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Author Topic: Finally home  (Read 11735 times)
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kernow
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« on: 08 May, 2012, 08:00:16 PM »

I can't believe it's a year since buying the Fulvia Sport, but FINALLY have the car back home, a glorious (and sunny) 30 minute run along the coast road from Graham Eddy Motori in Penzance, where the car has been. After all these months of slow but steady progress I'm hoping I'm nearly there.  

A few issues - back brakes are binding (hopefully they'll free up with use), seemed to be a bit of steam/overflow from radiator valve (but I'm assuming could be the seal in the radiator cap as the temp gauge reads normal and the fan doesn't kick on). Oil pressure gauge reads a little on the low side I think. I have a list, but nothing compared to what's already done!

Cheers

Chris


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lancialulu
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« Reply #1 on: 08 May, 2012, 09:29:32 PM »

oil pressure should be over 50% (more like 70%) at 4500 but below 2,000 it probably will not read much when hot.

On the rad fan make sure it works by fast idle for 10 mins or so to get the car hot enough to trip the rad mounted switch.

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
kernow
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« Reply #2 on: 08 May, 2012, 10:00:12 PM »

Thanks Tim,

The fan definitely kicks in when hot. After the run home was some hissing for a couple of minutes and a little steam/water seemed to be coming from the little radiator pipe that runs down to the bottom of the engine from the cap. Oil pressure was one thing that concerned me as it reads above 50 if revving, more like 30 to 40 on the gauge if cruising at 3 - 4k revs. Wondered if the gauge might be out, all the others are. Bearing in mind they haven't been used for 20 years.

Chris
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1971 Fulvia Sport
roddy
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« Reply #3 on: 08 May, 2012, 11:13:31 PM »

Hello Chris

Hope you will enjoy driving the Fulvia Sport for many years to come.  Best establish where the rear brakes are binding - support the rear axle and take the wheels off, and look and listen. If it is the calipers that have gone sticky with lying unused, they might free off themselves, but it might be worth bleeding the brake fluid at each side just to get clean fluid to the seals.  However it might be that the handbrake mechanism is not releasing properly or evenly. All that might mean is that the brake shoe lining will wear away!

If the engine is not in the first flush of youth, there is no harm in using a 15W/50 grade of oil in the 1300. Preferably semi-synthetic or full synthetic. That viscosity should give the sort of figures that Tim writes about.

The radiator header tank is also the expansion tank, so keep the coolant level about .5" below the bottom of the filler neck.  Try running the engine with the radiator cap off, and carefully looking at what the coolant is doing.  If you are getting great gulps of air coming to the surface and out the filler neck, it might mean that the head gasket is weeping combustion into the water jacket.  If however, you are getting a milky/white foam appearing in the coolant, then it is possibly the remains of some oil in the water jacket that creates cavitation at the water pump impeller.  This can be purged by using rad flush or similar.  Both symptoms can cause the weeping and steam from the overflow pipe.  Don't be tempted to use a pressure cap with a higher than .5 bar (7psi) spring (the figure should be shown somewhere on the cap) - you could just blow the heater matrix instead!

Regards - Roddy
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Roddy Young
Dunfermline, Fife

1970 Fulvia Sport S1 1.3S
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
fay66
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« Reply #4 on: 08 May, 2012, 11:29:31 PM »

I'd agree with Roddy about leaving the gap at the header tank, when we went to Portugal I was topping my 2c up every morning until it dawned on me Roll Eyes that it was just returning itself to the correct level everytime after I'd filled it to near the top, after that, no more topping up, and no further loss of coolant.
Congratulations, she looks lovely and well worth the effort.

brian
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lancialulu
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« Reply #5 on: 09 May, 2012, 08:32:52 AM »

Thanks Tim,

The fan definitely kicks in when hot. After the run home was some hissing for a couple of minutes and a little steam/water seemed to be coming from the little radiator pipe that runs down to the bottom of the engine from the cap. Oil pressure was one thing that concerned me as it reads above 50 if revving, more like 30 to 40 on the gauge if cruising at 3 - 4k revs. Wondered if the gauge might be out, all the others are. Bearing in mind they haven't been used for 20 years.

Chris

Chris

You will probably have Veglia instruments in which case I would believe the oil but the temperature ones always run low - unlike the Jaegers. You should check the transducer as it may have been changed (unlikely) but if it has it could be a 10:1 unit as opposed to 8:1 (somebody correct me if it should be a different ratio). In which case you would get the wrong reading. When the engine is still "cold" do you full scale with more than 4000? if not you have a problem of reading or oil or mechanical. I had a fulvia that had a poor oil pick up (one of Fulvia engine's few weaknesses) that gave a low reading, and I had a big end start to go which also dropped the oil pressure a bit, but you could hear something as well!!

I use Castrol 10-60 sport fully sythetic and change every 5000 miles.

Re brakes - as Roddy says this needs attention in case it is the handbrake which is susceptible to corrosion in various places including in the hub where the shoes are. Other than that you need to whip the caliper off and free any stuck pistons by pushing them home and pressing on the brake pedal making sure they dont pop out!. Changing the brake fluid through out is also valuable but best if you dont let the old fluid run right out before new as Fulvias can be a tease to bleed if the master cylinder is empty.

Tim

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
stanley sweet
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« Reply #6 on: 09 May, 2012, 09:25:33 AM »

Very nice. I still miss the ex-Richard Fridd Zagato I had but it had to go because I didn't have the space to garage it here. Aaah, the days when someone like Ercole Spada sat down with a pencil and paper and not a computer. The comments about oil choice are interesting. I've always used 10/40 in mine changed every 3000 miles. At cold start up it goes to the top of the scale. Running hot it's around 35/50 at cruising speed (I have the gauge marked 0/35/70). At hot idle it registers zero! I've always thought if I were a prospective buyer I would walk away but it's been like this for 19 years now and there isn't a wisp of blue smoke or ominous knocking so it's just the gauge. Actually - I say zero, but the needle itself is thick enough to be indicating some pressure. Many years ago I ran wires from the fan to a switch on the dash. I feel better using it manually rather than hoping it cuts in. I think I only ever switch it on when it's being MOT tested and it will be sitting on rollers etc running for some time.
« Last Edit: 09 May, 2012, 09:30:24 AM by stanley sweet » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: 09 May, 2012, 11:06:29 AM »

Many years ago I ran wires from the fan to a switch on the dash. I feel better using it manually rather than hoping it cuts in. I think I only ever switch it on when it's being MOT tested and it will be sitting on rollers etc running for some time.

My sport uses one of the dash switches to parallel up the rad switch so you get a manual override (on) and also it tells me when the fan cuts in as the switch warning light comes on as if the switch had been operated. My car has a lot of sound deadening and the fan is quite quiet so it cannot be heard from within the cockpit (as it should be....)

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
kernow
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« Reply #8 on: 09 May, 2012, 11:52:26 AM »

Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. Re brakes I'll check out the handbrake. Had the calipers rebuilt but that was near the start of the re commissioning (probably 10 months ago now) so my initial thoughts were they might free up.

The oil pressure is a slight worry as every other car I've had it always sits dead in middle at cruising speeds. It has 10 40 oil in at the moment, no untoward noises or smoke. Has had two oil changes - one before we got her running and another after a couple of test runs and an MOT.

I did wire in an auxiliary switch in my Fiat 130, but that was because 130's always got hot very quickly in traffic - do you think the FSZ needs one?

Roddy, thanks for the advice re the radiator - I'll check the level to make sure it isn't over filled. It has had a reconditioned rad fitted recently.

As this is the first Fulvia I've had, can I ask about the throttle linkage. Seems a little on-off compared with the Giulia I had which had a lot smoother feed in. Is this a set up issue or normal?

Cheers

Chris
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nistri
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« Reply #9 on: 09 May, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »

Hi Chris,
Congratulations for the very nice Zagato: I have one very similar to yours.

The advice you got is very good. I would just add a ccouple of odd comments.

Brakes: I guess your car is an S2 model. Check that the brake limiter valve is not incorrectly set up as otherwise it will not allow brake fluid flow to the rear calipers. Also check that the rear pads can freely move in and out of the calipers. Some aftermarket pads are slightly oversize and need careful filing (in an alcohol solution).

Oil pressure: it would be a good idea to do an independent measurement with a pressure gauge when the oil is hot. This can help to put one's mind at rest. The snag is that it can be a messy job as the oil filter has to be removed to fit the pipeline to the base of the filter which then has to be refitted, of course. The measurement takes 5 minutes, no more.

Rad cap: the original pressure rating was 0.25 bar (very difficult to find nowadays). I agree that 0.5 bar is the maximum.

Rad fan: very, very simple to find out if it works. Just put a small screwdriver across the two terminals on the sensor and the fan comes on if it works. On some cars the ignition should be on depending on the wiring. I advise to do this check every time the car is serviced.

The throttle linkage should have smooth operation. Check it is not binding somewhere, especially in the engine bay. Also note that, particularly on Zagatos, the cable may be somewhat compressed inside the hole through which it enters the engine bay. It is easy to relieve this pressure.

Good luck
Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

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dhla40
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« Reply #10 on: 09 May, 2012, 01:17:48 PM »

After driving alfa's for many years I did find the fulvia throttle and clutch had a very different feel but put this down to them being cable actuated instead of rod and hydraulic. As with any car it is something you get used to and hopefully avoid too many kangaroo starts Grin

Sean
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lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 09 May, 2012, 02:54:35 PM »

Re throttle - check the organ stop pedal moves smoothly on the accelerator rod which has a small wheel that can get stuck a bit.

If you have had the rad rebuilt you should not have too many overheating problems, and similarly if the rear calipers have been rebuilt in the last year and the car has not been in a damp environment then they should not be sticking so look at the hand brake...
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
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« Reply #12 on: 09 May, 2012, 03:21:50 PM »

Chris,
Great to hear your Fulvia Sport is back on the road. Certainly here in Italy they are becoming quite sought after - good ones that is!
Andrea's suggestion is by far and away the best thing to do as you will then have a reading you can absolutely believe in. You can then (hopefully) stop worrying about it.
In the 70's, we had a lovely 1600 Fulvia Sport which had a very low oil pressure reading on the gauge, partic when hot - it wouldnt get to halfway no matter how high you revved it - and in the end I did what Andrea suggested. Reading on the Smiths gauge was still the same but the engine was quiet, went well and so I left well alone and ran it for around 25k miles more then sold it (MOR666L i think?).
Jacky's car is an early S1 with belt driven fan and about 25 years ago I put a well used 818.302 engine in it ( because the original 1200cc  was broken, I couldnt get the bits and I had this engine lying around).
I have just been for a good drive in her car -  it is 28 deg C here today - and her oil pressure when hot on a 0/35/70 gauge is at 35 @2,500rpm using a 10/40W synthetic oil (Halfords). There is a reading at tickover as well, albeit a low one.

Hope this helps.
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« Reply #13 on: 09 May, 2012, 03:30:43 PM »

Ooops!
Wrong Reg mark. MOR66L was a white 1600HF we owned in the 70's which I sprinted whilst our 1600 Fulvia Sport was LYX191K or LYX161K I recall. Memory fades with age I am afraid.
Chris
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« Reply #14 on: 09 May, 2012, 05:27:44 PM »

Re throttle - check the organ stop pedal moves smoothly on the accelerator rod which has a small wheel that can get stuck a bit.

If you have had the rad rebuilt you should not have too many overheating problems, and similarly if the rear calipers have been rebuilt in the last year and the car has not been in a damp environment then they should not be sticking so look at the hand brake...
Further to Tim's comment re the throttle pedal, the small wheels x 2 can get sticky, so much so on my 2c that I had to pull the pedal back up with my toe, these were replaced by a pair of small roller bearings about 10-12 years ago, end of problem.

Brian
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1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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