Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
18 April, 2019, 09:22:24 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 29   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Everyday Appia  (Read 60459 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #15 on: 11 March, 2014, 08:10:55 PM »

David - yes painted directly onto the fertan, v quick scothbrite to remove any loose oxidation, then sprayed with stone-chip, not perfect but very acceptable

Andy - very lucky that the floors are as good as they are. Worst bit is the rear valance but apparently that is normal and should be easy to fabricate.

P - don't tempt with such delicacies - Jules would not approve !



The paraffin has worked its magic, engine turns over nicely - paraffin pouring out of the inlet manifold and exhaust manifolds ....... A couple of the valves are still a bit lazy, but all OK. Still planning to strip the engine and see how it works
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #16 on: 12 March, 2014, 10:17:20 PM »

Today - "A Little Shop of Horrors" !

The engine is turning over nicely, so it meant I could remove the gearbox. It is very similar to an Aprilia in that you remove an inspection plate on the bottom of the box and rotate the engine to get at each of the 8 (6 on an Aprilia) clutch cover bolts. Once done, you undo the bell housing bolts and lift off the 'box.

Then you undo the central peg-bolt on the fork so you can slide off the plate and cover. Last thing to do is push out the fork rod, taking the clutch arm with it.

First problem was the flywheel, I put the engine at TDC on #1 cyl (checked it was on firing stroke etc) and looked for the "0" mark. No mark ! After careful cleaning of the teeth I found it 90 around the flywheel, so the flywheel has been off and put back in the wrong place ...... would have made timing interesting

Next, I couldn't undo the sump plug, so I undid the sump bolts with a large bowl underneath. Bit surprised when water started cascading out in pretty rivulets ..... not normal I thought. Then the oil came out - but is was red ! I had put some paraffin down the bores, but not that much. When the sump came off, it was a real mess in there, so it means rather more investigation .....

When draining the oli/water from the bowl, I did find a core-plug in the bottom (not rusty) so I suspect that the engine has popped one of its core plugs whilst standing in sub-zero temps. Hopefully they did their job and protected the block and the engine has not been run since, so fingers crossed


* DSCN0733.jpg (72.06 KB, 640x480 - viewed 482 times.)

* DSCN0735.jpg (60.18 KB, 480x640 - viewed 475 times.)

* DSCN0740.jpg (66.67 KB, 640x480 - viewed 477 times.)

* DSCN0741.jpg (63.2 KB, 640x480 - viewed 483 times.)

* DSCN0742.jpg (74.17 KB, 640x480 - viewed 486 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
Parisien
Administrator
Permanent resident
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3721



« Reply #17 on: 12 March, 2014, 10:20:17 PM »

Oh dear....hoping its not as bad as it looks, fingers crossed


P
Logged

Frank Gallagher
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #18 on: 13 March, 2014, 09:52:16 PM »

Frank - we'll see !

Cleaned up some more of the floor today , just the driver's floor to do.

Plus , started putting the final bits together for the furgoncino engine. Great help having the 3rd series along side .... cleaned up some bits ready to go back on


* DSCN0748.jpg (55.15 KB, 640x480 - viewed 466 times.)

* DSCN0755.jpg (75.7 KB, 640x480 - viewed 466 times.)

* DSCN0756.jpg (64.67 KB, 640x480 - viewed 464 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
Parisien
Administrator
Permanent resident
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3721



« Reply #19 on: 14 March, 2014, 08:45:56 AM »

Simon, you're like an English version of that cartoon character the Tasmanian devil......you just blitz things and days later the whole thing is nearly finished!

Great stuff, will have to pick your brains some more


P
Logged

Frank Gallagher
DavidLaver
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 3775



« Reply #20 on: 14 March, 2014, 11:07:15 AM »


Simon - its starting to look like someone cares!!   If there is a "serious problem" with the engine I can't see it setting you back more than an extra day and a half...

Frank - what I like about this forum is that while Simon or James can make more progress in a week than me in a year it shows that what CAN be achieved in short order if that time were to be available.  Robin's Fanalone for the NEC thread is another I turn to in the "will it ever get done" mood.  My windfall tree and hedge is out of the way now, "just" a concrete retaining wall, fence, trellises, replant to do before I can get back to the cars - or the rest of the garden, diy, kids activities.

David
Logged

David Laver, Lewisham.
Dikappa
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 231


« Reply #21 on: 14 March, 2014, 04:15:52 PM »

Oh dear, that does look messy!  Indeed hopefully there is no real damage!

Simon, have you compered the series 3 berlina engine to the furgone engine?  The rocker covers on the furgone seem series 3, but al the other mechanical parts seem more like series 1 to me?

Maybe an interesting comparison having both together on the bench...
Logged
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #22 on: 14 March, 2014, 06:43:53 PM »

Have been working on both today. The head has most differences, the heater take off is on the back of the head on the van (square valve on top for 3rd series) , other blanking plates and undrilled castings are the main differences. The furgoncino head is a '58 and the 3rd a '62.

Other obvious differences are the dynamo and fuel pump, the flexi to the oil gauge and the front pulley nut - the 3rd series has no starting handle option.

Otherwise, the furgoncino engine is ready to be coupled up to the gearbox and can then they can go in. I finished the bottom end today. The picture of the sump shows 4 short pieces of threaded rod used to hold the gasket in place whilst fitting the rest of the bolts . Couple of photos of the heater tap, before (degreased) and in bits

The 3rd series engine may not be too bad...... I took the oil pump off and it was still filled with clean (albeit red) oil and it was definitely a core plug that went (poor photo with long screwdriver showing the hole). I will separate the block from the crankcase and do all the core-plugs at the same time.


* DSCN0760.jpg (66.1 KB, 480x640 - viewed 436 times.)

* DSCN0761.jpg (60.57 KB, 480x640 - viewed 444 times.)

* DSCN0758.jpg (75.56 KB, 640x480 - viewed 451 times.)

* DSCN0759.jpg (44.35 KB, 640x480 - viewed 433 times.)

* DSCN0763.jpg (79.51 KB, 640x480 - viewed 441 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #23 on: 17 March, 2014, 06:09:43 PM »

Been quite busy, finished the driver's floorpan, then tiger-sealed all the seams before painting the whole lot in black ...... looks nice !

Whilst waiting for the paint to dry, I took the 3rd series engine apart so I can see what it needs before ordering the bits from the Appia Consortium.
Fortunately , not as bad as feared. The head came off quite easily. Once the rockers, headnuts and pushrods were out, I lifted the the engine by the head, hovering 1/2 inch above the bench .Using a rubber hammer and then a wooden wedge, worked the head off, lifting the engine a bit at a time in case it came off in one go !

The headbolts have 3 washers under each nut, a copper one against the head and then 2 more above that. Nuts removed in the correct order !

The bigends are very nice, on a couple they are just wearing through to the copper on the upper bearing, but no scoring and even wear across the surface. Having measured the bigends, they are 46mm suggesting that they are standard, so a new set of bearings is all that is required.

The pistons are standard 68mm and not overbored. You can just feel a slight lip at the top of the bore, but not enough for a rebore/new pistons. The only thing that I will need to deal with are the top rings which are a bit floppy ! A new set of top rings may be enough , otherwise I will have to machine the grooves and find some oversize rings. On the calipers, it seems that the play is a mix of groove wear and ring wear so let's see !

No rings broken , but all the oil rings are stuck along with the one above. If I am careful, I should be able to free them all off. I am not planning to remove the mains, considering the good condition of the other bearings, they should be OK and to remove them means a lot more work and retime-ing the engine, which I would rather not do ! (I sought a second opinion on this !)

Next is to remove the block from the crank-case so I can replace the core-plugs. I think I can do this without disturbing the cams/mains/timing but need to check before I start ....

Could have been a lot worse !


* DSCN0765.jpg (50.98 KB, 640x480 - viewed 411 times.)

* DSCN0777.jpg (68.13 KB, 640x480 - viewed 411 times.)

* DSCN0770.jpg (59.62 KB, 480x640 - viewed 417 times.)

* DSCN0771.jpg (68.19 KB, 480x640 - viewed 415 times.)

* DSCN0780.jpg (58.58 KB, 640x480 - viewed 412 times.)

* DSCN0782.jpg (79.75 KB, 640x480 - viewed 408 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
DavidLaver
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 3775



« Reply #24 on: 17 March, 2014, 07:39:25 PM »


How much effort would it be to re-time it if you did want to look at the mains?

David
Logged

David Laver, Lewisham.
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #25 on: 17 March, 2014, 07:58:27 PM »

It is probably less the re-timing and more about disturbing the mains, they are full circle bearings. They do not have bolted caps so are not straight forward to check. The mains sit in castings at the front and back of the crank (2 bearings only) so you need to remove everything to get at the castings and then the castings can be difficult to remove.

Going back to the original remit - keep it quick and simple

The engine seems very good, I would be surprised if there was a mains problem, so I'll take the risk .....
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 1902



« Reply #26 on: 18 March, 2014, 06:11:40 PM »

Bit of Bling today

Before and after showing the seats. They cleaned up nicely but the shampoo could not do much to repair the water and mouse-damage in one corner. Although the damage is not visible once fitted, I will have to remove the cover at some point and resew it.

Fitted a new panel behind the seat as well, although this may have been fabric originally - I don't know because nothing was there !

I didn't have the seat frame in tan (replacement seats) , just the original grey, so I took the damaged vinyl off and polished the aluminium (!!) frame. The sill covers and the parcel shelf are polished aluminium as well so it's not too outrageous ....

Next thing is to repair the tunnel cover and seat support, made from pressed ally sheet and mortice and tenon jointed wood frame, lined with cloth and webbing - completely mad piece of over-design, but you get used to that with Lancias ...... especially Appias


* DSCN0784.jpg (57.9 KB, 640x480 - viewed 394 times.)

* DSCN0783.jpg (78.81 KB, 640x480 - viewed 402 times.)

* DSCN0788.jpg (37.67 KB, 640x480 - viewed 397 times.)

* DSCN0785.jpg (49.93 KB, 640x480 - viewed 395 times.)

* DSCN0791.jpg (63.22 KB, 640x480 - viewed 396 times.)

* DSCN0789.jpg (30.16 KB, 640x480 - viewed 397 times.)

* DSCN0790.jpg (47.28 KB, 480x640 - viewed 388 times.)

* DSCN0786.jpg (47.54 KB, 640x480 - viewed 392 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
Dikappa
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 231


« Reply #27 on: 18 March, 2014, 06:27:47 PM »

This posting is the 'how to restore a car in two weeks'.  My postings are the 'how to restore a car in ten years' kind....

Simon,

Were you able to check if there's a lot of dirt in the crankshaft oilways?  As in the superjolly engine I was very surprized how much I got to clean out.
When moving a drill through the oil holes of the big ends it came out full of 'grey mass', which prompted me to take the engine apart for cleaning/inspection. 
Logged
Parisien
Administrator
Permanent resident
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3721



« Reply #28 on: 18 March, 2014, 06:59:18 PM »

This posting is the 'how to restore a car in two weeks'.  My postings are the 'how to restore a car in ten years' kind....

Simon,



Couldn't agree more Dikappa, hes like a one man factory production line......brilliant!

P

PS Dikappa you have mail
Logged

Frank Gallagher
DavidLaver
Permanent resident
**
Online Online

Posts: 3775



« Reply #29 on: 18 March, 2014, 07:10:09 PM »


I like the ali seat trim.  Got a photo of the wood bit?

David
Logged

David Laver, Lewisham.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 29   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2018 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines