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Author Topic: Windscreen Wiper Motor  (Read 1099 times)
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colinw
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Posts: 69


« on: 05 April, 2020, 08:20:23 PM »

On my 1800 PF Coupe (1966) the windscreen wiper motor has the following wires connected as viewed from left to right, black, 2xyellow (to one connection) another  black and then a green. According to the wiring diagram I have this indicates a 2 speed motor set up. The switch for this on the dash, B&W piano type key, only has the positions on or off.  Can anyone throw some light on this as it seems at first confusing. I have not yet got the switch off yet to get a better look at the connections.
Thank you.   
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Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #1 on: 22 April, 2020, 05:49:55 AM »

According to a wiring diagram that I have for an 815.431 injected 1800 coupe, the wires are as follows:

Yellow (53) permanent supply for internal self-parking contact. The second yellow wire would be the supply (53) to the dashboard switch i.e. not taken from fuse 8 as shown on the standard circuit diagram in the Owner's Manual.
Black (53a) and green (53b) are the low and high speed (or vice-versa) feeds from the switch.
The other black would be ground.
Good luck
Brian.
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colinw
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Posts: 69


« Reply #2 on: 25 April, 2020, 06:07:29 PM »

Hello Brian
Thank you for the reply and explanation of the wire colours and the time taken to do this.
So black (53a) and green (53b) are for the low and high speed.   For me there is still a large question.  My switch is simply on or off without an intermediate position  to enable slow or high speed to be selected.
Is your car fitted with a two speed motor and if so what switch do you have fitted to enable either low or high speeds to be selected?
Thank you again
Regards
Colin   
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Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #3 on: 27 April, 2020, 12:05:08 PM »

Hi Colin,
Actually, I have a Flavia 2000 coupe but I happen to have a copy of the 815 wiring diagram that I was referring to in my earlier reply.
Years ago I had a 1800 Flavia coupe and also a sedan (my first Flavia), so my recollection of the wiper switch are a little hazy! However, the switch would need to have three positions viz. off, low and high or a centre off with high and low on either side of the off position. Perhaps someone has changed the switch? Notwithstanding, you could source a three position switch from, say, the Flavia 2000 Consortium.
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Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #4 on: 30 April, 2020, 07:43:31 AM »

Hi Colin,
I have dug a little further on this question and I think this is how it all works.
The 815 coupes only have a single speed wiper motor...with a bit of curious wiring!
On the assumption yours is an 815, I have checked the wiring diagram in the Owners Manual for that model which is in Angela Verschoor's CD which accompanied her book on Flavias. You need to refer to the wiring diagram to understand the following.
So...
31 Black is the earth wire
54d Green is the supply to the motor from the dash switch
51b Black is an earth return from the motor which is connected to earth when the switch is in the off position
54a Yellow is an ignition switch controlled power supply to the motor for the self-parking feature
(These numbers differ from those I gave you previously and are a bit blurred on the .pdf copy I am looking at)
Now the answer seems to lie in the wiper switch, put your thinking hat on....
It is not a simple single pole single throw switch (SPST) with just two terminals but it has four terminals. One pair are 'closed' and the other pair are 'open' when the switch is in the 'off' position. In the 'on' position the pairs of contacts go to 'open' and 'closed' respectively.
In the 'on' position power is fed along the green wire through the closed contact to the motor which now operates.
Inside the motor, and in general terms, there is another souce of power to the motor fed via a sliding contact , position switch, etc. on the output side of the motor. The contact  breaks this feed when the wipers are in the park position, hence stopping the motor. The feed for this arrangement is the yellow wire and the motor is able to keep running in the 'off' switch position by virtue of black wire being connected to ground by the switch.
Notwithstanding the above, without actually delving into the motor, there must be something else going on inside the motor which switches the negative side of the motor from the casing earth to terminal 51b (black) to permit the parking circuit to work.
I hope you can glean something from this or you might have a 'Eureka' moment. I'll continue digging....
Cheers
Brian.
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colinw
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Posts: 69


« Reply #5 on: 01 May, 2020, 10:04:06 AM »

Dear Brian
I can see that this problem you have solved for me has really been something of a quest for yourself in wanting to know how the Italians have made what I thought could be a simple set up quite complicated.  Thank you very much for the time and effort in helping to solve the mystery I posed.  I saw a circuit one could make up for delay in the sweep of the wipers. With the complication of the wiring you have explained I shall leave well alone and live with a single speed set up.
If I have any ideas for the final part of the solution I shall let you know, but I do not think so.   
Thank you once again.
Regards
Colin
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Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #6 on: 02 May, 2020, 01:52:28 AM »

Hi Colin,
I think I have tracked down a motor the same as yours and I will see what the internal connections are!
In the meantime, have you tried connecting your motor up yet? Just make sure you have the correct fuses in the power circuits, even to the extent of temporarily fitting lower amperage fuses whilst you experiment.
Alternatively, connect the motor casing to negative and try feeding the green wire from battery positive. (Going by your original posting in this saga, I think your green wire is equivalent to the 54d green wire that I referred to). The motor should run but not have any self-parking action. I will watch for a blue flash in our N-W sky. 
Regarding intermittent sweep controls; I have fitted both my Flavia and Aurelia B12 with a Velleman 'Screen Wiper Robot' kit # K2599. They are made in Belgium, I think. Mine were build-it yourself kits but I think there is an assembled version too.
It works well on both my cars but the wiring on them is simpler than  on yours. Admittedly the kit does show circuit connections for 'complicated' wiper wiring like yours but I'd hesitate to try fitting it unless you feel confident to do it.
Stand by for the next instalment of this saga.
At least some good may come from this Covid virus thing!
Cheers
Brian.
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Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #7 on: 02 May, 2020, 08:06:38 AM »

Colin,
A bit more...
The dashboard switch does have to be a three position type i.e. off/slow/fast.
The motor has two windings; a series and a shunt connected one.
From what I have established, the series winding is for the fast speed and the shunt (in combination with the series, I think) for low speed.
Internally there is, as far as I can establish, a switch which sets the parking position and is fed by the yellow wire.
Refer to your manual's circuit diagram for the other ones.
If someone has fitted a single speed switch, it has probably got a yellow wire (positive) and the other contact on the switch connected to 54d (green).
I will continue chasing this up and will get back to you. I want to get hold of the internal wiring diagram of the Bosch 0.390...motor that you have.
Regards
Brian.
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DavidLaver
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Posts: 4144



« Reply #8 on: 02 May, 2020, 04:36:59 PM »

http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p204.html
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Brian Long
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Posts: 81


« Reply #9 on: 03 May, 2020, 08:11:12 AM »

Hi David,
Yes, that is the Velleman device that I was referring to. They are a bit tricky to wire into your wiper circuit because of the way the parking system works which is by grounding the armature. The Velleman has to be wired up following a circuit that they provide which temporarily disconnects this grounding connection on starting the motor.
I think, after much research, that I have got to the bottom of your query! Your coupe is a fuel injected one? Only the FI ones had two speed wipers.
Contrary to my earlier ramblings, the motor, be it two-speed or single speed, does not have shunt and series field windings, but a permanent magnet stator.
The wire colours and terminals that you started this thread with relate to a two-speed system and hence your switch has to have three positions i.e. off/slow/fast. who knows who fitted what in the past?
Sorry that this has taken so long to resolve but at least I learnt a little bit more along the way!
Lets know what you find re the switch; I hope we have flogged this thing to a conclusion.
Best regards.
Brian.
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colinw
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Posts: 69


« Reply #10 on: 05 May, 2020, 09:05:43 AM »

Hi Brian
Thank you for the "full" investigation.
I shall forget fitting a delay device as the wiring looks a little too complicated, unless you can advise otherwise. Thanks David for your input, it was that device I had in mind.
Best regards
Colin
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