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Author Topic: Poor Massa  (Read 7975 times)
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peterbaker
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« Reply #15 on: 09 September, 2008, 12:16:14 PM »

Interesting comments, maybe F1 is passed its sell by date, after all, who can justify wasting eighty litres of fuel every twenty laps or so for no apparent reason. Unless it rains.
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fay66
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« Reply #16 on: 09 September, 2008, 11:36:30 PM »


and why should Massa have been hit with a track penalty after Valencia?? Massa was released too soon by his put crew, & Ferrari got fined because of that, imposing a penalty on Massa would have been quite unfair. Its not Massa's job to second guess his crew, as soon as they release him (& every other driver) then he puts his foot down.

What happened to Hamilton is a result of the ruling that he should not have gained an advantage after cutting the corner (how ever it happened), he clearly did, although he gave back the place promptly, the advantage gained was a superior straight line speed out of the corner because he didn't take the corner correctly & with less than five laps to go the stewards had no choice but to impose a time penalty

You obviously know the rules better than I do, but Ron Dennis said immediately afterwards in an interview that they had asked for an opinion of Charlie Whiting who it appears seemed to think the manouver wasn't a problem, as the place was given back, however it seems from the report in mondays Daily Mail that it was Whiting  who would have asked the stewards to investigate, as they act solely on his reports, it also asks the question why he didn't report  Raikkonon for overtaking just as a yellow flag was being first waved?

I would suggest it's worth reading the report by The Mails Motor Racing Correspondent, Johnathon McEvoy.

Brian
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toby2449
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« Reply #17 on: 10 September, 2008, 03:06:04 PM »


ah i love the press, a more biased opinion you couldn't get, don't they know Bennetton & Ferrari were different teams?? A bit of research me thinks! Grin
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fay66
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« Reply #18 on: 10 September, 2008, 07:03:26 PM »

I only offer the following as an observation from a friend in the USA.

 toby2449 said of Hamilton “although he gave back the place promptly, the advantage gained was a superior straight line speed out of the corner because he didn't take the corner correctly”. Interestingly, this is the same argument I’m seeing in the other forums.

 

But my question would be this: How could Hamilton have “superior straight line speed” and still give back the place to Kimi? In other words, how could he have “superior straight line speed out of the corner” at the same time that he let Kimi pass him? Are the laws of physics different there? Is it actually possible to be going faster than another car while that same car is passing you??? Huh?

Brian
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« Reply #19 on: 10 September, 2008, 09:18:35 PM »

The same thought occured to me, and as I said before, although a Massa fan I think the whole think stinks. Thank goodness I can still remember meeting Jim Clark. Another time, another place.
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j886atv
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« Reply #20 on: 11 September, 2008, 10:13:17 AM »

But my question would be this: How could Hamilton have “superior straight line speed” and still give back the place to Kimi? In other words, how could he have “superior straight line speed out of the corner” at the same time that he let Kimi pass him? Are the laws of physics different there? Is it actually possible to be going faster than another car while that same car is passing you??? Huh?

Brian

I'm sure yuo know this - but i think the logic above re straight line speed is more to do with the fact that he didn't back all the way off at the chicane to go round it properly - so he gained an advantage in his own speed rather than the relative value to the Ferrari.

Still think the decision stinks though.....

Duncan
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toby2449
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« Reply #21 on: 12 September, 2008, 03:39:46 PM »


exactly right there duncan.

But it may seem like a harsh penalty, however its the only penalty the stewards could impose, & they HAD to impose a penalty, sends out all the wrong signals if drivers are allowed away with gaining an advantage from cutting a chicane (for whatever reason)
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ian
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« Reply #22 on: 12 September, 2008, 04:29:01 PM »

I think that the decision was correct., but I think that Hamilton will cock it up this weekend, his lack of experience will show through again..........I'm just off to get my hard hat! Grin 
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toby2449
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« Reply #23 on: 12 September, 2008, 06:48:18 PM »


have to admit, i think Ferrari will get hammered this weekend, both Kimi & Massa have engines that already had to cope with Spa, & Ferrari were very poor on home soil last year, plus testing showed Mclaren to be very strong, & thats not even taking into consideration that it might rain.

By the way, i say this as a huge Ferrari fan (not matter who's driving for them) have been since the bad old days of the early 1990's, so its not easy for me to think the above!
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stuwilson128
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« Reply #24 on: 12 September, 2008, 09:39:15 PM »

Having read this weeks Autosport, there is a small panel explaining the view of the stewards.  This that while Hamilton backed off and let Kimi pass, he would not have been as close to Kimi to get by at La Source had he taken the chicane properly.  Also, when he let Kimi retake the lead, he ducked straight back into his slipstream, therefore making the overtake easier.  Had Hamilton taken the chicane, then he would have still been in the dirty air off the Ferrari, and so would not have been in a position to overtake where he did.  Also stated is the fact that Charlie Whiting, on review of the race, concluded that an offence had occurred.  The result was the penalty given.

This precident had been set at Suzuka in 2005 when Alonso jumped a chicane (passing Christian Klien).  He backed off momentarily before passing Klien again.  He was then told to let Klien pass again so as to avoid a penalty.

As a lifelong Ferrari fan (who dislikes McLaren with a passion!) I hope the penalty stands and is not overturned in the court of appeal.
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Stuart Wilson 11175
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« Reply #25 on: 13 September, 2008, 12:51:05 AM »

And Kimi no doubt would still have stuffed it into the barrier Grin, all other comments aside, the best driver on the day, in the prevailing appalling rainy conditions with dry tyres didn't win Angry   

I love Italy,Italian cars, and most things Italian, but I'm no lover of Ferrari mainly due to the antics they get up to when things don't go their way.
Admittedly no longer as bad as it used to be with a certain MS in the driving seat.

Brian
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« Reply #26 on: 13 September, 2008, 08:31:46 AM »

Passion. Nobody does it better than Ferrari.
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« Reply #27 on: 13 September, 2008, 10:24:13 AM »

Passion. Nobody does it better than Ferrari.

This is why I am a Ferrari fan.  To me, McLaren is nothing more than a soulless corporate company with no passion whatsoever!
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Stuart Wilson 11175
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ian
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« Reply #28 on: 13 September, 2008, 09:38:52 PM »

We are all going to be Ferrari fans, it goes without saying  Wink All the teams are corporate company's but I wouldn't say that they are soulless at all. Its still all about money, the plug could be pulled at any time for the teams (contracts withstanding!) All, the people who work for the teams have a passion for their sport and all want to succeed, but at the same time need to make at least some money, that's the nature of life I'm afraid  Cry
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« Reply #29 on: 13 September, 2008, 09:50:41 PM »

We are all going to be Ferrari fans

Nope - no feeling for them whatsoever.  Don't like the racing team, don't like the road cars.  I'm sorry if that is near heretical on here...!  The only F1 team I've ever felt inclined to support was Renault, in my youth, in the days of Arnoux and Jabouille (no interest now).  Any interest at all that I have (and its not much compared to my passion for Walsall FC) is confined to support for particular drivers.
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