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Author Topic: S1 Starting Problem  (Read 5775 times)
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ncundy
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« Reply #15 on: 31 March, 2009, 10:59:22 AM »

I cannot recall how easy or difficult it is when on the car (along time since I did it on the car and the one I have just finished I did with the engine out), but clean it all very well before starting. I do have a lot of photos of the pump in various stages of disassembly so if you want any of those let me know.
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nistri
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« Reply #16 on: 31 March, 2009, 11:29:15 AM »

Removing the fuel pump is not difficult, even though on the Fulvia Sport the side opening of the bonnet does not help. It is better to remove the air filter box first. The S1 one pumps were the best and much better than aftermarket replacements. Some of them actually had a small filter for easy cleaning.
Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

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fay66
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« Reply #17 on: 31 March, 2009, 10:30:37 PM »

Hi Greg,

If you take the airbox, trumpets and cooling fan and post off, then you can get at the fuel pump, although you can leave the fan & pillar in place, it makes life easier with it out of the way.

It's a bit of a fiddle to get at the back nut on the pump but can be done, when you tighten the nuts up make sure you pull them up equally, or you might distort the pump flange.

I've always had a seep of oil from mine even with a new pump and gasket.

Note on picture No.3 the support for the airbox, most important that this is connected correctly as if not fitted, or loose, it will strain the flexible carb mountings.
It's not necessary to remove it, just slacken off the top bolt at the back of the airbox (fiddle job), if you do decide to remove it, note the rubber bush and sleeve in the bottom mounting.

Finally, if you think the Coupe is short of room to work, have a look at the radiator on my 2c Shocked
Brian
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* I Can't see the Fuel Pump.jpg (114.05 KB, 600x459 - viewed 185 times.)

* All in Place.jpg (113.18 KB, 600x426 - viewed 164 times.)

* Remove Airbox +Trumpets.jpg (101.63 KB, 600x450 - viewed 216 times.)

* Access to F-Pump Fan in situ.jpg (129.21 KB, 600x458 - viewed 217 times.)

* Access to Change Fuel Pump.jpg (150.27 KB, 600x450 - viewed 182 times.)
« Last Edit: 31 March, 2009, 10:47:07 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
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Greg
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« Reply #18 on: 01 April, 2009, 08:10:02 AM »

Thanks guys for the help, once again it should prove very useful. I will let you know how I get on, hopefully by tomorrow.
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ColinMarr
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« Reply #19 on: 01 April, 2009, 08:30:44 PM »

Good pictures Brian! Looks like you could walk into it all with spanners in hand and sort it out. But with a sideways opening bonnet on my Sport, I only know the delights of accessing the fuel pump from the underneath, and from the top by feel. And I seem to remember needing a very thin-walled 13mm socket to fit on the main nuts. Such pleasures.

Colin 
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rdemasi
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« Reply #20 on: 01 April, 2009, 08:53:19 PM »

In a pinch I've taken off the fuel hose connected to the first carb and hooked it up to a MityVac, the hand vacuum pump, to get fuel from the tank through the fuel pump.  Then let the starter push it through to the carbs.  Eventually though I've connected an electric pump on a momentary switch.

In the photos I've noticed the edge of the fan blades painted in red.  Does it provide good visibility of the fan when spinning?
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Greg
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« Reply #21 on: 01 April, 2009, 09:28:56 PM »

Good evening everyone, guess what it didn't run smoothly, well it kind of did until I hit a problem. Thanks for all the tips for taking the pump off they worked very well. Colin I found it easier to take the bonnet off, so that I could get clear access from the side. Anyway please look at the annotated images below hopeful they will explain where I am better than my words would.

As you can see they new fuel pump is slightly different! So doesn't fit. I really donít want to get a grinder and have to shave of bits of metal until it will slide on, so do you think I will be able to get away with taking the top off and rotating it and then bolting it back together? I'm guessing that as this is the one Omicron have sent me, others that are more like the original are not available, I would ask them but I only got round to trying to put the pump on tonight, I guess I will give them a call o see what they advise on this as well, Does anyone else have an idea on this are there other pumps available that have a inlet and outlet orientated closer to the original?

Also just out of interest I immersed the inlet of the old pump in some petrol and manually pump it, pushing on the lever activated by the pushrod. It seemed to pump, so have I wasted my time with this, or am I right because of the leak, to change the pump?


* Fuel Pump 1April09.jpg (510.42 KB, 1240x1754 - viewed 176 times.)
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fay66
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« Reply #22 on: 02 April, 2009, 12:31:42 AM »

Hi Greg,
You're not alone, we had to relieve the the parts shown to make my pump fit, which was also sourced from Omicron, although you can't see the modification in the photos.
From what I remember it wasn't any great hardship to do, so I wouldn't worry about taking the pump apart and relocating the top, as I would suspect that would be a lot more hassle than the alternative. Roll Eyes

As it's all alloy that needs relieving, something like a Dremel would be useful.

Brian
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1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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fay66
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« Reply #23 on: 02 April, 2009, 01:08:01 AM »

Good pictures Brian! Looks like you could walk into it all with spanners in hand and sort it out. But with a sideways opening bonnet on my Sport, I only know the delights of accessing the fuel pump from the underneath, and from the top by feel. And I seem to remember needing a very thin-walled 13mm socket to fit on the main nuts. Such pleasures.

Colin 


Hi Colin,
I always take lots of photos these days as I quite often forget how things came apart, must be something to do with my age! Roll Eyes
I used a waisted socket to get at the rear nut.
I obviously didn't take it in that Chris's Fulvia is a series 1 Sport, in his latest posting he says that he took the side opening bonnet off, I remember you saying a while back something about removing the bonnet?
Would certainly make life easier than working from underneath.

The one job I have to do on the 2c from underneath that I hate with a passion, is removing the bottom rad hose to water pump, a job for which I could do with double jointed elbows Angry

When changing the bottom hose on a Berlina there is so little room to work in even with the grille out, that, pig of a job though it maybe, in the long run it's easier to remove the airbox, fan & Pillar, dynamo & belts, and finally the radiator with hose attached, but free from the water pump end, to undo the clip and change the hose,
I then put the radiator back in with the bottom hose already attached, a replay of the double jointed elbow bit then follows to get it back onto the water pump stub. I've now learnt that if I ever need to take the radiator out, the bottom hose gets replaced irrespective how long it's been fitted.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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fay66
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« Reply #24 on: 02 April, 2009, 01:11:27 AM »



In the photos I've noticed the edge of the fan blades painted in red.  Does it provide good visibility of the fan when spinning?

Just enough to stop you sticking you fingers in the fan Grin, I tried red this time but it works better with yellow, and much more effective if you take the paint about half an inch down the blades both sides.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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« Reply #25 on: 02 April, 2009, 06:56:41 AM »

Changing the subject slightly, I was competing on a two day rally in the HF and wrongly diagnosed a failing fuel pump as closing points. Half way through the night section on a lonely forest road in Norfolk the car finally gave up. No probs as I had a new pump, a helpful navigator and a powerful torch etc. What I did not have was a thin extension bar. I called the RAC explaining what I needed and twenty minutes later help arrived! We went on to finish last.
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Greg
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« Reply #26 on: 02 April, 2009, 10:17:27 AM »

Right I've had a go at taking the pump apart then rotating it. And in short, yes fay66 I think you are right, so I have taken some of the material off the edge of the pump. I am still reluctant to remove material from the block, so hopefully this will prove good enough to allow me to get it on.
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nistri
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« Reply #27 on: 02 April, 2009, 11:54:29 AM »

I had not realized that Omicron supply this kind of fuel pump which is obviously different from the original and even the aftermarket replacements. Aftermarket fuel pumps are still produced in Italy and usually available at reasonable price. The company is BCD Corona and their code # 1009-5. I am told that a good spare stockist should have this, although admittedly I had no reasons to buy one.

In nearly 30 y of Fulvia ownership, I have changed the fuel pump on my Fulvias only once and that was when I just bought my white coupe over 10 y ago. It is rare that these pumps fail in normal use (though it is common to see a slight oil leak from the mounting plate). Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

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Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
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Greg
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« Reply #28 on: 02 April, 2009, 01:20:32 PM »

Thanks Andrea I will keep this in mind. I've trimmed down the fuel pump so I have just to see if it will now fit, hopefully it will. If not I will see if I can find the one you mention.
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Greg
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« Reply #29 on: 07 April, 2009, 06:32:14 PM »

Right an update. First thanks for all you help it has been invaluable and I've got the car going again so all is good. As I have said I "trimmed" the fuel pump down and got it on to the engine, got everything back on tried to start the engine. Nothing! Not even the starter turning, so charged the battery and then when I got some time, ie today put it back on the car and away we go. Gave the car a 15 or so mile run and it went like a dream. It was great to hear that V4 again after my efforts! Any way thank you all again your help was brilliant.

Thanks,
Greg.
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