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Author Topic: Report on 5% & 10% Ethanol Fuels and their effect on Pre 1996 Cars.  (Read 1754 times)
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fay66
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« on: 15 April, 2011, 10:30:46 AM »

This is frightening, while I've read a little about the effects, I've never read this report that only came out last October, 54 pages long but worth plowing through, or go to the last few pages for the conclusions, they're enough to give you nightmares!

http://www.databases.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/environment/research/assessingfuelsystemcompatability/pdf/bioethanolstudyreport.pdf

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
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ben
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« Reply #1 on: 15 April, 2011, 05:42:09 PM »

Having done some of Brian's recommended plowing, taking a positive approach one might conclude:
          1. The move from currently allowable 5% to10% might not happen.(Life is much nicer when one's head is under the sand!) I think people (possibly including some politicians) now query if it is environmentally any better to grow petrol rather than sink wells for it.
          2.If it does happen they will probably have to tell you on the pump which they don't do at present.Although only about 3% of basic unleaded has bio-ethanol at the moment you can't be sure to avoid it 'cos you dont know where it is around the country.(Or does someone know different?)
          3. If we are forced to use it we can probably continue to run our carburettored cars if we:
                    a) Fit modern fuel hoses,
                    b) Carry spare filters and learn how to fit them if necessary!
                    c) Drain carburetors, pumps, and may-be, tanks when cars are laid up.
                    d) On balance fuel vaporisation should not be any worse but if it is an electric pump installed where it is cool and unobtrusive should cure it.
                    e) If the brass bits in our carbs get eaten away I am sure someone enterprising will make replacements for us from a more suitable material.

          Hope this alleviates the nightmares!!
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fay66
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« Reply #2 on: 15 April, 2011, 05:53:11 PM »

Ben,
We live in hope Roll Eyes

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Peter W
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« Reply #3 on: 15 April, 2011, 06:44:10 PM »

Just had an email from Frost Auto advertising Ethomix to protect earlier engines.  Quick of the mark aren't they.

Peter
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fay66
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« Reply #4 on: 15 April, 2011, 06:57:05 PM »

Just had an email from Frost Auto advertising Ethomix to protect earlier engines.  Quick of the mark aren't they.

Peter

That's where I got it from! but I think their a bit premature if you look at the numbers that might be affected at present, and as Ben says, we don't know who is selling it anyway.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
thecolonel
Guest
« Reply #5 on: 15 April, 2011, 08:14:37 PM »

I would read a lot more on the subject, if I was you.
As usual there are some experts on both sides of the fence

Ethanol / alcohol based fuels will reduce mpg
they are also excellent at cleaning fuel systems so
all the crud/residue you have in your system will
be heading towards the carb. best suggestion is to
complete two or three rapid fuel filters changes.

Another point is that the 10 % is unlikely to be introduced before 2015
at present there can be up to  5 % ethanol in petrol.

I expect a lot of the scaremongering is similar to the unleaded debate,
I seem to remember we were all supposed to replace the valves and
valve seats before our engines all died.

Ooop, forgot to do that or rather decided not to waste money on an
un-neccessary conversion.

Geoff
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westernlancia
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« Reply #6 on: 11 May, 2011, 09:10:30 PM »

I expect a lot of the scaremongering is similar to the unleaded debate,
I seem to remember we were all supposed to replace the valves and valve seats before our engines all died.
Ooop, forgot to do that or rather decided not to waste money on an un-neccessary conversion.
Geoff

Hear hear. I run a 1965 Chevy Corvair that I keep in a friend's garden in the USA for when I am over there for Hershey every year (it's the white car on the end in the picture - doesn't it look small among all the huge pantechnicons? And yet to Europeans it's a 'big' car!).

Anyway, this debate has been going on over there for 15 years (some states have had to have an ethanol mix for getting on for that long). I have done well over 100000 miles there since 1995, all in 64 or 65 Corvairs and all unconverted, and I have yet to experience any trouble at all. If I do, all I will do is replace the rubbery bits when I need to (but not before).

As you say, it's just like the 'let's convert to unleaded' scare. I just decided to wait until my valve seats were affected and then replace them. I'm still waiting...

Cheers

Alan


* Corvair.jpg (333.27 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 159 times.)
« Last Edit: 11 May, 2011, 09:13:06 PM by westernlancia » Logged

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thecolonel
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« Reply #7 on: 11 May, 2011, 10:09:59 PM »

I say!  it's awfully bad form to agree with anything I've posted
on this or any other forum which I may / may not have visited.


(please disregard any opinions I may have proffered due to the fact that I was never here, if you
tell anyone I'll deny it, I wasn't in the country at the time, I don't even have a computer and my
mobile phone is analogue and if I did sent it then I was probably very, very, drunk and I therefore
cannot be held responsible for any action or inaction undertaken on my behalf, so there)
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westernlancia
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« Reply #8 on: 12 May, 2011, 08:11:42 AM »

Just had an email from Frost Auto advertising Ethomix to protect earlier engines.  Quick of the mark aren't they.

'Classic' oil, unleaded 'conversions', ethanol 'protection' - all things that I happily do without in my cars (almost all of which have done over 100,000 miles and two of which have done over 200,000 miles). The Americans call this kind of stuff 'snake oil'. Solutions to all your problems in a bottle. Wouldn't it be great it life were really like that?

I can think of almost no (sorry - absolutely no) Lancia owners who wouldn't be better off spending their money on fixing the (real) problem of rust rather than the (over-hyped or non-existent) problems above...

Cheers

Alan
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00 Lancia Y Elefantino Rosso, 96 Lancia Y 1.2, 84 VW Golf GTi, 66 VW Splitscreen, 56 Ford Anglia, 56 Lancia Appia S1, 54 Ford Prefect, 54 Lancia Appia S1, 37 Terraplane, lovely old trailer, 10,000 vintage accessories
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westernlancia
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« Reply #9 on: 12 May, 2011, 08:13:41 AM »

I say!  it's awfully bad form to agree with anything I've posted
on this or any other forum which I may / may not have visited.
(please disregard any opinions ... I was probably very, very, drunk, ...so there)

B*gger!! Missed the disclaimer! Sorry - will take care to disagree at all times in future!

 Smiley Smiley Smiley

Cheers

Alan
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00 Lancia Y Elefantino Rosso, 96 Lancia Y 1.2, 84 VW Golf GTi, 66 VW Splitscreen, 56 Ford Anglia, 56 Lancia Appia S1, 54 Ford Prefect, 54 Lancia Appia S1, 37 Terraplane, lovely old trailer, 10,000 vintage accessories
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