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Author Topic: A B20 Story  (Read 77184 times)
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the.cern
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« Reply #15 on: 06 September, 2010, 08:29:34 PM »

I've just found 3 more photos. Chronologically, these come after the first and before the  last 4 in my previous post.

In the first one, the perforated central piece of the sill is only temporarily clamped in place to check alignment etc. It should be welded in during our next session this weekend, provided I remember to buy some gas !!!!!!!!

                   Andy


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DavidLaver
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« Reply #16 on: 07 September, 2010, 09:17:05 AM »


My two-euro's worth:

With the master cyl and gearbox what's the down side on "suck it and see"?   They're not all that hard to remove later on and you'll do so with knowledge from testing.  To go the other way and insist everything is 100pct first time, the complete rebuild, is much more time (labour and elapsed) and huge sums of money.

Perhaps it's a question of priorities - don't even ask those questions until all the MUST do stuff is done?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
the.cern
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« Reply #17 on: 07 September, 2010, 09:38:08 AM »

David, I have given great thought (at least 2secs worth) to the philosophy in your last statement and I intend to adhere to it, strictly, from now on. No more angst and hopefully a huge  saving in time and money !!!!!!

               Andy
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Kevin MacBride
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« Reply #18 on: 07 September, 2010, 10:31:03 AM »

When I first got my car, it had been idle for a few years (2 maybe). It had an mot, and I drove it (in the rain) from reading to Holyhead, then ferry home, and a final drive of maybe 50 miles to my home. Remembering that the previous owner had used the car HARD, I was pleasantly surprised.
It had a noisy first gear, and a screeching clutch bearing. apart from that it ran fine. i fitted a new bearing, got the clutch disc relined and that was it. 10 odd years later ( and many races, hillclimbs and the odd rally) it still has a noisy first gear. the clutch has been relined a few times, but mostly due to the rigors of competition than to components.
My advice, for what its worth, would be to leave well alone, and see what happens. Change the oil of course. I learned a lot about Aurelias druing my ownership, but mostly...they are a lot stronger than any self respecting 55 year old car should be. Mr Lancia knew what he was doing when he designed these cars, to quote a statment from one of the classic car magazines...'You'll not see thier like again'
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B20 4th series (having a 'facelift')

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« Reply #19 on: 07 September, 2010, 12:11:35 PM »

I know I might be playing devil's advocate, but I would say with an Aurelia if you do it right the first time you won't have to do it again! (Although I would leave the internals of the gearbox alone untill you have driven it, just do the clutch)
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #20 on: 09 September, 2010, 08:12:15 AM »

I am with Ade on this.....and particularly with the brake master cylinder. Fit a new one!
By all means refurbish the wheel cylinders if you are confident they wont leak ..........but if they do and they contaminate the linings?
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Chris Gawne
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« Reply #21 on: 09 September, 2010, 04:51:27 PM »

Regarding wheel cylinders: you can purchase new ones at Cavalitto, and they are not expensive.
However quality of the seals is variable and could be better. I had some that started leaking because of porous seals after 3-4 years, and then I had to redo the linings, and replace the cylinders as well. Not nice....

Sebastien
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the.cern
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« Reply #22 on: 09 September, 2010, 08:46:55 PM »

Thank you everyone who  has taken the time to respond. The problem is that everyone's experience is that little bit different and I don't seem to be getting a clear picture !!!!

I have decided to get some prices from the gp, the site I found after 'googling' SABIF. If their prices seem reasonable I will buy from them, if only to test another supplier !!

If things seem rather expensive, I will try Cavalitto, in spite of Sebastien's experience (worryingly I heard a similar tale of woe from another source!) as there does not seem to be another source (although Peter Harding's sleeved units get only positive reports).

Anyway, the rear wheel cylinders are out and look good so I will give them a light hone to see how good/bad the situation is before deciding on new units or just new seals.

I will keep posting and if anyone comes up with any further thoughts they will be gratefully received and carefully considered.

Best wishes,

                Andy
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #23 on: 10 September, 2010, 08:42:32 AM »


Now did you think you'd end up with the agony of choice?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
the.cern
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« Reply #24 on: 10 September, 2010, 07:49:12 PM »

The agony of choice goes on !!!!!  Choice is a luxury but is now proving to be a pain. Today things have got more difficult. I've honed the 2 rear cylinders and they seem quite acceptable, so seals seems a reasonable choice, except ............. one of the cylinders has a broken in-cylinder spring and none of the kits I've found so far include the spring !!!!!

Then there's the master cylinder, I had decided to buy  a new unit, but today honed the old one just to see how bad it was, guess what, its nigh-on perfect !!!! So I've decided to buy a kit for that and keep a very careful eye on the reservoir plunger.

The front cylinders will, I hope, reveal their gory secrets tomorrow, probably leading to more indecision !!!!

Now there are the linings to consider. The diff. seals have failed and so the rear linings must be replaced, an easy decision at last !!!  The fronts appear very good so I'm tempted to go with those for a while, even if only to clean up the drums. There is one thing I hope someone can help me with. These linings have what appear to be, but are not, 4 rivets on  a diagonal, they a flush with the lining surface and about 8mm dia. The rivets securing the lining to the shoe are clearly visible and well below the lining surface. Attached (I hope) is a photo which shows them. NB Jim has dissociated himself totally from the abomination  in the right foreground that is the home-made modification to a puller used to remove the drums !!

In summary, I am little further forward in my decision making, does anyone have an in-cylinder spring for a rear cylinder surplus to requirements and what are those rivet-like things in the front linings Huh?

Your help would be gratefully appreciated.

Best wishes,
                                          Andy


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Niels Jonassen
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« Reply #25 on: 10 September, 2010, 09:05:22 PM »

When - years ago - I restored our 3rd series B20 I found that all the springs in the wheel cylinders were badly corroded. I found a small workshop that produced springs at a very reasonable price. This happened in 1980, and things may have changed a lot since. Anyway, good luck.
Niels
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GG
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored


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« Reply #26 on: 11 September, 2010, 12:41:15 AM »

keep in mind to match drum curvature to the lining radius. Brake judder starts from a mismatch here.... Some folks have even added graphite plugs to the linings to lubricate the drum (an old pre-war trick).
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
Kevin MacBride
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« Reply #27 on: 11 September, 2010, 12:52:21 AM »

I think I read somewhere, either in the Aurelia workshop manual (LMC edition) or an issue of Viva Lancia, that some shoes had 'carbon' type fillets inserted into the linings to aid braking. I think fitting new linings would be cost effective, just make sure the person doing the job does not use too much heat when bonding the linings. I also read somewhere of alloy shoes melting !!
I had a local place do my shoes, I think they only cost about 50 Euro for an axle set, and that was Mintex competition linings. I'm  getting a set for my new 6th series fronts for my own car in the next week or so.
The 3rd series car I'm working on at present, also has a broken return spring on one front cylinder. I'll let you know if I source a replacement.
One thing to remember on the diff seals, is that the left hand side has a left hand thread for the big castle nut. I fitted 2 seals per side (there is enough room).
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B20 4th series (having a 'facelift')

2000 sedan
Fiat Multipla
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the.cern
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« Reply #28 on: 11 September, 2010, 07:57:14 AM »

Geoffrey and Kevin, I am sure you've hit the nail on the head with the carbon/graphite inserts, they have the right colour  and sheen.  Thank you for the advice to match shoe and drum diameter. My 'Aurelia Manual' shows a wonderful bit of kit for turning the linings to the correct diameter, will I get it done nowadays I wonder ??

Also, thank you for the reminder on the LH thread for the bearing seal, I would have made a mess of that !!!!

Its a little cooler and rather grey here but I must push on !!  More of the saga and pics to follow.

Many thanks for the help,

                       Andy
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ncundy
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« Reply #29 on: 11 September, 2010, 11:59:45 AM »

Andy,
My dad's got a small stock of the springs. I've pm'd you the contact details if you want some.
Neil
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