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Author Topic: High hydrocarbon Emmission test failure  (Read 3873 times)
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super_golfer
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« on: 29 August, 2010, 05:03:56 PM »

My 1.3 Rallye S has just failed its MOT on high hydrocarbon readings and high CO. He has tried adjusting the mixture but nothing is helping, and he admits he has little knowledge of these carbs.  Has anyone any advice?   I bought the car recently and I don't think it has run much (if at all) over the last few years. The chokes have been wired closed on the Solexes, if that helps.

It also runs really roughly to begin with, but eventually after patiently feathering the throttle for a few minutes seems to fire on all cylinders.  I'm desperate to get this bl***dy car legal so I can enjoy it, but with no MOT I'm stymied.

Is it an ignition problem not a carb problem? Or something more serious?

Help would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

Gil

 
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lancialulu
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« Reply #1 on: 29 August, 2010, 05:19:14 PM »

I am sure that the tester is wrong to check those emmissions. I thought pre 80 (?) cars were not subject to these tests?

Has some reg changed - if so then we are all going to be stuffed.

My tester has only checked for excessive smoke.

Tim
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thecolonel
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« Reply #2 on: 29 August, 2010, 05:48:33 PM »

Here you go :

Before 1 August 1975: A visual test for excessive smoke.
1 August 1975 to 1 August 1986: Limits are 4.5% CO and 1200ppm hydrocarbons.
1 August 1986 to 31 July 1992: Limits are 3.5% CO and 1200ppm hydrocarbons.
After 1st Aug 1992 you need a catalyst

take it back and ask him to check the rule book
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rogerelias
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« Reply #3 on: 29 August, 2010, 06:34:13 PM »

if thats all i failed on , ask him for a appeal form, watch him change his mind,  Wink and this is from an ex tester of 20 years. Smiley
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ian
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« Reply #4 on: 29 August, 2010, 10:39:31 PM »

Still doesn't get over the rough running problem though  Sad I managed to set mine up (although probably not perfect!) by throughly reading/following the service manuals.  Grin
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super_golfer
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« Reply #5 on: 30 August, 2010, 09:27:44 AM »

I questioned him on the need for a test, as my 1967 Porsche has never needed these emission tests (I assume if it had, I would have been supplied with the data sheet, as per modern cars). I will put arm myself with all these facts, and put the case to him again.

However, I wonder if this is the issue.

The car was first registered as Registered overseas, declared manufactured 1969 (Italian )

The date of registration in the UK was 03 06 1976  (hence the 'P' registration).

Is he using the rules for 1976, not 1969 perhaps?

Thanks for all your help.

Gil
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nistri
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« Reply #6 on: 30 August, 2010, 11:07:32 AM »

Hi Gil,
I understand that the year is the one of manufacture rather than registration. By the way, I cannot measure hydrocarbons at home but I do have a CO meter and all Fulvias (S1-3) I have seen readily stay below 4.5 % if they are properly tuned up (ignition and carbs) and the engine is not worn out. For the hyrdrocarbons the trick is to increase the idling speed to about 950 revs. This minimizes the time the mixture spends in the combustion chamber. Some people actually try to slow down idling and they make the situation worse. It would be a good idea to get the service manual. Regards, Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

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lanciab20
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« Reply #7 on: 06 September, 2010, 04:08:38 PM »

Wired closed or wired open?  I assume open.  Wired closed would mean it starts easily then chugs to a halt.  But an interesting modification, and it is important to try to establish why it was done.
How far over the limit was it?  If not too far you can try taking out the air filter element, and giving the plugs a very good clean just before the test.  Best bet longer term is to get the carbs looked at by someone who knows, and at the same time get timing checked, points gap etc. Whoever you get to do it will want to know the ignition is right before starting on the carbs. Inefficient/incomplete burning can be down to several factors.
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fay66
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« Reply #8 on: 06 September, 2010, 05:27:11 PM »

You could always try the method I recommend for Dedra's that can't get the figure down, take it for a good hard drive.at least half an hour, and hang it out through the gears, present it to the testing station nice and hot straight afterwards, invariably works!

Brian
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thecolonel
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« Reply #9 on: 06 September, 2010, 06:23:43 PM »

You often find that the mixture screws have a worn "step" in them
making it hard to adjust them properly.

I remember at Goodwood a few years ago recieving a rollicking for
using the choke on a Fulvia, it appears from those that know, that
this can wash the bores, as is a definate no-no.

(I have some spare solex carbs if you need parts)

Geoff
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super_golfer
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« Reply #10 on: 06 September, 2010, 08:49:01 PM »

MOT Passed!!!!!   Armed with the info supplied by you guys, plus a conversation with VOSA, no problem.

However, still a bit worried about the carbs. Could this car have been fitted with larger jets for racing? Is this why the readings are high? Or is it just through lack of use?

Now I have the MOT I propose to do a few good miles over the next few weeks to give the old girl a good run, and then take it back for another check up.

Is the steering supposed to be this stiff??  Maybe its due to the track tyres on the front.

Still learning

Gil
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lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 06 September, 2010, 09:13:11 PM »

All fulvias run on the rich side albeit their economy (at least for a 1300) is impressive.

Doubt jets would have been changed as they are a sod on Solexs and need the carbs off so rolling road efforts very time consuming and pointless given the development Lancia would have put in at the factory.

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
dhla40
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« Reply #12 on: 07 September, 2010, 05:09:18 PM »

When I first got my S3 the steering was a bit stiff as the previous owner only did about 500 miles a year. As long as the steering box adjuster screw is not too tight Just give it a good run as you intend to do and it should free up.

Sean
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ian
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« Reply #13 on: 07 September, 2010, 11:37:00 PM »

 Tyre pressures on the low side will make my steering much stiffer. I tend to adjust my manoeuvring  technique a little, as lets face it, the turning circle on the S3 at least, is a bit......wide?  Tongue
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super_golfer
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« Reply #14 on: 08 September, 2010, 09:20:01 AM »

The front tyres are 185/60 14 Yokohama track tyres, whereas the back are normal 185s, so I will try swapping them around and see if that makes a difference. I suppose I am not used to having no power steering on a front engined car, as my the 912 is rear engined and has nice light steering.

As regards the chokes, I assume they were wired open by the previous owner when he was racing. He also remove the choke cable and the choke cable bracket under the dash. It has no air filter box, just 4 ram pipes. I drove the 2 miles from the MOT station with no problem, but will try and do some hard miles this weekend (assuming it stops raining).  Would like to take it to Beaulieu on Saturday for the Autojumble, but I think 120 mile round trip is too far for a first outing.

Cheers
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