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Author Topic: B10*2283  (Read 15683 times)
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Parisien
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« Reply #105 on: 27 June, 2018, 08:27:42 PM »

Wonderful progress William, you've the bit between your teeth now, a wonderful moment to look forward too.

P
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Frank Gallagher
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B10


« Reply #106 on: 29 June, 2018, 07:08:50 PM »

Battery specification.

Does anyone know the correct rating for the B10 battery or should I just get the most powerful one that will fit the box?

Tried start-up tonight, but the pensioned-off battery I've been using to turn the engine over without plugs didn't have (even when fully charged according to the battery charger's lights) enough juice to turn the engine over at any speed. It's possible the starter isn't up to it, but first thing to try is, I think, a new healthy known-quantity battery. I'll check the earth first though...
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« Reply #107 on: 29 June, 2018, 07:18:54 PM »

I always go for the most powerful one that fits , and black if I can find it .... looks better !
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
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« Reply #108 on: 01 July, 2018, 12:42:31 PM »

If you want to retain 'the look' you could try this company. They are local to me in Southend, but have a delivery option (with the acid supplied separately) for the uk.
I cannot guarantee their quality, but suffice it to say I have been using them on and off for over 40 years!!
Good luck with things, Andy
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williamcorke
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B10


« Reply #109 on: 01 July, 2018, 05:05:06 PM »

Thank you Andy for the tip - but yesterday I bought the biggest black battery (cranking amps) that I could find at Kwikfit, which with the sticker off the front and the cover screwed down will look just fine, I think.

Anyway, back to the starting issues.

First problem I managed to solve was related to there being a spark through the king lead but not at the plugs. This turned out to be due to the rotor sitting too low and so circulating below the level of the cap contacts. The rotor was too long at the lower end when I got it and had to be ground down before it would engage with the slot on the top of the distributor shaft (Elizabeth at Omicron tells me that they have to do this - the modern caps are to some extent 'generic', e.g. made for several different cars). Clearly I had ground it down too much. A washer underneath the rotor raised it enough (with a little upward tweak to the rotor contact at the edge) to bring things into alignment, at which point I was getting a nice big spark at the plugs.

However, the thing still wouldn't start? Why?

The points had been tested with a light and the timing appeared spot-on...

But with the lhd valve cover (1-3-5) removed, turning the engine showed that when the flywheel was on the correct mark and the rotor arm was pointing at no1 ht contact, the engine was at the point where the exhaust valve had just closed and the inlet was about to open. Surely the timing was 180 degrees out?

I had suspected this before, but the distributor will only sit down in one position - though it looks as if the slots that it locates in are the same size, and the lugs on the bottom of the distributor shaft measure the same size.

So I connected up the plug leads 180 out and...

Bingo.

Great oil pressure.
Little observable propshaft vibration
I put the car (on stands) into top gear and ran it briefly at 50 kmh (no coolant in yet) - some gearbox noise, but bearable, and lots of sound deadening is not yet in place). The speedometer works!
Pushing the brakes slowed the engine.

So with some wheels on I could be driving it up and down.

Definitely a milestone. I have to check the Swedish paperwork but from memory, I think the car has been off the road since about 1966.

One of my daughters filmed the start-up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMeJqt-knLI&feature=youtu.be

Can anyone here suggest how I can 'correct' the timing so that the leads can be connected normally? What has been done wrong in the build??
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #110 on: 01 July, 2018, 05:45:33 PM »

Fantastic William. You must be so pleased. Its all downhill from now on.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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« Reply #111 on: 01 July, 2018, 06:34:32 PM »

Absolutely, great to see your camera person had full faith in you, looking forward to the next instalment!

P
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Frank Gallagher
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B10


« Reply #112 on: 01 July, 2018, 09:23:10 PM »

Thank you Chris (for much help and support) and Frank.

So, the question of how the engine comes to be 180 degrees out in timing...

Looking at the Tavola below, I am assuming that the problem is that part 1 has been assembled wrongly.

Any thoughts on this?

If only it were possible to just remove the dizzy and put it back half a turn round, but it seems that Lancia sensibly made sure that there was only one, correct, position. Fine, as long as the dizzy drive from the oil pump has been correctly put together (which I'm assuming is not the case with my engine).

Probably I shall have to drain the engine, remove the pump and re-align the dizzy drive. Is this possible without removing the engine entirely (would rather not do that)?



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« Last Edit: 01 July, 2018, 10:05:19 PM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #113 on: 02 July, 2018, 04:12:11 PM »

Not too much smoke for a first start-up!  Well done!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I had the shaft out of the B21 a couple of times, and with some 'wiggeling' with the crank it has engaged with the oil pump every time
I marked the position of the shaft so that you can check it's low enough to have properly engaged with the pump drive.

Takes a bit of fiddling but always quicker than having the sump of IMO.

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« Reply #114 on: 02 July, 2018, 06:42:34 PM »

I think like Koen that you can lift that distributor drive out, turn through 180 deg and then wiggle it back in place on the oil pump drive. A bit of patience and luck are required  but much easier that going in through the sump as the engine would have to come out.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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B10


« Reply #115 on: 03 July, 2018, 08:41:29 AM »

Taking out the drive from the oil pump from above is clearly the next step.

In France in the Flavia Vignale this week, so nothing will happen until we're back.
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Niels Jonassen
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« Reply #116 on: 03 July, 2018, 07:41:18 PM »

When you have the shaft out be careful not to loose a washer into the sump.
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williamcorke
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« Reply #117 on: 09 July, 2018, 09:42:29 PM »

Timing now fixed. It turned out to be straightforward to remove the distributor drive, once the 'turret' that the distributor fixes to was removed. No special tools, just turning and lifting by hand was sufficient. There are only two positions that it can be in to 'seat' down properly as there's a slot drive at the bottom as well as the helical drive gear.

10 minutes later the distributor was retimed and the engine started with all the leads in the correct position. Very satisfying.

Next step is to properly plumb in the battery and get services tested and live.

There is no earth strap from the engine to the chassis. Where should this mount and how long will it need to be?

The Tav extract below has what looks like a strap, part 20. But where on the body should it connect to? Information please...

One more question. I have a (working) original 50s Marelli Superpotente coil that came with the car, but it has no ballast resistor. Am I right in thinking that I'll need to add one? What rating should it have (0.8 / 1.6 ohms)? I've read that the coil resistance needs to be c. 3 ohms, so if it is lower than that, then you need to add a ballast resistor to bring the total resistance up to this figure. Is that correct?



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« Last Edit: 10 July, 2018, 06:07:34 AM by williamcorke » Logged

'37 Aprilia
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« Reply #118 on: 14 July, 2018, 08:35:06 PM »

Another milestone today, when the B10 was fit to be driven up and down in my yard.

Video here: https://youtu.be/2CGlKHlNDT0

The doors and interior need to be fitted, but I have the lights working and the rest of the electrical services have been tested. A major remaining task is the completion of the rebuilding of the trafficators. Once that's done a test for UK registration is in sight.

The car (in 1st and 2nd gear) seems to go very well and I can't wait to get it on the road to be properly 'shaken down'.
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« Reply #119 on: 15 July, 2018, 06:40:29 AM »

Looks good
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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