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Author Topic: Aprilia Blocks  (Read 492 times)
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simonandjuliet
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« on: 26 June, 2022, 08:54:40 AM »

Does anyone know if all 97 engines are 1350cc or were some 1500 ??

I thought that 97 = 1350 and 99 were 1500 - are there any exceptions ?

Thanks
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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
davidwheeler
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« Reply #1 on: 28 June, 2022, 07:38:15 AM »

Mine is bored out to about 1460 - but that is no help to you!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #2 on: 28 June, 2022, 10:38:28 AM »

What size pistons ??
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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
GG
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« Reply #3 on: 28 June, 2022, 11:00:06 AM »

Its pretty clear the 97 is the earlier engine, the 99 is the later. Perhaps the question can be revised to: are there any 97 engines in the 438 cars, or 99 engines in the earlier 238 cars?


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Jay
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« Reply #4 on: 28 June, 2022, 12:31:03 PM »

I am sure that Ken Couzens has a 97 1350 block bored out and using 99 pistons, con-rods and crank, without any problems.   
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Julian Wood, Kingston, London
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #5 on: 28 June, 2022, 12:59:53 PM »

A little bit more "behind the question"

I am trying to help an Ardennes owner out with his engine. His very low mileage engine has a badly cracked block so he wanted to put his pistons AND liners in a good block, retaining as much of the original as possible (his engine has done a genuine 18,000 kms and everything else is like new)

The problem is that the holes in the block , once you have removed the liners, are very different, the Aprilia block is 2 mm bigger ..... both pistons (Aprilia and Ardennes) are 72mm

I suspect that the reason for this is that there was a foundry in France and maybe they just made Ardennes blocks a different size ??

Who knows !

I think that we have found a solution though
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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
GG
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« Reply #6 on: 28 June, 2022, 01:59:15 PM »

this is beginning to get interesting. First, a couple of questions about the Ardennes block:
- what year, or do we know which size it was originally?
- which holes are bigger?
- the 2mm change - is that an overall dimension? Curious.... are mounting locations the same?

One would think they used the same drawings for both blocks (Italy and France).

From Daniel Poittier come photos of "Lancia - Nos Usines", (c. 1935?). While not definitive, one is of a foundry - looks to be casting both alum and iron. In the foreground there is some sort of block possibly. And the second shot shows plenty of crankshafts needing machining, likely cast there too. So its seems possible castings were done in France then.

One then wonders if there were drawings too... and if any survived!



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B20 s.2, Appia C10, Flavia 2000
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #7 on: 28 June, 2022, 03:02:56 PM »

Thanks for the interest !

Re Ardennes block, I will be going back to see the owner in a couple of weeks and will take more photos and measurements etc but I don't have all the info to hand

And on a similar theme, I was chatting to James Parry about this as well and he was saying how different the engine castings were on Augusta/Belna cars. Different webbing, bell housing shape etc.

We know that there are lots of other differences between Aprilias and Ardennes - door handles, gutter profiles, lights, bumpers etc etc so we shouldn't be too surprised and as Norman Stewart once said:

"There is no such thing a standard Lancia"
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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #8 on: 30 June, 2022, 04:25:15 PM »

Further to this, I have a very early block (if numbers are to be believed !) number 259 that has no webs on the outside of the block. A later block , number 10780 does have them, so there were definitely different castings

If I have a few minutes one day, I will measure the bottom of the sleeves to see if they are different

So question is whether the Ardennes engine is the same as the early, non-web , Aprilia Huh?

PS Both blocks had significant corrosion in the back corner - probably worth checking yours next time the head is off !


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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
davidwheeler
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« Reply #9 on: 04 July, 2022, 04:38:42 PM »

What size pistons ??
As I recall, standard size series II high compression.   Cannot remember the exact figure but it is in the Aprilia book of course.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #10 on: 16 July, 2022, 03:54:42 PM »

Photos of the Ardennes block - it is different again - the block is smoother !

Stamping is different as well , they are marked as " F97 " then the engine number. Plus it looks as if the block/gearbox studs are split-pinned, I'd hate to fit those with the engine/box in place !

The "hole" for the cylindre sleeve is 82mm


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Amilcar CGS, Aprilia Cabrio, S2Aprilia, Ardea camioncino, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, R60 Tractor, R60 S, Toselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan, Ypsilon
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