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Author Topic: Finally home  (Read 13133 times)
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kernow
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« Reply #30 on: 12 May, 2012, 05:33:03 PM »


Chris, was is the temperature gauge reading?
Brian
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Temp was about 180, was maybe 190 when the fan kicks in. When I topped up the rad it drank about 1/2 litre so that probably contributed to it getting hot.

Cheers

Chris
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fay66
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« Reply #31 on: 12 May, 2012, 05:44:54 PM »


Chris, was is the temperature gauge reading?
Brian
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Temp was about 180, was maybe 190 when the fan kicks in. When I topped up the rad it drank about 1/2 litre so that probably contributed to it getting hot.

Cheers

Chris

That sounds ok so it will be well worth changing the seal and seeing what difference that makes, I would have though a seal off of most rad caps would do the trick, or make one up from sheet rubber.

Brian
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« Reply #32 on: 14 May, 2012, 08:10:53 AM »


It is still venting steam through the pressure release pipe, though only for a couple of minutes. Fan did come on reversing into the drive and letting the car idle after the second run. However, the seal on the cap seems shot (see image) so thinking this is probably the culprit? Is the seal an easy find? As you can see water level has really dropped - was above the core, now below. Have checked oil level which is fine and no mayonnaise so suspect seal rather than head gasket...


Chris

are you sure the water is escaping from the vent pipe?? Is rad water on the subframe or your driveway? As mentioned before once the level goes below what your photo kinda shows  then circulation of water is compromised.

Tim
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1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
kernow
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« Reply #33 on: 14 May, 2012, 09:54:36 AM »

Hi Tim,

Seems to be I start with the water at the correct level, take the car for a 5 min spin, pull back onto the drive, leave the engine running, pop the bonnet, and there is steam venting from the pipe.

If I leave the car on the drive ticking over, it doesn't seem to really overheat. Needs running to overheat. I've ordered a new rad cap as they are cheap and I'm desperately crossing my fingers that it's not a cylinder head gasket problem. I'm also going to take a smaple of the rad water and get it tested for exhaust gases.

If it turns out to be a head gasket, is it usually just the head that warps and needs skimming or do you need to drop the whole engine out?

Cheers

Chris

PS brakes seem to have freed off. Plus, spent a whole day stripping out and cleaning the interior. After 15 years or so in a garage it was pretty horrid. There was a mouse nest in the engine bay when I went to see the car - found another under the drivers seat. All clean now.
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fay66
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« Reply #34 on: 14 May, 2012, 10:23:59 AM »

Chris,
I was having problems with overheating on my 2c, I'd fitted a new thermostat, after having all the usual leak and compression tests to see if that was the problem I took the thermostat out and the problem went away, on the viva-lancia.com site there is a discussion from a few years ago about similar problems, and it seems that sometime back in the early 2000's a bad batch of thermostats were produced with a huge reduction in flow and they also didn't have a relief/bypass hole in the face of the thermostat, I bought what appears to be two of this batch from Italy that were advertised a new/old stock.
I have grille cover that I used during the winter to help with getting up to temperature and she would normally run at 160/170f, I still haven't got around to drilling a relief hole in these to see if that makes a difference, as you have to screw the thermostat into the housing to determine where 'top' is so I can drill the hole in the right place.
I also understand Omicron state that there should be a relief/bypass hole. 

so before you think about the possibility of warped haeds etc it might be worth removing and checking the thermostat itself.

Brian
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« Reply #35 on: 14 May, 2012, 10:52:53 AM »

I agree with all these earlier comments about oil pressure. When hot there is hardly anything indicated on the gauge, but once the revs build up all seems OK the needle is just about visible in the photo below.

When I had a Flavia this was also true. It never happened to me, but there was a common story that because the timing chain tensioner was pressure-fed then with low pressure at tick-over there was a risk of the chain jumping a tooth and wrecking the engine. Can this be true I wonder, and if so, is it true for Fulvias too?

Colin


My brother in law worked at Rob Walkers when it was a Lancia agency. When he found out I had a Fulvia he said he remembered them all being lined up outside in pastel metallic colours. The only thing he warned me about was not to roll it backwards and lazily stop it by lifting the clutch. He said this can make the timing chain slip a tooth or two.
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« Reply #36 on: 14 May, 2012, 05:20:39 PM »

Chris

As Brian said - thermostat first. However, The block or more likely the radiator could just have silted up a waterway from rust over long term storage, but you would see a lot of rusty residue in the water. Have you drained it to find out how clean. Anyway the head can come off in situ.

Brian - not sure if the hole in the thermostat needs to be any particular position when the stat is fitted??? as it surely is a sort of crude bypass when the stat is shut (it is not 100% seal when shut anyway), so go on get your drill out...

Tim
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1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
kernow
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« Reply #37 on: 14 May, 2012, 05:36:14 PM »

Thanks guys,

I've had the radiator reconditioned and a new water pump fitted - didn't really think about about the thermostat. In the meantime I ordered a new rad cap as they are only cheap and it would eliminate that from the equation. I'll certainly look into the thermostat though. The car was laid up for a long time - maybe 15 - 20 years, so many things can cease to function in that time.

Cheers

Chris
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fay66
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« Reply #38 on: 14 May, 2012, 11:51:34 PM »

Thanks guys,

I've had the radiator reconditioned and a new water pump fitted - didn't really think about about the thermostat. In the meantime I ordered a new rad cap as they are only cheap and it would eliminate that from the equation. I'll certainly look into the thermostat though. The car was laid up for a long time - maybe 15 - 20 years, so many things can cease to function in that time.

Cheers

Chris

Chris,
If the thermostat has been in there all that time you will have problems unscrewing it from the aluminum housing as they corrode in the threads, I also found a lot of pinholes in the casting underneath where the hose fits when I finally cut the thermostat out.
I repaired the holes with plastic padding and no problems since.
If you have a problem removing the thermostat I can post photos again of how to, but it's a destroy job Shocked
Brian
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« Reply #39 on: 15 May, 2012, 06:47:17 AM »

I can vouch for the "destroy" method, and even  after replacing and using silicone grease to screw the new one in, it was a struggle to unscrew after 6 years of car use. Huh?

If the thermostat is working and the rad is full you should be able to see enough water flow when hot with the thermostat open and the top hose should be as hot as the housing of the thermostat (just underneath/behind the back of the top hose).
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1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
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« Reply #40 on: 15 May, 2012, 06:57:31 AM »

It's been thirty years since I had my Fulvia Coupe but I did take a photo when I replaced the thermostat. As you can see by the old one I can also vouch for the "destroy" replacement method! I remember it still used to overheat if I had the heater tap set to summer but was fine in winter mode.

Noel


* Fulvia thermostat.jpg (237.99 KB, 1024x686 - viewed 177 times.)
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« Reply #41 on: 15 May, 2012, 07:47:55 AM »

Dodgy thermostats have been around for some time (I wrote that note in V-L a few years ago) mainly because it is simple to fit a thermostat used by Peugeot.  The original SAVARA item is out of stock.

I think it would be useful to do a cylinder compression test, again quite simple to eliminate cylinder head problems.

Even with a new rad and water pump, it is likely that there is a lot of gunk in the cooling system somewhere (including the heater). It is very helpful to do a reverse flush of the system by disconnecting the rear hose fittted to the drain valve (near the subframe member where the horns are fitted), fitting a hose to it (with the heater lever turned to on) and running tap water until the water comes out really clean. This should be done with the rad cap first on and then off. Cover the alternator with a plastic sheath to avoid water spillage on it. I do this treatment every 2 years when I replace the Paraflu solution. I have never had overheating even in very hot weather when driving up a mountain. Andrea
 

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kernow
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« Reply #42 on: 16 May, 2012, 02:45:28 PM »

OK, tried to remove the thermostat Angry How does the destroy method work???

Cheers

Chris
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« Reply #43 on: 16 May, 2012, 04:02:34 PM »

OK, tried to remove the thermostat Angry How does the destroy method work???

Cheers

Chris
Chris Cut the end off of the thermostat so that you can get a hacksaw blade down the inside , making about 4 cuts, not to deep you will eventually be able to collapse the thermostat inwards so it comes out in pieces without damaging the threads, I'll see if I can find my photos.

Brian
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« Reply #44 on: 16 May, 2012, 05:36:13 PM »

Making some progress. After trying to remove the thermostat the rad cap arrived. Topped up the radiator (which consumed about a litre of water), took it for a run, pulled onto the drive - no steam venting. Left it ticking over until the fan kicked in - about 190 - still no steam. Let it cool, checked coolant level. Topped up a little. Then had a long run, 20 minutes or so, good temp, no steam Cheesy Hoping the cap might have cracked it. Will renew the thermostat in any case, and do a compression test etc just to be on the safe side.

Cheers

Chris
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