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Author Topic: 2C Help please  (Read 5784 times)
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blueboxer
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« on: 13 April, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »

Hi,

I've noticed the radiator in my 2C just doesn't look right. It looks too big. I suspect it is from another variant as the top hose slightly fouls the bonnet latch and is risking getting punctured. I'd be grateful if someone could post a pic or send me a pic of the correct rad in situ from their 2C.

Has anybody gone for an upgraded/better fan?

It looks like I will have to replace the rubber carb mounts as I've noticed these are perished and the car is lumpy/flat/hesitant at 2-3000 rpm so I'm suspecting (hoping) that air is being sucked in. Where would I get the carb mounts from?




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Feb 1965 RHD Fulvia 2C (still running it's original engine and gearbox) and quite a few others of various marques
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #1 on: 13 April, 2013, 01:54:40 PM »

I have not upgraded a fan, but I did have an  uprated core fitted to one of my Fulvia radiators. This provided sufficient heat exchange in all conditions. To test for air leaks I am told it is common practise to spray 'easy strart' or similar on the suspect area, and note any change in engine running. I know that the carb rubber mounts can perish, but some I have had seem to have the bores made from a different material. Hopefully your  airfilter housing support is in place. Richard
« Last Edit: 15 April, 2013, 07:01:58 AM by Richard Fridd » Logged

Richard Nevison Fridd
fay66
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« Reply #2 on: 14 April, 2013, 12:20:15 AM »

Hi,
I've noticed the radiator in my 2C just doesn't look right. It looks too big. I suspect it is from another variant as the top hose slightly fouls the bonnet latch and is risking getting punctured. I'd be grateful if someone could post a pic or send me a pic of the correct rad in situ from their 2C.
Has anybody gone for an upgraded/better fan?
It looks like I will have to replace the rubber carb mounts as I've noticed these are perished and the car is lumpy/flat/hesitant at 2-3000 rpm so I'm suspecting (hoping) that air is being sucked in. Where would I get the carb mounts from?

The gap between the hose and the bonnet catch on 2c's is marginal and I had to tweak mine a bit.
Never felt the need to upgrade the fan as I love the workmanship of the pillar and fan, it's so elegant, you can fit a series 2 electric fan but you need the radiator electric fan and shroud for the fan as well as wiring it up, never really had any problems with mine as far as normal cooling is concerned, even climbing the Alps on the way home from Turin.
Re Carb mounts, how bad are yours have you any photos please, 2c's have two seperate mounts, one for each carb whereas 1298cc engines have one piece component that fits both carbs, although I'm not sure if they will fit the 1091cc engine, they are hard to get hold of and don't come cheap and you're probably looking at well over 100 unless you're lucky, I'd be more inclined to try setting up the carbs first, if you're really stuck any time I still have the pair of Solex 32's that were overhauled when my restoration was carried out 1997-19999, but they didn't have much use as in about 2001 I changed them for Dellorto 32 DHLB's, which were well worth fitting.
If you need anymore photos let me know, just a thought have you checked the condition of the bush in the steady bar that supports the underside of the carburettors?

Brian
8227 Cool


* DSCF0036 copy.jpg (376.94 KB, 1542x1126 - viewed 151 times.)

* 1091cc of Raw Power.jpg (403.82 KB, 2592x1944 - viewed 140 times.)

* Air Cleaner Side.jpg (424 KB, 2592x1944 - viewed 136 times.)

* Cambox Side 1.jpg (441.08 KB, 2592x1920 - viewed 141 times.)
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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fay66
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« Reply #3 on: 14 April, 2013, 12:33:36 AM »

More photos

Please note the bottom hose already attached to radiator, it is near impossible to fit this hose when radiator is in the car, and I usually tighten the clip up where the hose goes to the bottom of the rad, it's then a bit of a struggle to fit the other end of the hose to the bottom of the water pump, it's tricky and hard to do, but is possible from underneath.
Coupes have more more clearance as well as the hood rail being lower.
Now that Silicone hoses are available, the next time I have to have the radiator out, I will fit silicone hoses, although a bit expensive they shouldn't ever need replacing.

Brian
8227 Cool


* Repaired Radiator Front.jpg (483.19 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 130 times.)

* repaired Radiator rear.jpg (460.71 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 125 times.)

* Shutter Actuating Mechanism.jpg (182.13 KB, 908x764 - viewed 125 times.)

* Shutter installed to Rad.jpg (477.99 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 130 times.)
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2013, 12:42:47 AM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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fay66
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« Reply #4 on: 14 April, 2013, 12:47:11 AM »

I have not upgraded a fan, but I did have an  uprated core fitted to one of my Fulvia radiators. This provided sufficient heat exchange in all conditions. To test for air leaks I am told it is common practise to spray 'easy strart' or similar on the suspect area, and note any change in engine running. I know that the carb rubber mounts can perish, but some I have had seem to have the bores made from a different material. Hopefully the airfilter housing support is in place. Richard

They also have different bore sizes depending on the choke size of the Carburettors.
It's also possible for the header tank to be fitted to the core the wrong way around, once after a rebuild it looked ok but I just couldn't get it in, after a close look I realised the header tank had been fitted incorrectly.
Once this was rectified it fitted, although removing or replacing the rad on a 2c can never be called easy or straightforward.
Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Richard Fridd
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« Reply #5 on: 14 April, 2013, 09:11:38 AM »

That's a smart engine bay Brian, there is some carb stuff here http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=142841&page=4


* IMG_5093_zps5a77c601.jpg (74.01 KB, 800x533 - viewed 136 times.)
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2013, 09:14:38 AM by Richard Fridd » Logged

Richard Nevison Fridd
fay66
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« Reply #6 on: 14 April, 2013, 10:24:28 AM »


Thanks Richard,
They're a mixture of old and new photos, so it's not quite as good as it looks at present until the better weather comes & I can have a good clean up.
Liked the article and very good explanations & photos of the work carried out, however I do think he'd done better to join the LMC and the Forum instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, as many of his problems and cures are well known, he could even have hired the wheel bearing tools!

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
blueboxer
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« Reply #7 on: 14 April, 2013, 12:59:46 PM »

Many thanks for the replies.

Here are some photos. The carbs have an ITG filter and I've noticed this is unsupported so although it's not heavy, I do think it's heavy enough to put pressure on the carbs mounts, hence them splitting. The splits are quite bad and I'm convinced is likely to be the cause of the big flat spot.
Also, I've noticed the ITG filter fouls the radiator slight and maybe pushes it more towards the bonnet cable. That said, Brian's photo also shows there is little space between the top hose and bonnet catch. Also, your rad looks the same so maybe in my case, it's the airfilter that is causing the problem by moving the radiator very slightly.
Obviously, part of the reason for my posting was that I overheated the day before yesterday. Now, my very clean engine bay is covered in nasty brown spray from the radiator. Looks like I'll be spending the afternoon giving it a good clean!


* photo2c1.JPG (475.07 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 114 times.)

* photo2c2.JPG (598.63 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 139 times.)

* photo2c3.JPG (557.77 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 117 times.)
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2013, 01:30:51 PM by blueboxer » Logged

Feb 1965 RHD Fulvia 2C (still running it's original engine and gearbox) and quite a few others of various marques
blueboxer
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« Reply #8 on: 14 April, 2013, 01:32:51 PM »

more pics


* photo2c6.JPG (473 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 127 times.)

* photo2c5.JPG (539.46 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 145 times.)

* photo2c4.JPG (448.54 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 116 times.)
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Feb 1965 RHD Fulvia 2C (still running it's original engine and gearbox) and quite a few others of various marques
fay66
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« Reply #9 on: 14 April, 2013, 11:15:09 PM »

Looks like you could probably getaway by re-profiling the end of the air cleaner mounting to give you the clearance you need.

Certainly looks as though the carb mounting rubbers are shot and could well be the cause of your running problems, if you can get hold of any it might be worth trying 'Comma Seek & Seal' it's a windscreen rubber treatment that is liquid and will normally seek out any gaps and then sets to stop a water leak, I don't see any good reason why it wouldn't work on your carb mountings, just a case of stopping an air leak rather than water, it also stays flexible, so unless the rubber tears away from the metal there's a good chance it might help, or if nothing else prove if that is what is affecting your running.

Brian
8227 Cool
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2013, 11:17:14 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
chriswgawne
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« Reply #10 on: 15 April, 2013, 06:20:31 AM »

Brian,
What a wonderfully clean detailed engine bay on your car. I dont think I have ever seen it 'live' so I really look forward to that.
Richard,
IMHO you must have the support bar for the carbs fitted. Thier weight is not inconsiderable and whilst you may well be able to repair the rubber mounts in the way Brian suggests (in the 70's before silicon rubber was available I always used copious quantities of bicyclye repair kit rubber solution), if you dont supoport the carbs this will most likely be an ongong problem. Why no go back to the original air filter assembly?
Chris
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #11 on: 15 April, 2013, 08:31:56 AM »


From that RetroRides thread:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shoe-Goo-Black/dp/B001AAWPWK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1366014652&sr=8-5&keywords=shoe-goo
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #12 on: 15 April, 2013, 09:29:49 AM »

'Room Temperature Vulcanizing Rubber' is one name that springs to mind for a suitable repair material
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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« Reply #13 on: 15 April, 2013, 12:49:46 PM »

If by any chance you still have a flat spot after curing those terrible leaks, check out my thread on carburettor tuning on which I was advised to fit larger slow running jets which helped enormously.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
fay66
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« Reply #14 on: 15 April, 2013, 02:37:28 PM »


And the right colour!

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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