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Author Topic: Classic Car Charter...  (Read 1515 times)
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Jolly_Club_6
Guest
« on: 19 October, 2011, 02:26:29 PM »

anyone find this worrying  ? not seen this on here, but maybe worth chewing the fat to re-assure some owners, me.  Embarrassed

Classic Car Charter
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Neil
Permanent resident
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Posts: 1016



« Reply #1 on: 19 October, 2011, 02:37:39 PM »

As long as this just a voluntary thing, not another EU law, not sure they defined what makes a vehicle historic, no ages or year stated as far as I could see.
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Neil   
386

1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
thecolonel
Guest
« Reply #2 on: 19 October, 2011, 03:26:34 PM »

In Germany they have "special" registration plates and the cars can only be used to and from an event.

I'm afraid the Turin Charter may well result in severely restricted use of historic vehicles.

Previously there was rumour of removal of status if the monocoque was modified, for example:
cutting/welding the tunnel of a Ford Escort, to install a five speed box, or cutting the engine
bulkhead on a Mini to allow fitment of a different carburettor.

In extreme cases or where the MOT tester had advised DVLA of the modification, it is possible that the
registration mark could be removed, vehicle would have to take a BIVA test (aprox 6-8 hours) and a "Q"
plate issued.

Some of this information has been gleaned from google searches and may not be 100% accurate.

At least with my "modified" Gamma, I could, relatively easily, return it to original if required.

Geoff
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Chris Hopkins
Librarian
Megaposter
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Posts: 278



« Reply #3 on: 19 October, 2011, 05:39:26 PM »

I attended the FBHVC AGM last weekend and although this was mentioned in the Chairman's report, he said that it was still in draft and so any thoughts any members have by all means feed them to the Federation to pass on to the FIVA working group.
It is a very complex subject and has the potential to cause some old car owners problems but as I read it, cars can be modified, such as when original parts are no longer available but it is important to keep records of the work done.  Now, a big problem might be if they try to do this retrospectively.  I have no idea how they can do it though and who has the knowledge required.  Afterall, no one knows our cars ranging from 1906 to present day as well as we do, especially our active consortium members and restorers.  Yes, I think we need to keep a close eye on what is happening.  I will pass on anything I hear as I recieve their newsletter but please do visit the FBHVC site yourselves as the LMC are members and so they will want to hear from you.

As an aside, you probably all have your own favourite MOT man who knows your car, the FBHVC have asked for the names of MOT stations who "do a good job".  So I am happy to collect names of your guys and pass them on so other classic car owners can benefit in your areas.

They have also asked me to canvas help from members with regard to MOTs for the older historic cars and where the line could be drawn for exemptions.  The members thoughts I have managed to gather so far have indicated that as far back as Lambda, owners think that the MOT is a good idea as it gives them reassurance that someone else has checked it because it is easy to become blinkered with your own work.  However, what about the few  pre 1921 cars, what do those owners think?  Please let me know before the end of the month.
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Chris Hopkins
1971 Fulvia Berlina S2
1972 Fulvia Coupe S2
1973 Fulvia Sport 1600
2011 Delta 3 Limited
2012 Ypsilon 1.2 Limited Edition
Neil
Permanent resident
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Posts: 1016



« Reply #4 on: 19 October, 2011, 05:46:39 PM »

Special registration plates, what about foreign visitors with 'historic' cars do they need them to in Germany?  Any restriction is not good, why?

Would it be pollution, driver/passenger safety or other road users/pedestrians ??  If the car is modified to may be take radial tyres is that a permitted modification as that would be a good safety plus point for example, MOTs are fine as far as I am concerned.

Still the definition of as historic vehicle is not clear, any car without a catalytic converter or pre 1914, who knows?
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Neil   
386

1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
peterbaker
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Posts: 1694


www.retro-speed.co.uk


WWW
« Reply #5 on: 19 October, 2011, 06:47:12 PM »

Why can't they just leave us alone, we are causing any harm. And I would never submit the name of my MOT tester, it's my secret.
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1961 Lancia Flavia 1.5 Berlina. 2005 Lancia Ypsilon. 1954 Daimler Conquest. 2003 MG ZT-T 135. 1998 SAAB 9-3 Conv.
thecolonel
Guest
« Reply #6 on: 19 October, 2011, 07:03:39 PM »

In order of posting...

Chris,
I was a trade member of the FBHVC but did not renew this year, so no longer privy to the newsletter

-------------------
Neil,
as far as I know, at the present time, a foreign vehicle is governed by it's own nations rules/regulation
however the more europe dictates the way we do things, the worse it will probably become.

local bye-laws, will of course, still apply, such as low emission zones etc.

-------------------
Peter,
I agree my MOT tester is  Mine, All Mine I Tell You......

Geoff


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ncundy
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Posts: 980



« Reply #7 on: 19 October, 2011, 08:13:35 PM »

I guess if any restrictions, conditions or privileges regarding "historic vehicles" ever come into place, the key activity will be the legal certification of your vehicle as an "historic vehicle".

This charter contains for instance;

Article 8: The components and materials replaced in the process should be identified with simple and permanent markings, for instance alphabetic stampings, to distinguish them from the historic substance.

Article 9: On inspection, such additions or changes to the original structure should be clearly recognisable as such.

Artcle 13: International and national governmental authorities and agencies should recognise non-profit organisations or associations involved in the preservation of historic vehicles and their tangible and intangible context as cultural institutions and assign them the status of charities.

Inspect for what, recognisable to whom and for what purpose? Oh, and a seemingly rather out of context reference to NFP organisations tagged on the end.

So the person who "inspects", certifies and recommends becomes all powerful. This has many implications, from dictating the method and content of restorations, who you use (certified restorers?..who certifies them...?), what parts you can use (who certifies them?), to the available use of your car and ultimately the value.

Reading between the lines this is the opening play by the FIVA and it's agencies to position themselves to undertake that role, to become the all powerful arbiters of what consitutes an "historic vehicle", who can undertake restoration work and what parts they can use. No doubt for a small fee. Are you sure they are entirely on our side?? Sounds like the automotive equivalent of a planning agency.

The reference to trains may be quite appropriate as I think I can smell a gravey train approaching.
« Last Edit: 19 October, 2011, 08:32:07 PM by ncundy » Logged

1969 Fanalone, Mazda RX-8, Fiat Multipla
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