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Author Topic: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)  (Read 462 times)
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lanciab20
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« on: 20 March, 2020, 11:18:38 AM »

Proposal to introduce petrol containing up to 10% ethanol (E10)

UK government has launched a consultation on the introduction of petrol with up to 10% ethanol.  In many cases this could mean the withdrawal of E5 as many filling stations will not have the ability to stock an extra grade.

This is not good news for the older vehicle because E10 may cause some flexible fuel hoses, seals, gaskets, plastics and certain metals critical to the fuel system to corrode or degrade. This may cause damage to fuel pumps, carburettors, seals on injectors, pressure regulators and fuel tanks that are not resistant to ethanol. The bioethanol may also dislodge particles on older fuel systems causing blockages.  For details of FBHVC position see https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e10-fuels-consultation-fbhvc-position-statement 

For details of the consultation document see https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol.
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fay66
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« Reply #1 on: 20 March, 2020, 01:09:19 PM »

Proposal to introduce petrol containing up to 10% ethanol (E10)

UK government has launched a consultation on the introduction of petrol with up to 10% ethanol.  In many cases this could mean the withdrawal of E5 as many filling stations will not have the ability to stock an extra grade.

This is not good news for the older vehicle because E10 may cause some flexible fuel hoses, seals, gaskets, plastics and certain metals critical to the fuel system to corrode or degrade. This may cause damage to fuel pumps, carburettors, seals on injectors, pressure regulators and fuel tanks that are not resistant to ethanol. The bioethanol may also dislodge particles on older fuel systems causing blockages.  For details of FBHVC position Cool see https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e10-fuels-consultation-fbhvc-position-statement 

For details of the consultation document see https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol.

I lost the will to live reading it.
I suspect the 5% will go the same way as leaded, very limited availability, more expensive, and finally became unavailable.
And we'll all wind up using some sort of additive.
Brian
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Neil
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« Reply #2 on: 20 March, 2020, 03:04:02 PM »

Alternatively use the higher octane more expensive fuels which supposedly have no added ethanol, will that change in the future in terms of availability and added ethanol?
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Neil   
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lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 20 March, 2020, 06:21:22 PM »

Alternatively use the higher octane more expensive fuels which supposedly have no added ethanol, will that change in the future in terms of availability and added ethanol?

V Power has 5% now!
All those peeps who just have a classic in the garage and dont understand this stuff will find out these toys now will cost a lot to put right after burst fuel lines or worse.
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1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
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« Reply #4 on: 22 March, 2020, 05:45:43 PM »

Many classic cars will be able to use E10 fuel. In the US E10 has been standard petrol
for the last two decades. Perhaps we should ask our US friends?
There is good article in Octane this month on the subject.
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Lightweight_911
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« Reply #5 on: 22 March, 2020, 06:31:09 PM »

.

I use Esso Synergy Supreme+ (Unleaded 97) - which is ethanol free - in each of my 'Classics' ...

.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #6 on: 22 March, 2020, 10:20:00 PM »

.

I use Esso Synergy Supreme+ (Unleaded 97) - which is ethanol free - in each of my 'Classics' ...

.

Thats interesting, but every time I have used Esso 97 (supreme) in my hi compression 1600engined Fulvia they pink badly when hot. Shell does not pink. Hence I think I will stick with Shell whose app allows pay at pump through my phone.....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Lightweight_911
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« Reply #7 on: 23 March, 2020, 08:47:08 AM »

.

I've not experienced any problems with using Esso Synergy Supreme+ in my cars - including my '59 Giulietta Sprint which has a  compression ration of 11.5:1.

However one of the problems I've found over the past 4-5 years in particular is that modern fuels seem to 'go off' much quicker & this is more apparent (& can be more of a problem) in 'classic' cars with relatively primitive fuel intake systems compared to modern cars with computer-controlled metering.

This can manifest itself when the cars are used relatively infrequently & fuel remains in the system for several weeks/months ...

.
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Charles Frodsham
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« Reply #8 on: 23 March, 2020, 10:49:04 AM »

Watch this for some interesting information regarding ethanol in petrol.

https://youtu.be/wOxxPYLhBhM

Also concludes that Esso 97 doesn’t have ethanol in it.

Regarding pinking....it would be necessary to change the timing to compensate.



« Last Edit: 23 March, 2020, 10:53:26 AM by Charles Frodsham » Logged
lancialulu
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« Reply #9 on: 23 March, 2020, 10:57:56 AM »

Also concludes that Esso 97 doesn’t have ethanol in it.

Regarding pinking....it would be necessary to change the timing to compensate

Other fuels dont pink so I choose those to maintain the performance of the engine.... All timing is spot on..

I am sure that esso will fall into line in due course. Its all a matter of time.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Charles Frodsham
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« Reply #10 on: 23 March, 2020, 12:16:39 PM »

I too run my cars on V power. My HF has been set up on the rolling road with this fuel, and it doesn’t pink.

However, I am interested in what affect ethanol has on performance. So we were going to run on the same rolling road with Esso 97 to see if and what difference might be apparent. Unfortunately, this is now on hold due to the current situation, but we will do the test at some point.



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Richard Fridd
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« Reply #11 on: 26 March, 2020, 03:54:23 PM »

There is a book advertised, called 'Classic Engines, Modern Fuel' by Paul Ireland. How to mitigate the effects of ethenol-blend petrol on carburettor-equipped classics. Sounds interesting.
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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« Reply #12 on: 26 March, 2020, 05:40:39 PM »

Am I correct in saying that hand in hand with a higher % of ethanol goes increased volatility and therefore a greater tendency for the fuel to vaporise in hot conditions?
Our beige 4th series B20 which we have had on the road since 1978 never used to suffer fuel vaporisation and yet now it is fairly common in traffic in N Italy in the summer. And anecdotally several other Aurelia owners ( with the carb nicely nestled in the middle of the 'V' ) have increasingly the same problem.
I am not aware of any additive which can help with this.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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fay66
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« Reply #13 on: 27 March, 2020, 10:44:30 AM »

You will also enjoy the benefits of poorer fuel consumption with E10 according to the document.
So crap fuel, with lots of problems, and with poorer fuel consumption, Great Angry
Brian
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1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Neil
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« Reply #14 on: 27 March, 2020, 11:20:40 AM »

Ethanol still contains carbon, I am unsure by how much the CO2 emissions will be lowered if ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than regular fuel, the engine become less efficient and will use more fuel.  But, I have found since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio, but that might not be an option to for us.   
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Neil   
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1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
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