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Author Topic: Flavia re-starting  (Read 1950 times)
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brian
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« on: 18 June, 2014, 08:55:38 AM »

I have read the thread on starting 2000HF problems. My Sport (which does have Solex carbs) is fine starting from cold and runs really well apart from some spluttering at lower revs. Stop for petrol and it needs to stand for 5-10 mins (presumably to cool down) after which it restarts perfectly.
Suggestions to date are:
1. The ethanol in the petrol
2. Coil and/or condenser breaking up (both only done 8k miles from new)
3. Points (as answer for every/anything wrong with an engine)

Is there any way of checking apart from random changing of bits?
Any other ideas?
Brian
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
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Slow but rough


« Reply #1 on: 19 June, 2014, 11:22:07 AM »

Hi
I used to run a Kugelfischer engined coupe and it was a pig to start and restart. Final conclusion was all the rubber fuel pipes had gone rigid and lost their flexibility allowing the fuel pump to suck in air. Something to do with the new petrol I think.
I'd check those first.
Jim
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Fulvia Coupe S2 Flavia Coupe 1967 1.8 Kugelfischer Prisma 1.6 carb Y10 Fila Y10 Touring Dedra 1.8 Dedra 2.0 Turbo Appia S1
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« Reply #2 on: 19 June, 2014, 11:31:02 AM »

I find a full throttle is sometimes needed to restart a hot Flavia or Fulvia, otherwise it just churns the battery. Again modern fuel issue??
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
brian
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« Reply #3 on: 27 June, 2014, 11:08:48 AM »

Sorted! (Hopefully!)
Luckily my daughter has a really good man down in Barnstaple when she borrows the Sport and he has found the problem.
Despite x3 in-line filters, both carbs were fully to bursting with a nasty sludge. This either has been in the tank for a while and built up or we picked up some dodgy fuel just pre-SPR as it was fine 3 weeks earlier at Consortium AGM.
He will put a "proper" filter in as well as replace the plastic ones.
So, not electrical as with 99% of my previous Lancia problems, but was fuel. Probably not ethanol unless this is working on bits of fuel-line and this is the source of the sludge.
MORAL. Don't assume plastic in-line filters are working as they obviously fail if overpowered by sheer volume of stuff.

PS
I still think a rather odd symptom for carburetter problem - but hey what do I know.
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
chriswgawne
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« Reply #4 on: 27 June, 2014, 04:22:38 PM »

Ethanol in modern fuels seems to becoming the 'whipping boy' for all sorts of fuel related problems with older cars.
These problems range from vaporisation to early degradation of rubber fuel lines and everything inbetween. Not sure whare the truth lies but I cant quite believe Brian had a 'dirty fill' unless the fuel station tank was nearly empty (but surely forecourt petrol pumps have filters?).
The only bad experience I have had was with some 1 year old cloth covered rubber fuel line in my race car a few years ago which cracked leading to fuel leaks. At the time I had recently tried some 105 Octane fuel and suqsequenlty I have used Shell standard high octane without any issues.
As to vaporisation, it is not uncommon for Aurelia owners to fit a 'return' to the tak thus ensuring that cool fuel is continually circulating if one is stuck in traffic say on a hot day. I havent done this (yet) but my electric fuel pump is low down at the front ahead of the radiator.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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bobhenry999
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« Reply #5 on: 27 June, 2014, 09:21:43 PM »

I have a similar problem with my 815 Coupe Variante 1005 ( Nardi)

If I leave it a week or two, it takes quite a few churns of the starter before it fires, once it has, it starts instantly on the button for the rest of the day.

If I only leave it a couple of days, its starts instantly.

It always starts eventually, and as I have it on a trickle charger i don`t worry about it, but it is strange as no other Flavia i have owned has done this.

Bob
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fay66
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« Reply #6 on: 28 June, 2014, 12:34:05 AM »

Sorted! (Hopefully!)
Luckily my daughter has a really good man down in Barnstaple when she borrows the Sport and he has found the problem.
Despite x3 in-line filters, both carbs were fully to bursting with a nasty sludge. This either has been in the tank for a while and built up or we picked up some dodgy fuel just pre-SPR as it was fine 3 weeks earlier at Consortium AGM.
He will put a "proper" filter in as well as replace the plastic ones.
So, not electrical as with 99% of my previous Lancia problems, but was fuel. Probably not ethanol unless this is working on bits of fuel-line and this is the source of the sludge.
MORAL. Don't assume plastic in-line filters are working as they obviously fail if overpowered by sheer volume of stuff.

PS
I still think a rather odd symptom for carburetter problem - but hey what do I know.

I cleaned out the glass bowl of my 'Filter King' I fitted to my Fulvia the other day, and there was a lot of brown sludge in there, it's sometime since I cleaned it out so the filter is doing it's job well, I also checked the filters on the top of each carb and they were as clean as a whistle with no sign of anything getting past the filter.

Brian
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« Reply #7 on: 28 June, 2014, 12:39:19 AM »

I have a similar problem with my 815 Coupe Variante 1005 ( Nardi)

If I leave it a week or two, it takes quite a few churns of the starter before it fires, once it has, it starts instantly on the button for the rest of the day.

If I only leave it a couple of days, its starts instantly.

It always starts eventually, and as I have it on a trickle charger i don`t worry about it, but it is strange as no other Flavia i have owned has done this.

Bob
Bob,
 this is a common problem on Fulvias which is why so many of us have fitted, and recommend fitting an electric fuel pump, usually as an additional pump just used for priming, or going completely over to an electric pump.
In my case I just use it to prime the carbs, as even after only one day she will just churn away until the fuel gets up if you rely on the mechanical pump only.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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« Reply #8 on: 28 June, 2014, 07:57:08 AM »


Bob,
 this is a common problem on Fulvias which is why so many of us have fitted, and recommend fitting an electric fuel pump, usually as an additional pump just used for priming, or going completely over to an electric pump.
In my case I just use it to prime the carbs, as even after only one day she will just churn away until the fuel gets up if you rely on the mechanical pump only.

Brian
8227 Cool
Dont all Flavia's have electric pumps? I switch the ignition on my Vignale - wait till the pump ticking slows down then press and it always starts on the button.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
brian
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« Reply #9 on: 25 August, 2014, 04:58:42 PM »

Sport saga continued!
Daughter was driving back from Devon in stop-go traffic in outside lane of M42 and stopped never to go again. No hazard lights on Sport - yet!
Green Flag brilliant and go to her in 20 mins. Police c**p as denied there was an exit with the number she was reading off the sign and when arrived after 90 mins they told Green Flag man he was breaking the law by stopping behind her with hazard lights going. Said he should have pushed car across 4 lanes of traffic (as was M6 exit) onto hard shoulder.

Green Flag man reckoned electrical problem.
Once home I took the coil off the B10 and it started instantly using that - sludge a contributory factor but was coil all the time I reckon.

Still not wonderful starting when hot!!

Brian
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
bobhenry999
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« Reply #10 on: 26 August, 2014, 10:01:43 PM »

Further to my starting problems after leaving the car for a week or so, I have finally cured it this week.

I spent some time thinking (Honest) about the problem, and decided that as the fuel line in the engine bay runs upwards to my in line filter before going on to the carb, the fuel was draining out of the filter back down the fuel line, which was causing a negative pressure in the fuel line between the filter and carb, which was causing the fuel to be siphoned out of the float bowl.

Hence, when I attempted to start it after some days, it would churn and churn until the fuel was pumped up to the filter and then the carb, and then fire. after that of course, it fired instantly.

So, I simply fitted an in line one way valve between the filter and carb so that it wouldn`t drain the float chamber, even though the fuel filter was drained empty when I checked, and hey presto it started almost instantly after sitting for 2 weeks ! So problem (For me anyway) solved.

Now, how about having Omicron fit one of their electronic ignition systems to it, any thoughts chaps ?

Bob

Bob
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