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Author Topic: Augusta wheel alignment  (Read 2753 times)
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chugga boom
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« on: 01 May, 2012, 07:07:02 PM »

in 2006 when we were building my fathers augusta , i checked the track and found that on maximum adjustment the wheel alignment was over double the amount it was supposed to be  Huh? initial thoughts were the track rod was too short so we checked 3 others and found them all to be the same, anyway after some more rooting around my dad found 1 old acentric silent block and that made us think i wonder??? quick trip to demon tweeks and i'd bought a poly bush far too big and my dad turned it acentric on the lathe, problem solved and the correct wheel alignment could be achieved , 18months later i checked my belna front axle (hadn't long bought it and cant remember why) and found that this too had acentric bushes which all appear genuine as the car is very origional and unmolestered, too get to my point on stripping the axle on the augusta i'm working on at the moment to check these bushes for condition guess what i've found ........


* FLR 260.jpg (56.3 KB, 640x480 - viewed 266 times.)
« Last Edit: 01 May, 2012, 07:10:29 PM by chugga boom » Logged

1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
chugga boom
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« Reply #1 on: 01 May, 2012, 07:09:22 PM »

so to me case closed, thats how the wheel alignment on an augusta should be done, just that slight offset on both bushes solves all the problems and no need to chop trackrods etc, hope this helps anyone who runs into the problems we have j
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
JohnMillham
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« Reply #2 on: 01 May, 2012, 10:02:15 PM »

so to me case closed, thats how the wheel alignment on an augusta should be done, just that slight offset on both bushes solves all the problems and no need to chop trackrods etc, hope this helps anyone who runs into the problems we have j
Sorry, but I don't buy that. I'm sure that the Silentbloc bushes fitted to Augustas (and Aprilias) were not eccentric. I've had this discussion with your Dad and we agree to disagree. I think it far more likely that the track rods have been changed for the shorter ones fitted to the early cars at some stage. When the problem occurs, it's always in the same direction - that the track rod is too short. If you leave a bush under stress long enough it will take up the "eccentric look". i have bought bushes from Lancia, England in Alperton and from Cavalitto in Turin and they never asked if I would prefer eccentric or symmetrical ones. That's because there never was a choice. Also, if eccentric bushes were available, the parts book would show them. i'm sure the only adjustment is in the eccentric pins. The car looks good, so I hope you manage to get it finished in time for the SPR. Regards, John 
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chugga boom
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« Reply #3 on: 02 May, 2012, 07:49:25 AM »

Hi john, i think we will have to agree to disagree also, my belna is totally origional and unmolestered , has its correct track rod and acentric bushes, i struggle to believe that every augusta has an early track rod fitted as not many of these axles/ cars were made and would be more likely to accept that ealy cars had late track rods fitted simply as they are far more common,also early track rods are smaller in diameter than late ones( we also have one of these to compare too) as for alperton think about aprilia drive shafts , did they offer the italian shafts?? i'm afraid they just offered substitutes to keep the cars on the road, parts books are rarely accurate in illustration so again i have to disagree, rubber doesn't shift around in the silent block as it would tear and crack or delaminate which these have not, we have now checked 8 track rods all on late axles or off late axles and are all the same, yes you are correct that all the adjustment is in the pins and i dont think adjustment is made by the bushes, my main point is that by these bushes fitted there is no need for chopping and welding trackrods and the correct wheel alignment can be achieved with ease
« Last Edit: 02 May, 2012, 07:51:57 AM by chugga boom » Logged

1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
DavidLaver
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« Reply #4 on: 02 May, 2012, 12:24:49 PM »


Perhaps the truth lies between the two and no car left the factory that way but due to problems of parts supply this was a workround by the agents in period?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
chugga boom
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« Reply #5 on: 02 May, 2012, 12:30:06 PM »

Belna was made in france and augusta made in italy, both are identical with acentric bushes, i think that all the steering bushes are acentric and have been replaced over time with concentric, you also have to remember the augusta is lancias 1st go at silent blocks on steering, and with aprilias went for much larger concentric bushes, after measuring all the cars we have and the spare track rods the late cars are all within a mm or 2 the same, which makes it impossible to track without acentric bushes, now weve seen 3 cars with these bushes on that can be tracked, I think the problem is that dealers /owners have changed these for concentric bushes over time as they are available and then this has been adopted as "the norm"
« Last Edit: 02 May, 2012, 12:57:03 PM by chugga boom » Logged

1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
chugga boom
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« Reply #6 on: 01 June, 2012, 10:28:41 AM »

after setting the wheel alignment on my customers augusta today i noticed that with the correct acentric bushes fitted and the acentric pins set halfway through their adjustment on both sides the alignment was +6mm of toe in, the track range on an augusta is +6>+8mm of toe in, track rod is standard length and un modified,
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
the.cern
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« Reply #7 on: 04 September, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »

OK James, a few bits to throw on the fire !!!!!

I cannot get to my Gussie at the moment, but I do have a spare track rod that came with a pile of Gussie bits and I have assumed it is for a Gussie.

It is not an original unmolested item !!!! It looks as though it has been made up from two separate track rods, cut and welded together with a sleeve over the join, this is welded. There is only one bush, that measures ID 12, OD 26, inner sleeve length 24, outer sleeve length 20 and it is concentric. The weird bit, that makes me think it is made from two track rods is that the flat adjustment heads of the pivot bolts are a different diameter and the yokes are a different size to suit. Also, whilst the pivot bolt shanks are the same diameter the threads are of a different pitch, one assumes metric coarse and metric fine.

So what type of mongrel might I have here?? Theoretically it is usable, but it most assuredly does not look pretty !!!! Fortunately the one on the car looks good, although I haven't looked at the bushes, so I should not need to use this one.

Any suggestions from anyone please.

Best wishes, 

             Andy
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chugga boom
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« Reply #8 on: 05 September, 2012, 08:53:10 AM »

put a photo up, only thing that strikes me is an augusta track rod doesn't have the silent blocks in it they are fitted to the extension pieces that come off the sliding pillar / stub axle and the trackrod fits over them, if the silent block is fitted in the end of the track rod then probably more likely to be aprilia  Huh?
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
ben
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« Reply #9 on: 05 September, 2012, 10:43:17 PM »

If it has the pivot bolts in place it is Gussie. Aprilia track rods have eyes on both ends with a pinch bolt that clamps them onto the silentbloks. Hence you cannot assemble the pivot bolt to Aprilia rod without the bush being in place as well.
It is not unusual for these track rods to have a bit of history. I had a French breakdown truck operator try to tow my Aprilia using the track rod.I went ballistic when I saw what was happening. When I went to retrieve the car some days later it was straight again but with a but-welded join! The steering was fine however and it remained that way for several years.
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JohnMillham
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« Reply #10 on: 06 September, 2012, 07:24:09 AM »

I have often wondered why Lancias had track rods in front of their axles, whereas most other cars had them behind.
Does anyone know? I once fitted my Austin Seven's track rod in front and it didn't seem to make much difference, except everyone at the A7 club pointed at it and laughed!
Regards, John
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chugga boom
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« Reply #11 on: 06 September, 2012, 08:21:32 AM »

I have often wondered why Lancias had track rods in front of their axles, whereas most other cars had them behind.
Does anyone know? I once fitted my Austin Seven's track rod in front and it didn't seem to make much difference, except everyone at the A7 club pointed at it and laughed!
Regards, John

Probably because of lack of clearance, if you think about it a conventional cart axle is mounted on leaf springs and will move up and down as 1 unit still having much the same clearance area between it and chassis, with the slidig pillar you can end up with a hell of an angle on the track rod by comparrison eg if both wheels where at opposite suspension travel , i cant imagine how much room you would need behind the axle to clear it, one of the joys of having decent suspension  Grin
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
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