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Author Topic: Fulvia Alternator replacement  (Read 9806 times)
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Mark Webb
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« on: 29 June, 2007, 06:34:33 PM »

Has anyone tried to find a suitable modern replacement for the old Ducellier ( generally reliable if the regulator points are kept clean and adjusted) or Bosch (hopeless in my experience!) alternators. The return journey from the Festival of Speed showed up a distinct lack of amps from the alternator due to everything being switched on in the bad weather. Normally the battery survives but has always had a habit of being flat when you least expect it and it was and I didn't!
This is the second time its let me down on the way back from Goodwood and if I do nothing else I'm replacing the clock with a Voltmeter!
Having fitted an new regulator the year before last, then last year the brush holder gave out and was replaced by a brush holder with integral regulator, now I would think a diode is faulty.
Hopefully something new will fit and would be lighter and more efficient than the original, Bosch in this case. I could fit a Ducellier if I could be bothered to fit the regulator box and make up a loom for it but a modern equivalent would be a better long term solution and originality is not an issue.
Any ideas?

Mark
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Andy M-M
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« Reply #1 on: 12 July, 2007, 05:49:08 PM »

Hi Mark,

Maybe the problem is all the ancillary extra`s that Peter fitted to the car, only joking..
I must admit when my clock stopped working, the volt meter was the perfect replacement. However I`m still running my ducellier without too much trouble.
Hope you are keeping well, cheers.
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Mark Webb
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« Reply #2 on: 12 July, 2007, 06:06:08 PM »

Hi Andy

Yes the extras don't help much, but it does not have a radio fitted, the stereo originally took up most of the boot space but was removed as he had something else planned. To be fair I did have just about everything on AND the engine fan on overide all the way home!
Maybe I will measure up an alternator and take a ruler to the next autojumble.

Hope you are keeping well.

Mark
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fay66
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« Reply #3 on: 13 July, 2007, 01:42:50 AM »

Friend with an Appia GTE has just fitted one,  he went to a breaker dealing in Japanese cars  Grin as he needed something tiny to fit.

Came away with, I think, one about 4.1/2 inches in Diameter + as per all alternators about 1/2 the length of the dynamo.

I believe it came from something small like an early Micra & cost about 15 ! Shocked had to make up his own mounting bracket & slightly modify the wiring.
We have an Japanese  Grin specialist breaker near here, so the next time I'm out with my Fulvia 2c I'll call in, if I can get one that fits the 2c, coupe owners should have no problem as the space available between the dynamo pulley & the radiator is much tighter than it was on my 1.3 Rallye Coupe.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Mark Webb
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« Reply #4 on: 13 July, 2007, 06:10:59 PM »

Hi Brian

I thought that something would be available, I think that the 2C 1st series block may have different mounting points than the 2nd series but would be interested to find out what fits. Certainly more efficient than a dynamo anyway!
I have no issues about using modern parts rather than strugging with supposedly recon items, one of the few advantages of newer cars is alternator charging current as they have so much rubbish to power up.

Mark
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fay66
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« Reply #5 on: 13 July, 2007, 08:54:56 PM »

Hi Mark,

I think it will depend on which engine size you have, I know Robin Lacey's old 2c had it's 1091cc changed for 1300 2nd series , I think from a Coupe, & whoever did the job tried to retain the dynamo but as the mounting point was intended for an alternator, the angle the fan belt was trying to cope with was unbelievable!
I'll keep you posted.

Brian Hilton
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Dilambdaman
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« Reply #6 on: 13 July, 2007, 10:41:48 PM »

Hi Mark,

I know Robin Lacey's old 2c had it's 1091cc changed for 1300 2nd series ,

Brian Hilton
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Not while I owned it I hasten to point out!

Robin.
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Robin Lacey 3222

1932 Dilambda
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fay66
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« Reply #7 on: 13 July, 2007, 11:44:13 PM »

Hi Robin,

Sorry, I really meant to put a disclaimer in on your behalf Roll Eyes, whoever put 1300cc engine in after you sold it, made a right hash of it.
The current owner in Ireland has had it restored & made a fine job of it, pity he had to sort out someone elses cock up.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #8 on: 20 July, 2007, 07:30:43 PM »

The 2CV has a TINY alternator.  I'll try one of my spare ones on my 1500 perhaps (very cramped)
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
lancialulu
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« Reply #9 on: 20 July, 2007, 08:50:25 PM »

My 1600 Zagato came with a Lucas LRA 313 alternator which is larger and more  powerful than the standard Bosch unit. From the vehicle history the previous owner sourced it to sought out forever failing battery issues on full load. This alternator requires a slightly longer belt (by a couple of centimtres) and has onboard regulation.

However....... I found an electrical fault where one of the lighting relays was drawing current all the time and reasoned that this was the cause of the problem and my other fulvias never had this problem. (Drove through the night to Turin and back withour a problem), so I refitted the spare Bosch alternator. Purpose of this story is check the electrics for quiecent current (ie when all is off) - should only be the clock if fitted (and any alarm) which is minimal. If you still have problems check the battery is capable of taking the alternator charge and then fit a Lucas Alternator!!!!!!!! Huh?

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Mark Webb
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« Reply #10 on: 21 July, 2007, 02:55:23 PM »

Sounds interesting will look out for the Lucas LRA313, though I am reminded of the why do the british drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators stickers seen in the states!
Have checked for Quiescent current but as its only about 50 ma hardly a problem but the car does have a history of flat batteries over many years now with me and Peter.
I isolate the car before leaving it and its consumed 3 batteries in the past 5 years and Peter fitted a couple as well!


Mark
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lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 21 July, 2007, 06:21:38 PM »

Could be your current (pun intended) alternator is frying the batteries (through improper voltage regulation???).

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Mark Webb
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« Reply #12 on: 23 July, 2007, 09:17:30 AM »

The regulator is limiting at 14 odd volts(checked with a reliable meter) and its had two new regulators as well however I have not checked the maximum current as my meters do not exceed 20A and I rarely get anywhere near measuring that at home. Maybe we have something at work but my line is more Radio Frequency (VHF/UHF and Kilowatts of it!) than DC.
I think the alternator is maybe not reliable on a run as thats when it seems to give the most trouble (especially Goodwood events strangely enough). Maybe the diode pack is breaking down with temperature but to be honest I think I've wasted enough effort on this particular alternator and think the Lucas sounds an interesting alternative.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #13 on: 23 July, 2007, 10:55:03 AM »

Mark

I now remember a problem diagnosed on a ducillier alternator I had refurbished by a local specialist. After replacing the diode pack to correct a problem connected with the charging light never going out, it was discovered that the rotot had an intermittent fault to eather therby from time to time producing on charge. Luckliy I had a spare in a gash alternator and now have a fully refurbed and tested ducillier spare. My lesson is that alternators are best taken to a specialist where they have the appropriate test gear. You can find these in your yellow pages. Interestingly the ducellier uses a smaller shaft diameter than the now standard (bosch is not affected) so sourcing a replacement rotor would have been challenging and a rewind was possibly the only solution.

Anyway, the Lucas (if you can still get it) is a big bugger but will fit under the carbs (same mountings as standard) but you must use a smaller belt to stop it fouling the drip tray.

Tim

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Mark Webb
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« Reply #14 on: 23 July, 2007, 01:32:50 PM »

OK Tim, being lazy I didn't think about measuring the resistance of the wire from the alternator and then volts drop across it to get the current supplied, may be worth a try just to confirm things. Having spent too much time on the Bosch I think a newer replacement is a good idea, finding a reliable local reCONditioner may be a problem anyway!

Mark
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