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Author Topic: assembling sliding pillar  (Read 1937 times)
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DavidHill
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« Reply #15 on: 10 July, 2022, 07:44:22 PM »

After struggling for some time with the circlips, i gave up and instead used Loctite Threadlocker, much easier and probably stronger!  The bottom spring holders then went on fairly easily once i had the car up a few feet with the ezycarlift and then used a jack to hold the large socket tool i made onto the bottom spring holder.  Its so much easier with proper access!

hopefully i can finish the reassembly this week and then for a test drive again...
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DavidHill
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« Reply #16 on: 11 July, 2022, 05:46:12 PM »

sorry one more question on assembly...the upper kingpin sleeve - part number 38-73041 which screws into the upper part of the sliding pillar seems to have a seal at the bottom - that i don't have on my sliding pillars - part number 38-73081.  What does that seal do? Should there be oil or grease inside the sleeve that keeps the upper bush lubricated that this seal keeps in??


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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #17 on: 11 July, 2022, 08:15:06 PM »

David, it's a felt seal deigned to keep some of the grime out I think - picture of one in situ without the lower domed washer in place


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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
ColinMarr
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« Reply #18 on: 11 July, 2022, 08:46:02 PM »

I am profoundly impressed by the professionalism and thoroughness shown here. I can only contrast it to earlier times when changing an Aprilia front main-spring was done by lowering the car onto a Harry Manning type tool seated on a flat steel plate. And lining it all up carefully so as not to cross-thread it on reassembly. I can recall taking a spring out of an axle removed from a car, simply by holding the axle vertically in a garage doorway and using the tool held in-situ with a bottle-jack across the doorway while easing it out. Primitive times!
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DavidHill
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« Reply #19 on: 14 July, 2022, 08:08:33 PM »

I managed to get both sliding pillars completely reassembled and bled the brakes and refitted the wheel and finally took the Aprilia for a drive round the block.  End result - some slight improvement - but still does not feel right.  I also still get the violent front wheel vibrations at low speeds. Damn. Next step is to borrow a wheel alignment kit and check the toe in - Noel Macwhirter mentions that as solving his front end vibration...so well worth try!
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GG
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« Reply #20 on: 14 July, 2022, 09:16:26 PM »

Have you checked the wheels for trueness?
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B20 s.2, Appia C10, Flavia 2000
DavidHill
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« Reply #21 on: 15 July, 2022, 07:30:06 AM »

yes wheels are ok, with new tyres and balanced.  I don't think they are the cause, but plan to rotate them just in case.  Talking to Peter Harding last night he suggested fitting a later series damper adjuster and using that to reduce the hardness of the damping...so will be investigating sourcing that and getting that fitted too.
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GG
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« Reply #22 on: 15 July, 2022, 10:53:15 AM »

Not to push this point too hard, the wheels might be balanced, but may still be out of true... they can have a side to side wobble. It happens with the older wheels, the flange to the hub is thin metal, and over time, they take a set. They can balance that out (sort of) but it doesn't quite fix the problem. I've found this to be a problem on Aurelias and Appias.
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B20 s.2, Appia C10, Flavia 2000
nistri
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« Reply #23 on: 15 July, 2022, 05:25:55 PM »

Refit the wheels with 90 degree rotation with respect to the hubs, and test drive your car, Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

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Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
Andrew Cox
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« Reply #24 on: 15 July, 2022, 10:18:01 PM »

I had a similar problem with my Aprilia which took me a while to remedy.
Noel Macwhirter and I first checked the front end alignment and found it be within tolerance. I had new tyres fitted and balanced but still had the problem. Geoff Goldberg’s comments are pertinent as it became evident that the wheels were out of true and the problem was resolved once the wheels were repaired.
My car is fitted with Fergat wheels which are of a fairly lightweight construction. A common problem is that over tightening the wheel nuts will crush the mound around the stud hole which will send the wheel off-true. I guess the use of brass wheel nuts was intended to mitigate this problem as most people would be wary of damaging the nut.
All four wheels required adjustment on my car so I suspect the problem is very common and Geoff’s comments are apt. The lesson for me was that a “balanced” wheel is not necessarily “true”.
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Artena/Lince Special, 1938 Aprilia (ex Stainless Stephen), 1938 Aprilia chassis, 1966 Fulvia coupe, ex Lambda custodian.
DavidHill
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« Reply #25 on: 16 July, 2022, 05:00:29 PM »

Ref wheels: I fitted two spare wheels with old tyres on I have to the front of the Aprilia and then went for another short drive round the block this morning.  It did drive a little better- so I do think I should get my wheels checked over and potentially "trued up". ...however the viscous wheel wobble is still there...and I think the critical symptom is that it is not there all the time and does not appear at certain speeds...it just seems to happen randomly, but often.  It does seem to be brought on in a mild way with braking (again not all the time), but this morning I was doing about 30mph downhill and all was smooth, then as I went uphill at the same speed, I suddenly got violent front wheel shake - it really felt like I was about to lose a wheel. I tried to drive through it, then bottled it and slowed right down until it stopped. I then proceeded home at about between 20-30 mph and did not get any further wobble... so I am heavily suspecting that it is the clearances on the front suspension bushes - they are out of tolerance and may be the cause...anyone have similar issues?
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #26 on: 16 July, 2022, 05:56:24 PM »

I have always put my "2 best wheels" on the front and as Andrea suggests, move them through 90° to get the best position. The issue is that it isn't the wheels that need to be balanced , but the wheel/drum assembly. You can see that the drums have balance weights on them as well

If you back off the adjusters and have nice bearings you can begin to play with this. If I spin my wheels they will rotate for 3 or 4 minutes and always stop in the same place. Then you can add weight to the top and gradually improve things.

To my mind, any wheel/drum imbalance exacerbates any wear issues in the sliding pillar bearings and causes wobble. it is time consuming to get it right - a bit like propshaft vibration on Aurelias/Flaminias I suspect

So the less wheel/drum wobble, the less the sliding pillar wobble

I may be talking utter rubbish ...... so please take with large pinch of salt
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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
davidwheeler
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« Reply #27 on: 16 July, 2022, 08:29:58 PM »

The other thing to consider perhaps is the horrible rubber bushes in the steering.    You will find my post in the technical thread about how to replace these with nice rose joints (with MUCH improved feel and precision in steering).
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
GG
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« Reply #28 on: 17 July, 2022, 10:24:08 AM »

There are a few ways (too many, sadly) that shimmy and wobble can come into the steering system, and be felt at the steering wheel. Including -

- wheel balance and trueness. Already discussed.
- tires - they aren't made quite the same as they were. It can sneak in here too.
- drum balance
- steering linkage, including tie rod ends
- wear in the sliding pillar assemblies
- alignment - sometimes adjusting the toe-in can cure this.

My experience is with Aurelias and Appias, and it may differ from Aprilias. But sometimes, its intermittent - shimmy shows feels terrible, and then goes away. Not sure why.

 
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B20 s.2, Appia C10, Flavia 2000
Kari
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« Reply #29 on: 17 July, 2022, 01:21:00 PM »

Please allow me to pass on my experiences of the Augusta front suspension which, I believe, is not far from the Augusta. I do agree with the previous inputs made by Geoff, Simon, and Andrew. I just want to go a bit more into details. I assume the sliding pillars themselves are sorted.

Wheels: We speak about balancing. IMHO that should be dynamic balancing. There will be balance weights on the outside AND the inside of the rim. Anything less is not enough. Most balancing machines accept the wheel by the centre hole on a tapered shaft. That was not accurate enough in the case of my Augusta. Fortunately, my friendly tyre dealer down the road has an older balancing machine which accepts the wheel by the 4 bolt holes as on the car. That made all the difference in my case. The drum balance is an issue, but less so, as the diameter is much less. However it's a good idea to mark the position of the wheel to the brake drum once the wheel is sorted. And every time when a tyre is taken from the rim for some reason, the balancing should be repeated. I do balance the rear wheels as well.

Steering linkage: I know I am on thin ice on that. The silent blocks should be in good order, not deformed or brittle. Little play between eccentric bolts and inner bush of the silent block is desirable. The eccentric bolts or nuts should only be tightened snug, not clamped. If clamped, a springy element (rubber) is introduced into the steering linkage, which can intensify a tendency for shimmy.

Toe-in: The book states a toe-in of 5/16 in. The book does not state where the measurement is made, normally at the inside of the rims. However, this not possible when the rims are distorted, even a little. A solution would be, to attach a length of wood to a flat part of the brake drums and take the data from there.

Steering: It's desirable to have as little play as possible in the steering box. Instructions to adjust can be found elsewhere in to forum.

Karl


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