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Author Topic: Sticking brake issue - Testing the adjustment  (Read 2682 times)
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fulvia888
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« on: 03 September, 2023, 07:57:13 PM »

Hi
Am looking for some experience or advice on my brakes - have a S3 1976 , have had it for about  9 months , and for the first 8 months all great , however recently it has developed a serious braking issue - After approx 10 miles my brakes will begin to engage independently , initially slowing me down , however after a minute or so bringing me to a full standstill - brakes fully locked on - all without me touching the brakes . The pedal is rock solid Ö  After 20 / 30 mins by the side of the road the hard pedal will disappear and brakes unlockÖ This has developed over the last few weeks thoughts are focused on the servo / master  as itís all 4 wheels that are locking up - Has anyone experienced similar , or has any experience - advise would be much appreciated as itís practically undriveable currently .
Cheers
« Last Edit: 11 September, 2023, 01:26:01 PM by fulvia888 » Logged
davidwheeler
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« Reply #1 on: 03 September, 2023, 09:49:48 PM »

The rod in the servo is slightly too long.  You need to take off the master cylinder from the body of the servo and reduce the length of the actuating rod by screwing the ajustment in a bit.   This is a well known feature of Fulvias.   In an emergency you will find that loosening the pipe nuts at the master cylinder will release a bit of fluid and relax the brakes.
I think there is a thread on this here https://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6195.msg43544#msg43544
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
fulvia888
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« Reply #2 on: 04 September, 2023, 05:38:36 AM »

Will certainly follow up on that , can see how the rod being too long could inhibit the master cylinder from returning to a fully released position , however am still confused by the brakes applying themselves and the progressive increase in force  of application. Am thinking vacuum supply or lack of - could that induce the servo to engage  ?     Quick visual of hose - correct type - vacuum not fuel , will examine / replace the valve  Shall let you know what I find with the rod length .
Thanks

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lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 04 September, 2023, 08:15:45 AM »

Will certainly follow up on that , can see how the rod being too long could inhibit the master cylinder from returning to a fully released position , however am still confused by the brakes applying themselves and the progressive increase in force  of application. Am thinking vacuum supply or lack of - could that induce the servo to engage  ?     Quick visual of hose - correct type - vacuum not fuel , will examine / replace the valve  Shall let you know what I find with the rod length .
Thanks


Fluid expands when heated up..... so when issue starts it creates what is called positive feed back and makes matters worse...
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21.  12v
Neil
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« Reply #4 on: 04 September, 2023, 12:30:14 PM »

Also check the brake pedal under the dash is not sticking too, hot weather can cause them to bind.
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Neil   
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1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
SanRemo78
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« Reply #5 on: 04 September, 2023, 01:28:59 PM »

Had a similar issue with a Fiat 124 Spider. Easily diagnosed as the push rod length by slackening off the two locknuts half a turn. If that resolves the problem then shorten the rod by the thickness of half a turn on the locknut. Repeat until the problem goes - so long as you still have brakes!
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oldracer
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« Reply #6 on: 04 September, 2023, 06:11:53 PM »

Also check the brake pedal under the dash is not sticking too, hot weather can cause them to bind.

I haven't had them bind in hot weather but I've had a solid brake pedal, which I only discovered once I'd set off, most disconcerting.

Presumably the fact the fluid expands in hot weather was to blame as the car had been sat at a show in blazing sunshine for several hours.

I was able to get home using engine braking and gentle application on the pedal itself but it was not a fun journey.
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1972 1.3 Fulvia berlina S2
1937 DKW F7
chriswgawne
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« Reply #7 on: 05 September, 2023, 07:39:14 AM »

Its been a couple of years since I worked on Fulvia brakes but I have certainly experienced solid and soft pedals over the last 50 years on several occasions.
Either issue is very disconcerting inevitably  leading to a loss of confidence which is not pleasant.
I have to say that adjusting the length of the rod when a solid pedal has occurred ( assuming previously the brakes were fine for some months) has never worked for me.
On almost every occasion the problem has been with the master cylinder ( and once with the remote servo on a GTE Berlina). I cant tell you exactly why each problem occurred but my fail safe solution was always to fit a new master cylinder (or very occasionally re-seal the m/cyl if a new one wasn't available).
As to the suggestion that problems might be caused by fluid expansion, how is one then able to push the pistons back in the wheel cylinders when fitting new pads?
To me, its a bit like the false economy of using old tyres - the integrity of your braking system is vital for road safety - and not just for you of course.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #8 on: 05 September, 2023, 12:53:20 PM »

Shortening the rod has certainly worked for me though.    Certainly the thing to try first.    Not always due to hot weather either, just using the brakes is enough to set it off.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
ColinMarr
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« Reply #9 on: 05 September, 2023, 01:52:51 PM »

And if you donít mind working blind upside down in the footwell you can adjust the length of the pushrod without disturbing the servo. What fun!
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fulvia888
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« Reply #10 on: 05 September, 2023, 07:17:28 PM »

A busy day today -  On the brakes - changed the servo non return valve , bleed the brakes , reduced the fluid level in the reservoir as it was above the max . Additionally on the engine changed the leaking carb mounting , and whilst that was off changed the gasket on the leaking fuel pump , which had been leaving an oil slick on the garage floor . Did  need and have help - Thanks Tim ,  his experience particularly when it came to balancing the carbs after removal was vital. The test drive with the balanced carb was much more responsive , and although only 1/2hr and 10 miles no repeat of the phantom braking ...... could it have been as simple as overfilled reservoir  or a  sticking non return valve . Time will tell ,a longer drive is planned for this weekend.
Oh did contort myself into the drivers footwell to checkout the rod, now I am a bit more familiar and I'll be ready for this potential adjustment  should the issue arise again....At the moment am still far from confident   
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lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 05 September, 2023, 07:54:45 PM »

A busy day today -  On the brakes - changed the servo non return valve , bleed the brakes , reduced the fluid level in the reservoir as it was above the max . Additionally on the engine changed the leaking carb mounting , and whilst that was off changed the gasket on the leaking fuel pump , which had been leaving an oil slick on the garage floor . Did  need and have help - Thanks Tim ,  his experience particularly when it came to balancing the carbs after removal was vital. The test drive with the balanced carb was much more responsive , and although only 1/2hr and 10 miles no repeat of the phantom braking ...... could it have been as simple as overfilled reservoir  or a  sticking non return valve . Time will tell ,a longer drive is planned for this weekend.
Oh did contort myself into the drivers footwell to checkout the rod, now I am a bit more familiar and I'll be ready for this potential adjustment  should the issue arise again....At the moment am still far from confident   

The rod you need to adjust if at all is between the servo and m/c not in the pedal box.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21.  12v
ColinMarr
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« Reply #12 on: 05 September, 2023, 09:32:56 PM »

Perhaps it's different on late series cars, but with S1 Fulvias you can disconnect the pushrod from the ball on the brake pedal, loosen the lock nut and adjust the length of the rod.
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Beckerman67
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« Reply #13 on: 06 September, 2023, 04:25:08 AM »

Quote
The rod you need to adjust if at all is between the servo and m/c not in the pedal box.



* Servo Pushrod.jpg (191.76 KB, 1047x921 - viewed 46 times.)
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Richard Fridd
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« Reply #14 on: 06 September, 2023, 05:34:57 AM »

Do these two adjustments have two different functions? Is the more accessible one for pedal free play?

 Richard
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Richard Nevison Fridd                                                                      Happy Lancia, Happy Life
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