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Author Topic: B10*2283  (Read 7101 times)
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Parisien
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« Reply #15 on: 08 February, 2012, 07:17:50 PM »

William, yet more good news, its a treat to see a berlina model being restored as well as the  plethora of coupes over the last decade.

The encyclopedic-like volumes of photos will prove invaluable in the coming months, and for that can I thank you very much in advance.

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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #16 on: 24 December, 2013, 08:21:51 PM »

William, can I ask how are things going with the B10?

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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #17 on: 24 December, 2013, 11:52:34 PM »

Frank, thanks for asking.

I am hoping to get going again on on putting the car back together in the New Year. Will update the forum with progress as and when it occurs.

Best,
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'37 Aprilia
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'68 Flavia Vignale
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« Reply #18 on: 10 April, 2016, 06:34:02 PM »

Well it is the New Year, a New Year-ish, just 2 years later than hoped for. Never mind, life got in the way but I am now getting going again with the B10. The workshop has been sorted (no more leaks, more light and space) and I expect to be asking for the forum's knowledge with some regularity.

This weekend I made a start on testing electrical connections and components so that all these systems are known to work before interior and engine are put back in place. Some but not all of the loom will have to be remade.

One particular challenge is the self-cancelling mechanism for the indicators (trafficators at the front). There is a mechanism on the steering column with a rotating collar that acts as a comutator for 3 lobes attached to a bracket (also attached to a part of the steering column (sleeve) that doesn't rotate. These parts can be seen in the Tavola below:
- 39 is the collar
- 8 the lobes that make contact with the collar



Moving on to the electrical diagram, these same parts can be seen at '18'.



One puzzle to me is that the dash switch itself doesn't seem to have any mechanism that would allow it to automatically return. I'm presuming that signal stops when cancelled though the switch remains in an 'on' position.

So, does anyone here know exactly how this system works?

Perhap more importantly, does anyone have a spare one of part '8' from the tavola - the 3-lobed item. Mine is missing, perhaps removed when the car was converted to a non-trafficator system at some point in the 50s.
« Last Edit: 13 April, 2016, 07:08:27 PM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: 13 April, 2016, 11:39:55 PM »

So here I am replying to my own post... better than no-one taking an interest I suppose.

Peter Harding has shed some light on the self-cancelling system.

The indicator switch should be of a type that always sits 'at the centre'; in other words you activate the indicators by moving it to left or right but it then immediately returns to the centre position. The switch holds the contact electro-magnetically until released by the mechanism on the steering column. So my switch must be a non-correct (period) replacement, perhaps Ardea, as it clicks into the L and R positions and needs to be manually moved back to the centre. More parts to search for.

Peter tells me that the 3rd series B20 has a similar system (the switch at least, though the column mechanism is different).

Jonathan Angell has an earlier B10 than mine which has a different system again, where a 'clockwork' timer is wound up by the movement of the switch. The clockwork returns the switch to the centre 'off' position after about 20 seconds. The entire system is within the switch itself so is unrelated to steering wheel position or movement.

I've written to Enrico at Cavalitto to see if he can help with my missing bits (now including the dash switch).
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2016, 08:00:31 AM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: 14 April, 2016, 07:21:58 PM »

My later B10 (Late 1952) has the all or nothing switch which needs manually centering and cancelling. The switch certainly looked original but the bakolite/plastic material broke a few years ago and I remade the lever in nylon.
The clockwork indicator switch certainly does exist as I bought a unit to use on my Augusta but I recently did take it off and fit an original switch which is just like the B10 one but alloy lever instead of plastic. The clockwork one flipped in a plane parallel with the dash rather than at 90 degrees if you understand what I mean......

I certainly would like self cancelling indicators as I do forget often to do so.

Brian
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« Reply #21 on: 21 April, 2016, 05:11:55 PM »

Indicator mystery solved and parts found and bought. Result.

Cavalitto had the bits I needed;
- a dash switch that returns to the centre position by spring once electrically released by the steering column mechanism
- the 3 lobed commutator

Not cheap but price happily paid!



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« Reply #22 on: 21 April, 2016, 05:44:19 PM »

Result William, good to see its been resolved, albeit at a hefty price (?).

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« Reply #23 on: 22 April, 2016, 11:08:42 AM »

Given the rarity of these parts and the fact that some of them are apparently also B24 fittings, I think the prices were actually pretty reasonable.
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« Reply #24 on: 23 April, 2016, 07:40:31 PM »

A bit more progress today.

The programme (with Tony Baxter's help) was to check all the wiring and electrical systems and make up new loom where necessary (for completeness or safety).

As so often, progress involved taking more things apart... after a while it became clear that taking the dashboard off - it stayed in position while the body and paint were done - was going to make access to the critical part of the loom between dash and bulkhead much, much easier.



Turns out it was just as well, as some of the wiper mechanism need attention which would have been impossible with the dash in place.

The relay unit and end box (probably the wrong terms) seem to have been fastened to the inner windscreen panel (the car is double skinned here) by some kind of rivet. There is no access from the other side, so that makes sense. These rivets have 'popped' leaving the boxes loose and moving around. Here's a photo of the left-hand one.



The rivets are either side on the lobes.

Do any of you have any experience or advice about how best to replace these so that the boxes (by then suitably cleaned and lubricated - I presume that excess friction in the system was probably the main cause of the rivets coming loose) can be re-fastened?
« Last Edit: 23 April, 2016, 11:51:06 PM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: 23 April, 2016, 07:43:27 PM »

While behind the dash today I discovered a couple of souvenirs of the car's years on Sweden (c. '55 - 2002 when I bought it. Off the road since c. '67). The nougat wrapper was under the trim in the glove box and the post office receipt (?) was folded to pack out the wiper motor to stand in for a missing rubber washer!





« Last Edit: 23 April, 2016, 07:51:39 PM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: 23 April, 2016, 08:06:57 PM »

I love these little pieces of history !

Ref the indicators, a bit late to comment, but I think there is some crossover with the early Appia system as well. I am just about to embark on mine so I will know more later ....
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« Reply #27 on: 23 April, 2016, 09:21:48 PM »



Turns out it was just as well, as some of the wiper mechanism need attention which would have been impossible with the dash in place.


The rivets are either side on the lobes.

Do any of you have any experience or advice about how best to replace these so that the boxes (by then suitable cleaned and lubricated - I presume that excess friction in the system was probably the main cause of the rivets coming loose) can be re-fastened?

How about drilling out the remains of the rivets from the lobes, if this allows the wiper mechanism to drop out you replace the rivets with Rivnuts and then bolt the wiper mechanism back in place later?

Potential downside is that the drilled out head are going to fall into the double skinned area and if they don't drop out might rattle around for years to come? WaxOyl might trap the remnants though?

Guy
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« Reply #28 on: 24 April, 2016, 08:14:08 PM »

... replace the rivets with Rivnuts and then bolt the wiper mechanism back in place later?


Guy, great idea. I had never heard of Rivnuts but - after some research - they would obviously be incredibly useful for lots of applications.

However...

This morning, I got the drill out to try drilling out the loose rivets and (thank goodness) discovered before I'd butchered the original part through ignorance that they are not rivets but locating lugs.

The reason for the looseness was the chromed nuts on the outside of the car not having been fully tightened. The wiper gearboxes are located by these lugs (see photo) but until the wiper fixings are screwed down on the outer bulkhead the lugs will not be securely in position.



It happens that this gearbox (one of two - one for each wiper) was seized. The system is, I think, made by SWF who also supplied wiper systems in the '50s to Porsche for the 356 and Alfa Romeo for early Giuliettas (fitted to my '55 Sprint). The gearboxes are not cheap. Porsche parts suppliers ask about 150 each for them.

So I applied some gentle force to the lever and, thankfully, the thing freed up. It's unfortunate that the box is riveted together and so can't be taken apart to clean and re-grease parts or find out what's wrong. The action on this (recently seized) 'box is a bit rough compared to the other one. Has anyone else here taken the step of splitting one of these? I've seen threads online about fibre gearwheels being remade or even 3d printed.

Anyway, there's a moral here about not rushing to hastily in with power tools (or hammers and chisels for that matter).
« Last Edit: 25 April, 2016, 07:29:56 AM by williamcorke » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: 25 April, 2016, 12:30:26 PM »

Would it do any harm to drill a tiny hole and squirt aerosol white lith-grease in I wonder?
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