Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
11 April, 2021, 04:40:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Need to contact the Forum Administrator? e-mail forum.admin@lanciamc.co.uk, for Database Administrator e-mail database.admin@lanciamc.co.uk      -      Copy deadline for Viva Lancia is 12th of each month.      -      For Events e-mail events@lanciamc.co.uk      -      To Join the club go to http://www.lanciamc.co.uk/join.htm
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Importing a car - post Brexit  (Read 771 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 2285



« on: 21 March, 2021, 01:21:31 PM »

I have just imported a UK car into France for the first time since Brexit. I have done several before so have a direct comparison. Over the years there has been quite a lot of discussion about importing/exporting cars from Italy/France/Germany etc so I thought I'd share a "real-world" experience with real figures - not a Lancia this time though !

I will try and be objective, but if you voted "Leave" you may wish to stop reading now !

Pre-Brexit:

No paperwork, just transportation costs

Total 650 plus vat = 780
Pick up & delivery less than a week

Post-Brexit:

UK paperwork ( uk customs agent required) 412
This includes a T1 or transit form that may not be necessary if you collect the car from the port (saves 150)

Transport - 1050 - if you can find someone. My previous company don't cover EU anymore. Many others said "No" - too complicated

French import paperwork

Customs Agent: 460 Euros

Duties
For an "Historic vehicle" ie over 30yrs old (for France) = 5.5%
So for a nice Fulvia (15k) you pay 1024 Euros or 883 (car+transport, convert to Euros)

Total = 2704

Difference Pre/post Brexit = + 1924
Time taken : 3 plus weeks, with an unbelievable amount of paperwork and phone calls

For vehicles over 30 years old , this may make sense for more valuable cars, but for cheaper or newer cars (30% duties) it probably doesn't. I don't know how car dealers are getting around this, but for most of us it represents a significant change


* IMG_5942.jpeg (235.91 KB, 960x1280 - viewed 5 times.)
Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
Kevinlincs
Rebel Poster
*
Posts: 974


« Reply #1 on: 21 March, 2021, 06:40:22 PM »

A really interesting comparison, vastly more complicated and the costs near tripled.
You get the feeling that if the Politicians had pointed out all these issues to the common man instead of spending months, no years just talking twaddle then the Brexit result would have been overwhelming in the "no thanks" camp.
Call me nave for not seeing these issues coming but all we ever heard was how it would be great and the country would be swimming in money for the hospitals etc when we stop paying millions every day to Brussels...
Logged
neil-yaj396
Committee
Permanent resident
*****
Posts: 1070



« Reply #2 on: 22 March, 2021, 08:26:08 AM »

Simon

When you say 'duties' are these car tax type duties, rather than customs duties, that the French apply to non EU cars? We are meant to have a free trade deal with the EU are we not?

Not sure how this will end up....

Neil
Logged

1979 1300 Beta Coupe, 2014 Ypsilon 1.2 S Series Momo
CesareFerrari
Member
**
Posts: 17


« Reply #3 on: 22 March, 2021, 11:14:26 AM »

On 29th March 2021, one week from now, we shall reach the fourth anniversary of the United Kingdom's notification under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union of its departure. The extended transition period for new trading and other arrangements, which ended at the end of 2020, has been almost entirely wasted, and egregiously so in the period since the election in December 2019 of the present government on a promise to "get Brexit done". The last year of transition was spent instead on arid lectures on "sovereignty", implicitly telling leaders such as the President of France or the Chancellor of Germany that they no longer lead sovereign nations. It is easier than the hard work of trade negotiation.
Surely it must be possible for UK authorities and the European Commission to agree on a basic set of administrative requirements for the private import and export of motorcars, using downloadable forms, minimising the number of additional documents required, and avoiding the need to employ an agent at either end. This is an important trade, and I would have thought this would be worthwhile policy project for the Departments for Transport and International Trade.
Logged
frankxhv773t
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1958



« Reply #4 on: 22 March, 2021, 12:43:17 PM »

One fundamental problem I believe is that our politicians are electioneering politicians not governing politicians. Their stock in trade is creating perceptions not achieving practical results. Many of our problems today flow from the fact that the accommodations that are needed to make things work post Brexit fundamentally compromise the perception the politicians seek to maintain.

Logged
simonandjuliet
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 2285



« Reply #5 on: 22 March, 2021, 01:00:56 PM »

Hi Neil
The "duties" for an old car (30 plus years) are a combined import duty/VAT rate agreed for this type of import from any non EU country. A friend bringing a Mustang from the States paid the same level

The code used for my car was A505 - B00

A newer car is 20% VAT (tva) plus 10% import duties - I think that I am correct, but without looking not 100% sure

The "free-trade" deal is a bit of  joke , I am being charged import duties in both directions for any and all parts. It is clearly marked as import duties on the delivery notes - usually with an additional handling charge

I think that there are differing duties on different imports, I tried to work out the different codes for both UK and France, but it is impossible for most of us

Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
bobhenry999
Megaposter
*
Posts: 298


« Reply #6 on: 22 March, 2021, 04:09:35 PM »

If these issues had been pointed out before the vote and we had stayed in the EU, we would be in the same mess that the rest of Europe is in regarding COVID vaccination, so I for one can accept an increase in import charges as it seems a small price to pay under current circumstances.
Logged

Flavia 815 Vignale
Flavia 819 Milleotto
Flavia 815 Coupe Inezione
2000HF x2
2000 Coupe
2000 Sedan x3
Current 815 Coupe Variante 1005
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5944



« Reply #7 on: 22 March, 2021, 04:24:48 PM »

If these issues had been pointed out before the vote and we had stayed in the EU, we would be in the same mess that the rest of Europe is in regarding COVID vaccination, so I for one can accept an increase in import charges as it seems a small price to pay under current circumstances.

Same here Bob, as for our Politicians, (damn them all to hell!) being election politicians, so do you think Macron and Merkle are not?.
Stop blaming Bexit for everything, the EU ,are certainly not coming up smelling of roses either.
Anyway Brexit is done, stop fighting old battles and get on and help.
Brian
8227 Cool
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
peteracs
Administrator
Rebel Poster
*****
Posts: 777



« Reply #8 on: 22 March, 2021, 05:42:01 PM »

In a few years the new norm will become just the norm and we will accept that is how it is and folk will learn how best to get along with it.

I guess my question is on parts is there or should there actually be a duty charged as well as VAT which will be charged according to the rules laid out in a previous thread?

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
mikeC
Megaposter
*
Posts: 297



« Reply #9 on: 22 March, 2021, 07:53:56 PM »

I have imported stuff, including complete cars, from the USA over the years without the apparent problems people are currently experiencing with the EU. I have never 'employed' an agent at either end and have never faced hundreds of pounds in charges on any of my transactions.
Logged

1953 Lancia Appia Series 1
1931 Austin Seven deluxe saloon
1914 Saxon Model A roadster


(previously owned Lancias: 1958 Appia Pininfarina coupe, 1987 Delta LX, 1986 Delta cabriolet, 1991 Dedra 1.8, 1993 Dedra 1.6)
neil-yaj396
Committee
Permanent resident
*****
Posts: 1070



« Reply #10 on: 23 March, 2021, 08:47:52 AM »

Hi Neil
The "duties" for an old car (30 plus years) are a combined import duty/VAT rate agreed for this type of import from any non EU country. A friend bringing a Mustang from the States paid the same level

The code used for my car was A505 - B00

A newer car is 20% VAT (tva) plus 10% import duties - I think that I am correct, but without looking not 100% sure

The "free-trade" deal is a bit of  joke , I am being charged import duties in both directions for any and all parts. It is clearly marked as import duties on the delivery notes - usually with an additional handling charge

I think that there are differing duties on different imports, I tried to work out the different codes for both UK and France, but it is impossible for most of us



Simon, sorry, this is plain wrong. The UK have a free trade deal with the EU, the USA do not. You are being wrongly charged import duty unless the car came from another country via the UK to you. I suspect French Customs are playing games as they always said they would if the UK left the EU. You should ask for the import duty to be refunded. Neil
Logged

1979 1300 Beta Coupe, 2014 Ypsilon 1.2 S Series Momo
lancialulu
Press Officer
Permanent resident
*****
Posts: 4167



« Reply #11 on: 23 March, 2021, 12:23:39 PM »

Assuming all EU countries behave the same (we have just seen with Simon maybe not...) this Irish Government website is useful as its in English!!

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20210323&Area=GB&MeasType=&StartPub=&EndPub=&MeasText=&GoodsText=&op=&Taric=8703409090&search_text=goods&textSearch=&LangDescr=en&OrderNum=&Regulation=&measStartDat=&measEndDat=

From a limited interrogation UK duty seems to be 0%
Logged

Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
GerardJPC
Senior Member
*****
Posts: 168



« Reply #12 on: 23 March, 2021, 06:16:59 PM »

I have read the UK-EU agreement.  You may or may not be surprised to learn that Boris Johnson was untruthful in the way that he described it to the UK public.  If you want to know which side won the negotiation, the clue is  - the side with the pretty stars on its flag won.

Northern Ireland is still to a large extent in the EU, legally speaking.  There is an invisible border in the Irish Sea, and the UK more widely remains subject to various degrees of EU regulatory compliance.  A cottage industry may emerge dealing with endless inter-Governmental arbitrations about the agreement.   The agreement does not deal with lots of nitty gritty details. 

Thus added costs and added complexity are to be expected.   It remains to be seen whether the very significant fall in freight movements between the UK and the EU since 1/1/21 have been caused by C19 and/or businesses doing precautionary stockpiling pre 1/1/21, or whether this indicates a lasting trend.       
Logged

1962 Appia Berlina, 1974 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe FOR SALE

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, 1981 Lotus Eclat S2, 1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza, 1982 Moto Morini 350 S, 1983 Land Rover SIII 88
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5944



« Reply #13 on: 24 March, 2021, 12:18:13 PM »

I see enough about politics re Bexit on other sites, can we please keep it off of here rather than pointing fingers  Angry
Brian
8227
Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
frankxhv773t
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1958



« Reply #14 on: 24 March, 2021, 04:18:38 PM »

Well said Brian. I apologise for adding to the distraction.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2021 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 20 queries.