Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
12 December, 2019, 09:42:15 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Petition against fuel prices  (Read 3188 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Neil Lewis
Guest
« Reply #15 on: 30 May, 2008, 10:27:24 PM »

I feel like a rant coming on...

In this situation all the talk about climate change is simply irrelevant.

I watched Loenardo di Caprio's film on the telly a week ago and it mentioned population expansion, ie, that it had doubled in the last 8 years.  That's really horrifying.  And where is all that expansion happening; in the developing parts of the world.  So where is the demand for all the fuel; in the developing world too!  The people of the developing nations haven't caught up with the fact that, with modern medicine, there isn't the same child mortality that they used to have.  So they're still having dozens of kids (who now live) and then we make it worse by bailing them out when they get into trouble.  That also goes for the fastest growing part of our population.  Until ten years ago Britain had a fairly stable population but now it's expanding due to all the immigrants having kids.

Now we've set all that in motion there's no going back.  That includes the British government, back in the sixties, encouraging everyone to own cars by scrapping the railways and building lots of fabulous new roads.  So it's no good blaming the current government, this problem goes back decades.  We've just got to live with it.

It's also our fault because we all want to buy cheap stuff.  I bought some plumbing stop valves the other day.  They were beautifully made from about eight components, some cast and some pressed, and all machined in some way then hand finished to assemble the bits into the finished valve.  And the whole lot cost 4.50 and was "fabrique en chine" as the label said.  The only way they can do that is by having a large population which they pay a pittance.

Rant over, but I'm going to go on using fuel (at 23MPG in my integrale).  If I don't use the fuel someone else will Embarrassed
Logged
fensaddler
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1082



« Reply #16 on: 31 May, 2008, 09:03:31 AM »

Neil - Be careful what you pick up from Leonardo di Caprio  Shocked - the population of the world has not doubled in the last ten years (which is what I think you were saying - please forgive me if I have misinterpreted Embarrassed), though it is still growing fast.

I'd not disagree that much of this problem stems from the fact that there are more and more of us (homo sapiens) and we want more and more stuff, cheaper and cheaper, and the only way we have so far found to do all that is burn more and more oil.  Where I split from your argument is splitting the world into them over there causing the problem, and us here not causing the problem - we're all causing a problem, just in different ways.

Per capita, its us in the richer countries using up most of the resources (the US uses, I think, about 25% of the global oil production), and all the multitudes elsewhere are using far less per capita (about a ratio of 10:1).  Many of them are poor, and have cultures of large families as a social insurance policy against high infant mortality and poverty in old age.  Cultures move the slowest in response to change, so in many cases fertility rates lag improvements in healthcare and wealth by generations - and some cultures appear pretty resistant to adaptation Roll Eyes. Perversely, the best way to reduce fertility is to increase wealth and social support - but the only way we know how to do that right now is burn more oil...  And of course, as wealth increases in the developing world, the people there quite understandably want all the stuff we've got, including cars.  Its not a very good model we've built really...and yes, we made a lot of damn silly transport decisions thirty and forty years ago (and more recently - Mme Thatcher's 'great car economy' anyone?) which have made our own position far less flexible.

So yes, population growth is a problem, and wealth distribution is a problem, since our global economy needs to keep a lot of people poor in order to provide cheap labour to provide cheap goods and commodities - thus preventing them being able to adapt to lower fertility because they are sure of their own future security in old age.

Brian -  this debate could clearly run and run between us!  Nigel Lawson is one of the city types who have been the cause of your problems - who is paying him now?  And Patrick Moore has always been a little on the 'eccentric' side...  That said, because global climate is such a complex system to understand, there is always some doubt about causality.  I'm not one to accept the fashionable view of the world - indeed on most things I tend to think rather against the flow - and I would rather find reasons to believe that global warming was not happening, or not caused by human activity, and that oil was not running out - but everything I see and read suggests otherwise.  I don't think we'll agree on this one though Undecided.

Stuart - fair point, that seems an idea I would give consideration.  However, in the long run, even under that model, fuel needs to get more expensive in real terms over time to wean us all off the stuff and find viable alternatives (not least because even if it doesn't run out as quick as we think, most of the oil is in places where people don't like us, and our energy security is heavily compromised - you know, because you've been personally caught up in a war about oil).  We've plenty of renewable options to 'grow our own' energy if we were but to put our minds to it, and in the interim, we also have your own industry to help out.

Anyway enough from me for now, I've got to go and burn some oil and recce the route for the Giro di Salopia...
Logged

Chris Owen
13245
1987 Delta 1.3LX
2012 Skoda Yeti 112TSi 4WD
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 5736



« Reply #17 on: 31 May, 2008, 11:44:52 AM »

Hi Chris,
Have a good day on your recce, let's all agree to disagree otherwise we'll be back where we were a year or so again, anyway life's too short for friends to fall out, & if the latest statistics are anything to go by I've only got another 5 years before reaching the average popping off point for down here, just pinning my hope on the fact that my Mum is still with us at 93 & that I'll beat the average Grin

Brian
8227 Cool
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Philm
Guest
« Reply #18 on: 31 May, 2008, 08:30:32 PM »

For those we think that it is just a case of either pumping more, finding more, getting the harder to get, turning coal or shale to oil and so forth have a look at; www.theoildrum.com some of the articles will make you reconsider.
Logged
Scarpia
Lapsed
Rebel Poster
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 723



« Reply #19 on: 01 June, 2008, 09:11:17 AM »

Its a universal constant that however good relationships are , even amongst lifelong friends, Politics can cause dispute and arguement more than any other single topic.Our political beliefs are often so fundamental to our view of the world that challenging them is percieved as attack often on our upbringing and even sense of right and wrong. People can call me a scoundral or anything else they wish, but challenging my politics is an invitation to a good row.

I think we better keep politics of the agenda here. Anyway, if we have descended to quoting that well known intellectual, "Leonardo di Caprio" then i fear we are getting pretty desperate.(didn't he go down with the Titanic?)
« Last Edit: 01 June, 2008, 01:21:00 PM by Scarpia » Logged
fensaddler
Lapsed
Permanent resident
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1082



« Reply #20 on: 01 June, 2008, 12:41:47 PM »

I'll put it on the record that I have no intention of falling out with anyone... Smiley
Logged

Chris Owen
13245
1987 Delta 1.3LX
2012 Skoda Yeti 112TSi 4WD
inthedark
Guest
« Reply #21 on: 01 June, 2008, 04:43:05 PM »

Scarpia  --- You're a scoundrel

Chris     --- I'll try harder


'the colonel'

Logged
Scarpia
Lapsed
Rebel Poster
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 723



« Reply #22 on: 02 June, 2008, 05:16:06 PM »

I'll take it as a compliment  as the sort of clubs I wish to be associated with regard this as a prerequisite for membership (you Bounder).

Logged
inthedark
Guest
« Reply #23 on: 02 June, 2008, 06:17:28 PM »

Agreed, and proud of it.

Oh and...... 600
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2018 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines