Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
05 June, 2020, 09:08:55 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Need to contact the Forum Administrator? e-mail forum.admin@lanciamc.co.uk, for Database Administrator e-mail database.admin@lanciamc.co.uk      -      Copy deadline for Viva Lancia is 12th of each month.      -      For Events e-mail events@lanciamc.co.uk      -      To Join the club go to http://www.lanciamc.co.uk/join.htm
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Saggy Bottom?  (Read 4568 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
LanciAlan
Lapsed
Megaposter
*
Posts: 369



« on: 15 January, 2010, 05:04:25 PM »

Flavia and 2000 models are prone to settling of the rear leaf springs and various remedies I have heard of include re-tempering of the springs or the fitting of auxiliary coil springs to help out the leaf springs.

Apparently the coil spring option was a period 1970s accessory that could be retro-fitted by the owner to a range of cars back in the daze when leaf springs were more the norm and when cars had to last longer - but didn't really.

As a distraction from the nearby Angola that is "When Two Clubs go to War", I found what looks like a set of these coil springs for relatively small money on eBay Italia - though I am open to correction as to what they may actually be!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180411262231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

From the descriptions I've heard, they fit in place of the rubber bump-stop on the car body at the upper end and are seated at the lower end on a conveniently located flat plate on the beam axle.

My own preferred solution which, though not scientifically endorsed, has proven very satisfactory in practice in terms of improved ride height and firmer handling was to add an extra leaf to the leaf springs - I also expect to be better equipped for towing  ... when I get that far - I'll need to put the "propelling unit" back in first!

I am sure this is not novel and that others have done it before me but I got the idea when I read in the "Zagato Competizione" book that a firmer/lower ride for track use was achieved by removing the longest spring and doubling the shortest, or vice versa - I forget, so I applied similar and, at the time, clearer thinking to achieving a firmer/higher ride - obviously after consulting with the missus.

I have been meaning to write it up in more detail for the quarterly Flavia Consortium newsletter .... along with that article for V-L about the marvellous set of over 70 1/43 scale Lancia models I am receiving in exciting parcel instalments of 6 models from Italy every few months ... and maybe a piece on the Lancia wonders of the internet for non-computerati ... and of course all those unwritten complimentary letters to the Editor marvelling at how he does it month on month.

Anyhow someone else may be interested in trying out the Flavia coil spring thing as it is not for me - I am sure it is fine but for me it smacks a bit of the type of 1970s "car accessory" the only real effect of which was to make your car heavier and slower!
« Last Edit: 15 January, 2010, 05:32:00 PM by LanciAlan » Logged

Alan Murphy

Lancias that begin with "F" ... and affordable variants beginning with "Z" and "P" ..... and now with added "Y"!
St Volumex
Lapsed
Rebel Poster
*
Posts: 613


Owner of RetroPart


WWW
« Reply #1 on: 15 January, 2010, 07:43:38 PM »

Hi Alan,

Another leaf in the Flavia's front spring really does the trick.

Kindest regards,
Logged

Guy McDougall
www.facebook.com/RetroPart
Rare Parts for Rare Machines
Appia Coupé S3 (Rosina), Appia Berlina S3 (La Giaconda), Fulvia 1.3S 5 spd coupé (Tigger, belongs to Carol), Beta Spyder S2 (Vivaldi), Montecarlo Spyder S2, HPE VX (Pugsly) etc
Richard Fridd
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 2900



« Reply #2 on: 15 January, 2010, 07:55:44 PM »

which leaf is best added i wonder. is it the middle one?
Logged

Richard Nevison Fridd
fensaddler
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1082



« Reply #3 on: 15 January, 2010, 08:21:06 PM »

I want to know how you've persuaded Hachette to send your models to a non-Italian address?  Please do tell, since I'd love to do the same...
Logged

Chris Owen
13245
1987 Delta 1.3LX
2012 Skoda Yeti 112TSi 4WD
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5821



« Reply #4 on: 15 January, 2010, 10:41:04 PM »

Flavia and 2000 models are prone to settling of the rear leaf springs and various remedies I have heard of include re-tempering of the springs or the fitting of auxiliary coil springs to help out the leaf springs.

Apparently the coil spring option was a period 1970s accessory that could be retro-fitted by the owner to a range of cars back in the daze when leaf springs were more the norm and when cars had to last longer - but didn't really.

As a distraction from the nearby Angola that is "When Two Clubs go to War", I found what looks like a set of these coil springs for relatively small money on eBay Italia - though I am open to correction as to what they may actually be!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180411262231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

From the descriptions I've heard, they fit in place of the rubber bump-stop on the car body at the upper end and are seated at the lower end on a conveniently located flat plate on the beam axle. at that price or anywhere near, they're a bargain. Grin

My own preferred solution which, though not scientifically endorsed, has proven very satisfactory in practice in terms of improved ride height and firmer handling was to add an extra leaf to the leaf springs - I also expect to be better equipped for towing  ... when I get that far - I'll need to put the "propelling unit" back in first!

I am sure this is not novel and that others have done it before me but I got the idea when I read in the "Zagato Competizione" book that a firmer/lower ride for track use was achieved by removing the longest spring and doubling the shortest, or vice versa - I forget, so I applied similar and, at the time, clearer thinking to achieving a firmer/higher ride - obviously after consulting with the missus.

I have been meaning to write it up in more detail for the quarterly Flavia Consortium newsletter .... along with that article for V-L about the marvellous set of over 70 1/43 scale Lancia models I am receiving in exciting parcel instalments of 6 models from Italy every few months ... and maybe a piece on the Lancia wonders of the internet for non-computerati ... and of course all those unwritten complimentary letters to the Editor marvelling at how he does it month on month.

Anyhow someone else may be interested in trying out the Flavia coil spring thing as it is not for me - I am sure it is fine but for me it smacks a bit of the type of 1970s "car accessory" the only real effect of which was to make your car heavier and slower!
From the Garbled Translation from Altavistababelfish, it certainly seems that's what they are, I think they are still available, or something similar for caravan tow car to stiffen up the springs.

Just looked this up on Google.
LANCIA

MODEL YEAR RUBBER RINGS  AUX.COIL SPRING  
BETA 73-87 GE15 65S560
DELTA, PRISMA  80-93 GE15 65S760
DEDRA 90 -- GE15 19C02H
TREVI 80-85 GE15 65S560
THEMA 85-94 GE15 OR H/D SPRINGS 1901PRO
GAMMA 78-85 GE15 -
H.P.E 75-85 GE14 65S560

www.springassisters.co.uk  But not cheap

I'd also would like to know how you persuaded Harchette to supply you with the Lancia models and the accompanying history, I managed to get 5 of them from a friend in Holland, but I would certainly like to get hold of the complete set.

Brian
8227 Cool
« Last Edit: 15 January, 2010, 10:43:06 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
fensaddler
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1082



« Reply #5 on: 15 January, 2010, 11:32:07 PM »

I've got various via e-bay at inflated prices from sellers in Italy, but I'd really rather have subscribed.  Perhaps its just saving me from myself...

BTW, whilst I'm in Flavia world - who should I contact in the consortium?  Its your 50th anniversary guys, and as your irrepressible Press Officer, I have plans, and you can't escape...  Primarily I need help, and some good pictures, so that I can put together a decent press release.

I'll need to do the same for the Thema 25th, but this isn't perhaps the right place - and I think I need to speak to Mr Angle Grinder.
« Last Edit: 15 January, 2010, 11:35:25 PM by fensaddler » Logged

Chris Owen
13245
1987 Delta 1.3LX
2012 Skoda Yeti 112TSi 4WD
stuwilson128
Non-LMC Seller
Rebel Poster
*
Posts: 827



WWW
« Reply #6 on: 16 January, 2010, 03:42:28 PM »

BTW, whilst I'm in Flavia world - who should I contact in the consortium?  Its your 50th anniversary guys, and as your irrepressible Press Officer, I have plans, and you can't escape...  Primarily I need help, and some good pictures, so that I can put together a decent press release.

Chris, I have sent you a P.M. in relation to this!
Logged

Stuart Wilson 11175
1973 Fulvia Coupe 1.3
2000 Lybra SW 2.4JTd
2009 Delta 1.9 Twin Turbo
LanciAlan
Lapsed
Megaposter
*
Posts: 369



« Reply #7 on: 17 January, 2010, 10:39:35 AM »

With apologies for slight delay (I check in here as a reader most days but am unaccustomed to handling correspondence!):

Guy - surely you don't mean an extra front leaf can elevate the back? I did some excavations at this end too, compressing each end of the transverse spring in turn to replace the rubber bushes, remove wishbones etc. However on the way out I managed to fit one anti-roll bar mounting upside-down. It took me about a week of e-mails to Viva-Lancia.com and the like to figure out why one side of the car was 3 inches higher than the other as I thought I had strained the spring!

Chris and Brian, re Hachette, I approached some of the on-line vendors and found one who agreed to order and forward them to me at a reasonable markup. He has sent me all the Lancia models in the Auto Italiane Series and all of the Lancia Story Collection so far. I can put you in touch if you like as I have got a few for people here and he seems to be quite agreeable to do more business in this way. Some of the models are really fab and when I started collecting I never thought I would be able to fill my model cabinet with over 70 Lancias in 1/43. Weird thing is they have so far produced every Lancia variant I own - and in exactly the same colours as my cars too! I presume you've seen their website:

http://www.hachette-fascicoli.it/hachette-catalogo.asp

And this chap has kindly put up pictures of the whole lot:http://www.sgurz.it/DieCast/In%20Edicola/In%20Edicola.htm

Richard, I doubled up on the longest spring leaf (well the longest but for the uppermost one that connects to the body). I did this on the basis that, unlike the lower leafs (leaves?) this longest one runs almost the full length of the one above and would thus be more likely to provide the required "assistance" along its full length whereas reinforcing any shorter leaf would introduce an increased likelihood of failure in the leaf above at the point of overhang. Not terribly scientific I know. In any case its the upper ones that sag as I found out after my first attempt when I replaced all but the uppermost leaf because I did not have replacement bushes to hand at the time. The car sat higher overall but still sagged on one side as it had done before. After I pulled it all apart again and replaced the top leaves too, all was well. The ride height looks ok, I can take 4 passengers with luggage on touring trips and the handling over bumpy roads is firmer. At least it was when I had an engine/gearbox/subframe in the car until last Summer - but that's a different story!

Regarding the Flavia 50th in 2010, I understand the Flavia/2000 Consortium is considering whether to organise its AGM around a UK celebration of this event and/or whether to join in any wider European celebration. For my part I have signed up to the trip to Trieste in September being organised by the Dutch Club at www.flavia50.com and am just hoping I'll have a car ready to go in as this bit didn't happen for me in the 2006 Centenary!

Alan
« Last Edit: 17 January, 2010, 10:47:52 AM by LanciAlan » Logged

Alan Murphy

Lancias that begin with "F" ... and affordable variants beginning with "Z" and "P" ..... and now with added "Y"!
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5821



« Reply #8 on: 17 January, 2010, 11:49:39 AM »

Alan,
Thanks for all the information, can you please put me in touch with your seller of the Hatchette models please.

Where did you obtain your springs from as I'm looking at possibly changing them completely or perhaps a leaf as you did on my Fulvia Berlina.
We took at lot of luggage and tools on our drive to Portrugal and back in 2004 and ever since then she tends to squat a bit, although I really believe though it was down to all the Pizzas that Simon Davis my navigator eat  Grin

Brian
8227 Cool
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Angle Grinder
Megaposter
*
Posts: 395



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 17 January, 2010, 05:35:42 PM »

My Flavia had its rear springs replaced in 2007 by the previous owner. He told me that the springs were repaired by the same company that makes them for London Cabs, but I can't tell you any more than that.

I don't have any invoices that verify the manufacturer of the springs, but the work was done by Clarence Motors in London and their telephone is 020 7701 2594. A call to them might get you an answer on who they use for this type of work.

The repair work on the springs was invoiced at £260.
Logged

Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5821



« Reply #10 on: 17 January, 2010, 06:52:59 PM »

Thanks for the information mike.

How's the Flavia PF Coupe coming alond?

Brian
8227 Cool
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
LanciAlan
Lapsed
Megaposter
*
Posts: 369



« Reply #11 on: 17 January, 2010, 11:07:39 PM »

Alan,
Thanks for all the information, can you please put me in touch with your seller of the Hatchette models please.

Where did you obtain your springs from as I'm looking at possibly changing them completely or perhaps a leaf as you did on my Fulvia Berlina.
We took at lot of luggage and tools on our drive to Portrugal and back in 2004 and ever since then she tends to squat a bit, although I really believe though it was down to all the Pizzas that Simon Davis my navigator eat  Grin

Brian
8227 Cool

Brian

I'll pass you the details of the Hachette supplier in a pm after I've told him you're coming.

I got a spare set of s/h springs with my car and I basically just dismantled and reconditioned those by rotary wire-brushing and hammerite and then re-used the top leaves from the old springs to give the extra lift.

I had to improvise on the spring clamp thingys as the standard ones are only made to fit the normal number of leaves. For this I used stuff called "galvoband" which is galvanised metal strips with perforations all along. I found it worked very well. I have some pics somewhere.

Alan

Logged

Alan Murphy

Lancias that begin with "F" ... and affordable variants beginning with "Z" and "P" ..... and now with added "Y"!
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5821



« Reply #12 on: 17 January, 2010, 11:14:19 PM »

Alan,
Thanks for all the information, can you please put me in touch with your seller of the Hatchette models please.

Where did you obtain your springs from as I'm looking at possibly changing them completely or perhaps a leaf as you did on my Fulvia Berlina.
We took at lot of luggage and tools on our drive to Portrugal and back in 2004 and ever since then she tends to squat a bit, although I really believe though it was down to all the Pizzas that Simon Davis my navigator eat  Grin

Brian
8227 Cool

Brian

I'll pass you the details of the Hachette supplier in a pm after I've told him you're coming.

I got a spare set of s/h springs with my car and I basically just dismantled and reconditioned those by rotary wire-brushing and hammerite and then re-used the top leaves from the old springs to give the extra lift.

I had to improvise on the spring clamp thingys as the standard ones are only made to fit the normal number of leaves. For this I used stuff called "galvoband" which is galvanised metal strips with perforations all along. I found it worked very well. I have some pics somewhere.

Alan


Thanks Alan,
So you actually added an extra spring rather than getting them reset if I understand correctly, some photos would be very welcome.

Brian
8227 Cool
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
ColinMarr
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1555



« Reply #13 on: 17 January, 2010, 11:39:16 PM »

I know of the London based taxi-spring forge that Angle Grinder refers to. It used to be in Stock Orchard Street, Islington, but has moved nearby in recent years. I’ll get their details and post them later.

Colin
Logged
ColinMarr
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1555



« Reply #14 on: 18 January, 2010, 10:15:35 AM »

The London spring company referred to is almost certainly Brost Forge.

Brost now operate from Unit 7, 149 Roman Way, London N7 8XH. Tel: 020 7607 2311. They do taxi springs, but are also quite well known in the classic car world. Small and chaotic – don’t expect a receptionist!

Colin
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2018 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.08 seconds with 21 queries.