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Author Topic: S3 master cylinder  (Read 4529 times)
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ian
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« on: 05 May, 2008, 10:39:39 AM »

Attempting to refurbish master cylinder, have concise manual etc. any extra advice?
how many seals should there be in a repair kit,? :(some seem to be missing from mine!
Also, does any one know the spanner size for the rear caliper to hub bolts, i need to dismantle and refurbish the calipers as well, so any help or parts would be welcome. thanks in advance Smiley 
« Last Edit: 05 May, 2008, 06:23:13 PM by ian » Logged
ian
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« Reply #1 on: 05 May, 2008, 06:25:37 PM »

Also, does any one know the spanner size for the rear caliper to hub bolts, i need to dismantle and refurbish the calipers as well, so any help or parts would be welcome. thanks in advance Smiley
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Philm
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« Reply #2 on: 05 May, 2008, 07:35:12 PM »

Bleeding can be tricky, it is best fill the cylinder with fluid off car completely, get all the air out then fit it. It is a bit messy but by covering everything up you should be ok. I believe the rear caliper bolts are 17mm A/F.
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Neil Lewis
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« Reply #3 on: 06 May, 2008, 10:25:07 PM »

When you put the calipers back on, remember to use the tab washers.  I didn't and I had a caliper come off on the M3... not good!

Neil
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ian
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« Reply #4 on: 06 May, 2008, 11:01:08 PM »

Successfully rebuilt the master cylinder, but on removing it from the servo, I found the servo full of brake fluid! Wondered where it was all disappearing to? Can I clean up and re-use the servo or will iIhave to replace?
On to the rear calipers. Looks likely that I will have to find some spares, if there are any out there could you let me know? I'm keen to get her back on the road within the next month (famous last words) Grin
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rogerelias
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« Reply #5 on: 07 May, 2008, 11:34:23 AM »

Ian. If it helps , i have used the rear calipers off  a volvo 240 series. make sure that they are Girling units, i seem to remember that i had to open up the mounting holes slightly, the same pads should fit fine. good luck.
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nistri
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« Reply #6 on: 07 May, 2008, 12:10:46 PM »

If the servo was full of brake fluid, it means that the master cylinder seals were shot. It is difficult to predict if the servo is now damaged. After taking the servo off the car, remove its content of old brake fluid and wash it extensively with alcohol. Let it dry out. Push the long rod at the back several times to expell any fluid and check that the mechanism moves correctly. Only after refitting it to the car, you will be able to tell if it is OK. Overhauling the servo is a difficult job and should be done by a specialist brake workshop (it is not too difficult to open it but it is difficult to reseal it again).  Good luck.
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Andrea Nistri

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Philm
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« Reply #7 on: 07 May, 2008, 08:42:07 PM »

I have a pair of rear calipers that need overhauling if you are interested
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Neil Lewis
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« Reply #8 on: 07 May, 2008, 10:23:22 PM »

If the servo was full of brake fluid, it means that the master cylinder seals were shot.

I had this on my Series 3.  It would belch out white smoke whenever I performed a dramatic manouvre as the brake fluid was sucked up the servo hose into the inlet manifold.  Amazingly the brakes still worked fine.  When I took the master cylinder off, the brake fluid was lapping the hole in the servo where the cylinder was bolted on so it must have building up over a long period of time.  Fortunately I had a new servo to replace it and a set of cylinder seals.  The whole lot was quite easy to change in about half a day.  Not much help to you though.

When rebuilding the cylinder make sure you put the two springs back in correctly.  There's one which is much stiffer than the other (can't remember which one).  Careful segregation of the parts as you remove them should make putting them back together straight-forward.

As for rear calipers, I believe that they are the same as those fitted to the front of Mark 1 Escorts; the pads are certainly the same.  It always amused me that the Fulvia had brakes on the back which were expected to stop the weight of an Escort when fitted on the front axle.  By the way, for autotesting (unashamed plug for the Lancia Driving Tests), the balance valve on the rear axle could be adjusted to make the back lock up when the footbrake was applied hard and that saved using the handbrake for "handbrake" turns.

Neil
« Last Edit: 07 May, 2008, 10:27:05 PM by Neil Lewis » Logged
ian
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« Reply #9 on: 07 May, 2008, 11:32:47 PM »

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions, keep them coming!
May well try the Escort and Volvo thing.
Phil, where abouts are you located? I also may be interested in your spares.
Neil. The belching thing happened to me a few years back. I could never find the reason! It used to happen when I was taking long a left hand bend at speed on a slip road, before entering a particular duel carriage way, a quick glance in the mirror showed the smoke, but  she never used any oil, sounded fine and never smoked at any other time. The reason I,m looking at the braking system now, is that I have had total brake failure twice...once on the way back from the m.o.t station!
The thing is, this has probably been going on for at least a couple of years and by the amount of fluid in the servo, probably more, possibly with the previous owner I,m aware of how much damage the fluid will do to paintwork, but what about the internals to the servo? I will strip it down at the weekend and have a gander. Can you still buy alcohol at the chemist? Used to use it to clean up my vinyl records,,..remember them?
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Scarpia
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« Reply #10 on: 08 May, 2008, 06:07:58 PM »

make sure you watch for the shim washers that fall out from between the calipers and the mounting points when you remove the bolts.They are varying thicknesses and need to be put back correctly to line up the calipers with the discs properly.(or was that just on my car.. Roll Eyes..).
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ian
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« Reply #11 on: 17 May, 2008, 06:05:26 PM »

According to my local motor factors, I won't be able to get hold of any rear caliper refurb kits, heath and safety and all that.
My choices seem to be to either, buy new refurbished calipers from specialist companys or find some old/new stock kits from someone.
Any Ideas.   
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Scarpia
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« Reply #12 on: 18 May, 2008, 08:04:47 AM »

What do you need to do to the calipers.What nonsense over H&S.Mostly its just a case of pushing (with air) the pistons out cleaning up and replacing the seals.That's a fairly routine (but messy) job for a car that has  stood for a while.Don't attempt to split the caliper, its not needed.I had done this job a few times in the past and parts are (were )readily available and not expensive.
having said that I just had all my calipers completely refurbished in the spring due to lack of time by a local brake specialist to be sure everything is fully ok and they are now in perfect condition.(Only thing I wouldn't have chosen is the bronze paint but you don't really see it on the car.) 


* calipers.jpg (172.21 KB, 748x561 - viewed 576 times.)
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fay66
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« Reply #13 on: 18 May, 2008, 08:18:26 AM »

I've got a seal kit that I carry in my spares box that came from Omicron a couple of years ago, so I would have thought that one of our usual sources of spares should be able to supply, they also crop up on ebay from time to time but don't just look in Europe or the UK, you need to look under Worldwide, for some strange reason a lot of the items from Germany & Holland don't appear in the Europe listings Huh?

Brian 8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
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fay66
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« Reply #14 on: 18 May, 2008, 08:39:35 AM »

Complete set on sale at Ebay Italy offered at 55 currently no bids, item number 140233553947   same seller as air filter.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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