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Author Topic: The Paul Atkinson - Augusta - news update [etc] ...  (Read 17960 times)
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Kari
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Posts: 187


« Reply #105 on: 02 March, 2024, 08:33:53 AM »

I almost don't dare to ask: Is there a vent hole in the (new) filler cap?

Karl
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Mark Dibben
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Posts: 56



« Reply #106 on: 04 March, 2024, 09:39:32 PM »

News from Chris:

"I fitted the repainted tank straps today and took the car up the road. The fuel pump certainly makes a difference [...]. No fuel starvation, no misfire going up hills, got it up to 55mph on the flat before the turn around spot [which is not far from Chris' workshop; only about a quarter of a mile on from his turn, including a bit of hill and some bends before the straight bit, so methinks this is very good news]. Being able to open the throttle all of the way also makes a difference [Chris had noticed the way the cable was routed was actually stopping this from happening, so he re-routed it]. I have wired [the fuel pump] through a fuse to the ignition switch (the same fuse also supplies the fuel gauge & sender). [Attached a photo] of the tank strap [newly painted; much better!]. I used a strip of rubber to go between the strap and the tank, it isn’t glued, won’t move and is better than the self adhesive foam strip I used before."

I suspect the reason why this tank with the SU needs a fuel pump is because of the narrower drain pipe diameter on this Belna tank than on the original Augusta tank. Ha - perhaps the French didn't intend their version of the car to be driven quite the way Nuvolari intended!

Not sure if the fuel cap is vented Karl. Excellent point, thanks; I'll ask :-)

Next job is the wheel balancing. Chris says the wheel wobble is still there when you go around corners so it's not the bushes, anyway these were replaced when he re-built the suspension. So that rules that out. He did ask whether the Bibendums are naturally out of balance because of the one sided rim arrangement that Michelin's refusal to allow Michelin to use their patented rims necessitated. Anyone know?

Thanks eh, really starting to sense we're getting there now,
Mark




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« Last Edit: 04 March, 2024, 09:50:29 PM by Mark Dibben » Logged
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #107 on: 05 March, 2024, 09:09:13 AM »

Bibendum rims have a welded on balance weight on the inside of the wheel to compensate for the patent avoiding partial well base design so should be in balance. I still suspect the problem is dynamic as  opposed to static balance and what happens if you swap the wheels around? Is it associated with one wheel?


Mike Clark
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donw
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« Reply #108 on: 06 March, 2024, 03:49:27 PM »

I have never had any problems with full throtle on my Belna Coupe (based on a saloon} so gravity fed.
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Don Williamson
Member 111 joined 26th July 1963
1917 Theta 2str
1926 Lambda torpedo
1930 Artena berlina
1933 Belna coupe
Running Board
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Posts: 134



« Reply #109 on: 07 March, 2024, 01:25:28 PM »

I will agree with Don , having worked on 3 Belna's all with standard fuel systems none suffered with fuel starvation , my own car (augusta) did , this was because it had too small of a float valve fitted designed to be run by a pump not gravity feed , changed the float valve, problem solved , common mistake on Augustas seen it on a few
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When it comes to Lancias, mine are State Of The Ark!
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #110 on: 08 March, 2024, 08:35:46 AM »

Good thinking James. My Salmson with an SU and an even lower head between tank and float chamber than the Augusta works perfectly.

I doubt the size of the fuel pipe has anything to do with it.  Think about it, if struggling up a hill at 30mph and running at 10mpg, the rate of fuel flow is 3 gallons per hour which is about one wine glass per minute. The  passages through the float needle valve is far smaller than the slim Belna fuel pipe.

 The odd thing is that the ex Paul car must have worked properly when he owned it as he , like your Dad , was one of the experts to go to to solve Augusta problems.

Another unexplained fact about the ex Paul car is that it has aluminium mudguards rather than steel. It is a particularly handsome car and well worth the effort being put into fixing it.

Mike Clark



« Last Edit: 08 March, 2024, 08:57:10 AM by Mikenoangelo » Logged
Kari
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Posts: 187


« Reply #111 on: 08 March, 2024, 09:43:13 AM »

Hello Mark,

You have reported that you have a fuel pump fitted to your Augusta Berlina. Personally, I think this is the wrong way to go. This is hiding a fault in the fuel supply and/or carburetor. Also, a slightly to high a pressure supplied by the pump will open the float valve against the float, flooding the carburetor. This will create a serious fire danger. I am sure you don't want that.

I am sure, Nuvolari's Augusta didn't have a pump and the Belna's are just as fast as the Gussies.

For the same effort installing the pump, the original fuel tap, line and carburetor could have been sorted. In the Augusta Newsletter No 2 and 3, issued by the late Morris Parry, there is a excellent description and instruction for repair of the fuel tap. If you don't have copies, I'll be glad sending them to you. When using the original set-up you'll have the comfortable choice of a 3-position tap operated from inside the car.

BTW, the inside diameter of the brass tube in the tap is 3,5 mm. I just did my tap a few weeks ago, and I have used material called rubber-cork gasket material with good results.

It's all about having fun driving the Augusta and not to worry.

regards

Karl
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Mark Dibben
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« Reply #112 on: 08 March, 2024, 02:30:02 PM »

Hello Karl,
The inboard fuel tap wasn't working and the one that Paul had fitted into the system just before the carburetor was leaking. Since it was incorporated into the brass pipework it would have meant replacing all the brass-work anyway. I really wanted a modern fuel filter and so we needed a modern fuel line for that; I've seen this set up with a supercharged March special, and this gives me the option of supercharging it more easily in the future, if I decide to do that. Chris had rebuilt the SU carburetor and could find absolutely no fault with it. The 'fall' between the tank and the bowl is less with the SU than the standard OEM one and the diameter of the pipe is definitely narrower on the Belna tank. Nothing else we could do. The pump is a low pressure one; Chris avoided the SU pump purposefully because of its higher pressure.
Cheers, Mark
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Kari
Senior Member
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Posts: 187


« Reply #113 on: 09 March, 2024, 09:00:44 AM »

Hello Mark,

Thanks very much for the detailed info. Just my thoughts as I have seen the handle and the tap installed. Probably earlier pictures.

Anyway, I'll be interested how the system works when you do longer drives, hopefully minus the wheel wobble. Will you be using the free wheel?

If you need any information, please ask, there is plenty.
Regards

Karl
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Mark Dibben
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« Reply #114 on: 13 March, 2024, 01:13:35 PM »

Thanks Karl, ever so much.
The other thing Mike said was that the in-line fuel filters do need a pump; gravity alone won't ensure enough fuel gets through the filter to meet the needs of the carburetor. Probably because the filters were designed assuming a fuel pump.
The wheel wobble is the thing I'm concerned most about actually. Because if it's not wheel balance that's the cause and it's within 0.40' and 0.50' alignment, I start to worry that the big whack it suffered on the nearside front at some time during Paul's ownership (which it must have done, to have broken the spring and cracked the lower guide in the suspension, as well as buckle a rim irreparably) has knocked the chassis out of alignment...
Still, we'll see soon I s'pose, one way or the other.
If the chassis needs realigning... gulp!
Mark
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Mark Dibben
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Posts: 56



« Reply #115 on: 16 March, 2024, 11:54:39 AM »

Here is the latest from Chris McPheat on trying to work out what's causing the wheel wobble, with wheels that were fully refurbished:

"With the tyres removed my guy span them up on his machine and found them to be out of balance, oval and not quite straight. Not to any massive degree in each case but built up they make a difference. I picked the rear wheels up Wednesday, he’d done the same with these. I spoke with Nick Mouat yesterday, I am going to send all 4 wheels back to him to see if he can set them up better than they are, he was happy to do this."
Two years they have been sat on the car, wrong.
Sigh!

Ah well, at least that hopefully rules out a bent chassis. Fingers crossed anyway.

I have spoken to Nick myself and asked him to please only come up with true wheels, however many or however few. Turrino were going to make the spare anyway, as Nick had made four from five. So it'll be a question of Turrino making however many new ones we really need. Because if there is one thing I cannot stand on my cars it's out balance or out of true wheels, or alignment issues. Wheel wobble ruins a fine motorcar!


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Mark Dibben
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Posts: 56



« Reply #116 on: 22 March, 2024, 11:14:13 AM »

For your delight and delectation.
The wheel saga has been resolved, hopefully.
Nick Mouat checked the four wheels and apologised because one of the rims has a crack in it he didn't spot and another one is indeed 'eggy'. The other two have a tiny bit of run out but nothing that would cause wheel wobble. So it's two new rims and new spokes. Plus of course I need a entirely new wheel as one centre of the original 5 and one rim of the original 5 was scrap to start with. 
Spoke with the lovely Fatima at Motor Wheel Services to explore the possibility of standard rims, as that idea occurred to me, however they don't do rolled rims in either a 15.75' or a 16'. They only do those sizes in knife edge rims, per postwar Jaguars and the like. Spoke with Peter Roberts (Roberts Bros in Wales) and he said the same thing. Went to the Classic Motor Hub and they have a prewar Riley on silver 16' knife edge rims, which rather confirms it, but the poor car looks like a modern Morgan. Awful.
It turns out therefore that it's Turrino full stop. Only Turrino do Bibendums and as a result, by default, only they do a 15.75' rolled rim. No rolled rims under 18' otherwise.
So that's it, it has to be the Bibendums from Will there. And Nick is going to do them as soon as he gets them. Went and saw AKVR to update them on timings and all their wheels, be they (Piers waved his hand casually around the workshop) A7 Ulster x3, Amilcar, Bugatti x 2, Lagonda, Rolls Royce Silver Ghost or Vauxhall 30/98, are done by him. So Nick must have just been over optimistic on the two rims off the little Lancia that he now realises are scrap, and it was just unlucky they were both on the front of the car.
Now I just have to wait. Again.
Getting good at waiting.
As soon as they're done, I shall deliver myself to Longstone who have agreed to refit them all with their tyres and then on up to Chris. Put the new rims on the front to make sure it's solved the wheel wobble and then, when it comes down to AKVR, Nick wants Piers to drive the car with the old rim wheels on the front and see what he thinks. And then if needs be we can get those rims changed while AKVR work their marvellous magic on the Augusta.
By the way, they have a very famous (very first RAC rally springs to mind?) DiLambda with a yellow over black English coachbuilt body in the workshop, too, that they are finishing off for Keith the owner. What a car that is!
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