the S1 and the S2?
Glad to see that you are settling in
Andy

Thanks Andy - you are in danger of getting a visit if I can co-ordinate one to see Simon when you are around...

And in answer to your (and David's) question re. S1 vs S2 - the difference is HUGE! In comparison with an S1, everything on an S2 feels heavier and more ponderous (and to be fair more solid and substantial - they didn't facelift them after 2 years for nothing!). It is a subjective matter, and many wouldn't agree (although Don Cross, who knows his Appias, isn't one of them!), but in my view the S1 is streets ahead of the S2 and S3 for delicacy, 'nervousness' and vintage feel. Nowhere near as fast or durable, but that's not the point! I have owned 4 S3s, the Furgoncino (which I never drove, although I did drive the Consortium one), and now two S1s. And for me at least, it's S1s all the way! I will miss the Furgoncino for ever, but with 16-inch wheels and an Aurelia front axle, delicate it ain't!

« Last Edit: 20 February, 2015, 11:58:59 PM by westernlancia » Logged

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DavidLaver
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« Reply #19 on: 21 February, 2015, 12:26:28 AM »


Having had four S3s what drew you to them in the first place and "what's not to like"?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
westernlancia
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« Reply #20 on: 21 February, 2015, 07:55:18 AM »

Having had four S3s what drew you to them in the first place and "what's not to like"?

MUCH cheaper (half the price really), MUCH easier to find (probably 20-50 times as many left), MUCH more durable to use as daily drivers, nicer to drive (chuckable and unburstable), faster (used to cruise my last S3 at 80-85, which was faster than it is supposed to go at all!).

Also (and this is a big one with me but maybe less so for some), I feel more of a responsibility to preserve and cherish older Lancias, as they are exponentially rarer. If I use an S3 and it goes downhill a bit it's not the end of the world because there are loads more where that came from. Do that with an S1 and you've destroyed an irreplaceable piece of automotive heritage. That said, it's that attitude that made S1s rare in the first place - in the scene in the Italian job where they use a transporter full of (scrap) cars as a battering ram and an Austin Cambridge falls on a Simca Étoile (or vice versa?), one of the scrappers on the bottom deck of the transporter is an S1 Appia.

But anyway, whatever the rights and wrongs, an S3 is a much better proposition as a daily driver because of its much less rare and more available status. As an object of desire to cherish and enjoy, an S1 is streets ahead.

Until I found this S1 I was looking for an S3 to use as a daily driver (the one that Simon has was going to be it, but with the move to France I didn't have the time to do the work it needed).

Then this S1 came along, for basically what was S3 money, and in one in a million condition, and I hesitated at first. But then I thought that I could still use it as a driver most of the time where I am, as it is hot and dry except for about 3 months just ending now.

And I've got my 'bump-stop special' Ypsilon Elefantino rosso with Konis, lowered springs, 6-speed box, etc., to use in winter.

So really it's horses for courses. Peter Baker rallied his S1 with a lot of success, and he is full of praise for its qualities in that role (I was talking to him about it only last week when he came through the area on the Classic Monte!).
« Last Edit: 21 February, 2015, 08:24:55 AM by westernlancia » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: 21 February, 2015, 08:57:27 AM »

Alan, I have never before heard any comparison between the Appia series. That is so very interesting. I hope others will now join in  and give us the benefit of their opinions. Having only ever driven an S2 I am not able to offer any comment on this.

                            Andy

 
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westernlancia
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« Reply #22 on: 21 February, 2015, 09:03:59 AM »

Having had four S3s what drew you to them in the first place and "what's not to like"?

Meant to say before - there is really only one 'not to like' on all Appias. As I said before, S2s and (more so) S3s are heavier, more 'modern' feeling and less delicate, with all the pros and cons that that implies.

But they all have one drawback, which is harder to address on S3s. Appias are not as rust-prone as later cars, largely because of the quality of the steel used (they aren't really any better painted than Fulvias, but the decline in steel quality used seems to post-date the Appia).

So rust isn't the really scary problem it can be on later cars, and Appias are also massively over-engineered, which is another reason I like them.

However, the rear wings are the most amazing mud trap. They aren't structural (although the inner ones to some extent are). But you need to watch em, and if they haven't been off the car they WILL be rusty inside. Use em in winter and the salt up there is almost impossible to get out and will do untold damage.

The other problem area is between the back of the front wings and the scuttle - mud and salt get up there and rot the scuttle out. Again, if you use the car in winter this will do terrible damage in quite a short timescale.

On S1s and S2s the front wings are removable.

But on S3s they aren't...
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00 Lancia Y Elefantino Rosso, 96 Lancia Y 1.2, 84 VW Golf GTi, 66 VW Splitscreen, 56 Ford Anglia, 56 Lancia Appia S1, 54 Ford Prefect, 54 Lancia Appia S1, 37 Terraplane, lovely old trailer, 10,000 vintage accessories
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lancialulu
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« Reply #23 on: 21 February, 2015, 10:37:37 AM »

Alan, I have never before heard any comparison between the Appia series. That is so very interesting. I hope others will now join in  and give us the benefit of their opinions. Having only ever driven an S2 I am not able to offer any comment on this.

                            Andy

 

Perhaps an article in VL??
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1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
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1972 1600 HF
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1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
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westernlancia
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« Reply #24 on: 22 February, 2015, 09:13:14 AM »

Alan, I have never before heard any comparison between the Appia series. That is so very interesting. I hope others will now join in  and give us the benefit of their opinions. Having only ever driven an S2 I am not able to offer any comment on this.
Perhaps an article in VL??

That's a very good idea - I am a writer, after all! I have a really big selection of Italian language original road tests on the Appia (there isn't much in English, so the English language knowledge base tends to be very small). I've also got some period French and German stuff, which is also good. I have been meaning to summarise and translate them for many years (I translated Don Cross's route book for the 2003 Via Appia run and promised I'd do it then!).

While I was running the business it was impossible, because doing my writing work as well as the cars meant I was always working 25 hours a day, but now that things are settling down a bit it would be good to summarise what it all says (and also the 'Lancia Ardea e Appia' book in Italian by Sergio Puttini, which is brilliant).

Don's knowledge on the cars is huge, but he doesn't speak Italian (or French or German!), and I have always felt guilty that I never managed to fill in the gaps for him, because apart from Wim's book most of what is worth reading about Appias is in Italian.
« Last Edit: 22 February, 2015, 09:18:05 AM by westernlancia » Logged

00 Lancia Y Elefantino Rosso, 96 Lancia Y 1.2, 84 VW Golf GTi, 66 VW Splitscreen, 56 Ford Anglia, 56 Lancia Appia S1, 54 Ford Prefect, 54 Lancia Appia S1, 37 Terraplane, lovely old trailer, 10,000 vintage accessories
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« Reply #25 on: 22 February, 2015, 09:22:31 AM »

Sounds like a few articles!! Better start scribing before the real driving weather comes around the corner........
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
westernlancia
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« Reply #26 on: 22 February, 2015, 09:48:33 AM »

Sounds like a few articles!! Better start scribing before the real driving weather comes around the corner........

Too late - it's arrived here already, although I need to wait for some good rain to wash the salt away!
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« Reply #27 on: 22 February, 2015, 05:30:22 PM »

There is smug and there is smug .........
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westernlancia
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« Reply #28 on: 23 February, 2015, 09:34:55 AM »

There is smug and there is smug .........

Hee hee hee...

Actually, I went through a lot and sacrificed a lot to get here. And I waited 25 years (I wanted to do it 25 years ago because you can be a writer anywhere, but it took that long to persuade my wife!). And France was my second choice - I wanted to move to Italy, for obvious reasons, but my wife doesn't speak Italian so the compromise was 50 miles west of the Italian border.
« Last Edit: 23 February, 2015, 09:36:52 AM by westernlancia » Logged

00 Lancia Y Elefantino Rosso, 96 Lancia Y 1.2, 84 VW Golf GTi, 66 VW Splitscreen, 56 Ford Anglia, 56 Lancia Appia S1, 54 Ford Prefect, 54 Lancia Appia S1, 37 Terraplane, lovely old trailer, 10,000 vintage accessories
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« Reply #29 on: 23 February, 2015, 04:19:14 PM »

Seems Like a very reasonable compromise. I hope she is enjoying it as much as you obviously are!!!
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