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Author Topic: Lancia 1Z armoured car chassis for sale  (Read 864 times)
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frankxhv773t
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« on: 03 June, 2020, 10:00:15 AM »

Fascinatingly https://www.hcservices.be have the chassis of a WW1 Lancia armoured car for sale. Two examples were previously known to survive but this is the remains of a pair given to the Czech Italian Legion at the end of WW1 which served in the Czech army before being dismantled in the 1930s. The chassis were used as technical training aids and one was known to still be in existence in 1939. The vendors speculate it is one of only 6 of this chassis built but that has to be wrong. Best sources suggest 25 were built on the original early pattern chassis.

AT 30,000 euros it isn't cheap, but what price unobtanium?
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GG
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored


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« Reply #1 on: 03 June, 2020, 10:56:46 AM »

Interesting...you can go get the body too:
http://blog.lanciainfo.com/?p=2674
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #2 on: 05 June, 2020, 07:14:41 PM »

My reading of the advert is that the body is not available. As the bodies were dismantled in 1935 and were particularly high grade steel I suspect they would have been recycled during WW".
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GG
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« Reply #3 on: 05 June, 2020, 09:00:52 PM »

I spoke with the seller last year, and he sent me pics of a body he had found. Remarkably it was   on a military base in Afghanistan - as shown in the blog posting. Now, getting it off the base is one heck of a challenge....
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #4 on: 06 June, 2020, 11:24:10 AM »

Only one Lancia armoured car is known to have gone to Afghanistan, gifted to the king of Afghanistan in 1928. It was recovered from Camp Warehouse quite a number of years ago and is now in the military museum in Dresden. It is a 1918 model 1ZM in substantially complete condition which would not be the correct body for a the Czech armoured car. It would be fascinating to know how another 1Z or it's body ended up in Afghanistan.
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Dilambdaman
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« Reply #5 on: 06 June, 2020, 04:30:44 PM »

Deat cert winner of the Odd Ball Trophy at the AGM Concours! Shocked

Robin.
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GG
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored


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« Reply #6 on: 06 June, 2020, 09:17:26 PM »

Frank - great info. Is your third shot of the Warehouse vehicle, since moved and if. Understand you correctly, restored? Thatís the same shot as I was told is in Afghanistan.

It seems that the info of the Afghanistan one is old news, and not currently valid. Is that how you see it too?
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
Dikappa
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« Reply #7 on: 07 June, 2020, 07:05:54 AM »

It's around my corner (some 10 km's away), and I will go see it shortly.
However it is more a collection of parts, and will need a hugh amount of items made or sourced before any serious restoration can be attempted.  I think the asking price is wishfull thinking.
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peteracs
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« Reply #8 on: 07 June, 2020, 07:54:11 AM »

No photo of the complete chassis just the part with the tipo number, wonder why?

Peter
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Dikappa
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« Reply #9 on: 07 June, 2020, 08:40:58 AM »

some pictures I received.
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #10 on: 07 June, 2020, 09:22:22 AM »

Yes Gordon, it was recovered in 2007 to the Dresden museum. I don't think it has been restored, though it is substantially complete. My picture of it inside a building I take to be its' present condition on display.

The Czech chassis for sale in Belgium is possibly what Ansaldo began with before constructing the armoured car which, history aside, is little more than a 1Z military truck chassis. Ansaldo are said to have strengthened the truck chassis to carry the extra weight of the armour.

As to "old news" I think it's a case of not believing everything a used car salesman tells you. Their speculation that it is one of only 6 chassis is, to me, wishful thinking as all 20 of the first series were on this chassis as well as the first part of the second series production. 
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Roland
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« Reply #11 on: 06 July, 2020, 03:16:24 PM »

Interesting BUT in these photos, the Autoblinda Italian built armoured cars, still clad with the remains of armour, the is engine clearly visible and it can be seen to be a fixed head (Head and block cast as one), which was fitted to early 1Z's built from 1915 until 1920 using engines like that in the Theta. Both the early 1Z and Theta had the gear and hand brake levers mounted on the right hand side of the chassis. 
When the Kappa was introduced in 1919, the main changes were the fitting of an engine with a detachable cylinder head and a gearbox with gear and brake levers mounted directly on top of it, and these features were carried into a 'new' 1Z and these can be clearly seen on this chassis for sale.  As it was not until 1922 or 23  that the Greek letter names were allocated to chassis built earlier, I suspect that the 1Z nomenclature continued to be used for this modified chassis, the Triota name being used from 1922/3 on.   These 'Triota' chassis, clad locally with armour, were used in Northern Ireland during the 'Troubles' and for some year after - the last ones were sold out of service only in the 1960's or '70's. 
I feel sure that this chassis is one of these latter.
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Dikappa
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« Reply #12 on: 06 July, 2020, 04:21:07 PM »

I'm going to have a look at it tomorrow, so if anyone has specific questions, let me know!

I'm not going to buy it, but just out of interest...
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GG
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« Reply #13 on: 06 July, 2020, 05:46:48 PM »

Just wondering. If this is the chassis that came out of Afghanistan, what happened to the damaged motor when it was there? Is this a replacement motor?

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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #14 on: 06 July, 2020, 11:22:48 PM »

No. The Afghanistan car is a Series 3 car, largely complete and is now in a museum in Dresden, still with the damaged engine. This chassis is one of the two Series 1 cars cars given to Czechoslovakia in 1918 and dismantled in the 1930s. The chassis survived in a technical training school.

More pictures would be useful, the sort that could be referenced against the plans that Ron Francis has. Being an early version it may effectively be little more than a Zeta truck chassis. I haven't come across any of those that have survived but it would be interesting to be able to check what if any differences there are.
« Last Edit: 06 July, 2020, 11:28:11 PM by frankxhv773t » Logged
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