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Author Topic: Dedra turbo H630 XGN  (Read 61186 times)
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #240 on: 20 February, 2023, 02:09:39 PM »

Actually I think the Dedra manual I am working from may be one of Brian's. Frustratingly it has a diagnostic section for the Bosch ABS system but the schematic showing the layout of components is a repeat of the preceding Girling schematic showing the control unit under the back seat, item 197, and listed specifically as Girling. The table of units at the front of the section lists an item 204 "Antiskid electronic control unit" which appears on the Bosch wiring diagram but not on the schematic of location of units within the body.

Have you got the diagnostic routines for the Bosch system or would you like me to try and copy them for you?
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Kevinlincs
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« Reply #241 on: 20 February, 2023, 07:30:36 PM »

Yes, I have the diagnostic routine for thew Bosch system, that was what suggested it should be under the back seat.
I can only assume it's somewhere behind the dash or on the tunnel, only so many places it can be!  Huh?
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Flavia 815 coupe
Dedra turbo
Delta integrale
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #242 on: 21 February, 2023, 09:05:54 AM »

It's seriously unhelpful isn't it. I've posted a query on the Thema Dedra facebook page. I'm suffering similarly with a 1995 LHD Dedra 16v for which no English language manual seems to exist and various electrical components are different from 8v models.
« Last Edit: 21 February, 2023, 09:11:07 AM by frankxhv773t » Logged
Kevinlincs
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« Reply #243 on: 21 February, 2023, 07:14:08 PM »

Thanks Frank, very much appreciated.
I'd guess that the later Dedra would be the same as the Delta Mk3, but that probably doesn't help with an English language edition!
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Flavia 815 coupe
Dedra turbo
Delta integrale
lancialulu
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« Reply #244 on: 22 February, 2023, 08:03:42 AM »

Can you use EPer to determine if a part is used on another model - say Fiat etc
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21.  12v
rikardo
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« Reply #245 on: 22 February, 2023, 02:15:40 PM »

Sorry I've not responded until now to this. Brian had to give me a nudge!

I have an Italian language Dedra integrale Workshop Manual that I purchased from Brian several years ago for my newly purchased at-the-time Dedra integrale (from Chris Hopkins).

There is a separate "Sezione 33" for "Freni Dispositivo antibloccaggio ruote" (ABS) as a supplement to the main "Sezione 33", but it also shows the "Centralina Elettronica" as located under the rear seat and then under a metal bracket/cover, with the longitudinal and transverse sensors alongside, although exactly where I'm not sure without removing the rear seat, the "context" of the photos isn't clear. However, I should point out that this was printed in "Febbraio 1991", so on a later car like my Dedra integrale from December 1993, it may no longer hold true. I haven't removed the rear seat to have a look, theres been no need. And, of course, there's an electronic on/off "Rear Diff Lock" to consider on my car and that may also have a bearing on the ABS ECU location (I think we all know what we're talking about now, don't we Grin).
I will gladly send images of the relevant pages from the Manual via email, the resolution will likely be better, let me know. Or I could try on here, but whether that will work successfully and legibly, I don't know!
« Last Edit: 22 February, 2023, 04:13:20 PM by rikardo » Logged

1992 Delta HF integrale
1993 Dedra integrale
and several Alfas
Kevinlincs
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« Reply #246 on: 22 February, 2023, 08:18:25 PM »

I have schematic/wiring diagrams from the Dedra workshop manual, from the factory instruction on fault finding using the PR01 FIAT/Lancia tester which suggests the ECU being under the rear seat. It's not, I have no seats at all in at the moment so it'd be easy to spot!
There is a couple of smaller control units there, window and central locking control I think, but nothing with a big enough loom/connector or marked Bosch to be the ABS unit.
The engine ECU is in the passenger footwell against the bulkhead, Weber IAW is a familiar sight.

The only place I haven't had apart is the dashboard and the central console that sits between the front seats. It has to be somewhere!
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Kevinlincs
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« Reply #247 on: 23 February, 2023, 09:16:25 PM »

Up at the unit this afternoon mostly working on the Flaminia engine, but managed to get a look at the Dedra.
There is no ECU under the rear seat, or anywhere near there.
I traced the wires back from each rear wheel speed sensor and they are merely taped together at the NS and carry on down the passenger side sill edge where they come up from the front passenger side footwell and disappear up the bulkhead behind the glovebox, near the heater fan motor.
I removed the glovebox but hoped that would reveal the bulkhead, but there's a large portion of dash still there. As there are no seats the centre console came out easy, so I know it's not under there now.
When I get another chance I'll take the centre piece where the radio and heater controls are, maybe it's under there!
If I keep following the wires it has to show up somewhere, just hope I don't have to take the dashboard out to find it!
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lancialulu
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« Reply #248 on: 24 February, 2023, 09:18:40 AM »

eper has this schematic. As there is a shield #14 it could be in the engine bay??


* dedra eper abs .jpg (206.41 KB, 1237x749 - viewed 43 times.)
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21.  12v
fay66
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« Reply #249 on: 24 February, 2023, 11:21:04 AM »

eper has this schematic. As there is a shield #14 it could be in the engine bay??
14 is the access panel to 13,  and is at the base of the drivers back seat, which appears to wrong according to what has already been said.
All my Dedras had most of the electric control units under the drivers side under the back seat, one had another cover over a unit, 15 , which I think is the ABS unit., but this panel has to be removed to get at the unit.
the access panel 14 is to this unit without removing 15.
The main exception which was the 'Brains'behind the panel on passenger side footwell on Rhd cars.
Besides engine related relays łnder the bonnet on the bulkhead.
I used to have a separate supplement that covered ABS, and as a H registered  car it should be in there, unless that is wrong as well.
My first Dedra was 1990 H registered, fitted with the 4 channel ABS.
Brian
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« Last Edit: 24 February, 2023, 11:25:54 AM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Kevinlincs
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« Reply #250 on: 24 February, 2023, 08:15:24 PM »

That's an interesting view Tim, Im inclined to think that if it is laid out accurately in that diagram then maybe it points towards the ecu being central insid ethe car, equidistant from the brake discs. Maybe the cover that is listed is to protect it inside the car, as in unde rone of the front seats? They are on risers after all.
Although I've said there are no seats in, and there aren't but I've never had the carpet fully out just peeled back the edge when doing the welding, maybe the loom branches off to the ecu and the pair of sensor wires I traced at the front footwell are from the front sensors coming back...that kind of makes sense.
As I want to take the carpet fully out for cleaning anyway then I say that's my next move rather than attacking the dashboard, it did make me think I was barking up the wrong tree with it being behind the dash, no logic in hiding it away.

With regard to it being in the engine bay, I also considered it may be hidden behind that relay panel besides the power steering bottle.


It's an odd one Brian isn't it, as you say all the literature points towards it being in the space under the back seat, but no. There are 3 other smaller units there but no Bosch ABS unit and the rear sensor wires just come in the car then go straight to the N/S inner sill before going forward.

Looking at the pic Tim has posted I'm inclined to think that maybe, just maybe it's inside the car somewhere. Carpet out is the next logical step, might try and get up this weekend for a look, bugging me that I can't find it!

Really, really appreciate the time and effort being spent on trying to help me guys, I'd be really struggling without the help.
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Kevinlincs
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« Reply #251 on: 23 April, 2023, 07:59:08 PM »

Update on the Dedra.
The ABS issue has been solved, not by me, I had to concede defeat and get a professional electrician in. Sometimes you just have to accept these things are beyond you. No idea what the fault was so don't ask, purposely told him to just fix it however he could and not tell me what was wrong so I couldn't kick myself if it was a simple fix!

I had a slight oil leak from the gearbox to sort, had been leaving the odd spot of oil and no matter how long I hoped it would fix itself it refused to!
A strategic placing of fresh carboard revealed that the N/S driveshaft seal at the differential was leaking, at least a simple fix and not a cracked housing! This weekend I removed the driveshaft, shaft coupling from the gearbox and fitted a new seal. The old one was very worn, hardly gripped the ouput shaft at all. So at least that confirmed the source. Needed about 1/2L to get back to the MAX mark so had been leaking more than I thought.

Next weekend I will finally get to fit the retrimmed seats.
A few little jobs to attend to then ready for the MoT at last.

Looking good now that a trip to AGM Sunday is well and truly on the cards  Cool
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Flavia 815 coupe
Dedra turbo
Delta integrale
fay66
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« Reply #252 on: 24 April, 2023, 09:57:28 AM »

Kevin, was the ecu under the back seat as I suggested, if not ,where was it located ?
Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Kevinlincs
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« Reply #253 on: 24 April, 2023, 07:16:26 PM »

No ECU under the back seat Brian, all my literature also suggested it should be but nothing there for the ABS, rear sensor wires just run across the floor then forward down the passenger side floor edge. I also had a look up behind the dash as it was suggested it may be up there but even using my boroscope nothing could be found, just the wires going through the bulkhead. I can only assume, as also had been suggested that the ECU is part of the control unit/pump that sits in the engine bay. There certainly wasn't anything that the PR01 unit that I bought could be plugged into, so that was a wasted purchase!

I've been a bit distracted of late with the Flaminia and an Alfa GTV  so it's good to be back on the Dedra, quite excited that it's nearing completion. Looking forward to driving it at last.  Cool
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Delta integrale
fay66
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« Reply #254 on: 25 April, 2023, 11:18:01 AM »

How strange, every Dedra including turbos had the ecu under the back seat and the eper and manuals show it there?
Looking to seeing it finished, are you bring the Dedra to the AGM?

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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