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Author Topic: New Delta  (Read 12692 times)
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Harvey
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« Reply #45 on: 13 June, 2008, 09:56:41 AM »

I'm hoping the Delta sells well enough (and at a good-enough margin) for Lancia to thrive, but not so well that there are millions of them on the road.

Practically every other car I see on the road is a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. I suspect that many BMW and Audi drivers are selecting that car because of the perception of quality of the marque. I've read somewhere that it takes many years of mediocrity to switch people off a badge (or just one if it's a "rusty engine mountings" story Roll Eyes) Of course, they might be constrained on their company car list, but most fleet managers are looking at the depreciation figures, and they're driven by the perceived desirability of the private buyers, so it's a closed circle.

One of the reasons I love my Ypsilon is that there are few in the country (Note: this is not the main reason!). If I have to go back to the company car list, I'l be ordering a BMW - Wincanton follows the herd in restricting choice based on depreciation  Sad  - and I'd be in just yet another 320d.

I know that there's a faction pining for a new Integrale (see CLS website!  Shocked) but I'm looking for comfort and class ahead of raw power, and it looks to me that the Delta will be my sort of car. I've not seen one yet, so though a dedicated Lancisti I might be, I'll wait for a test drive before I send my daughters to the workhouse wave my cheque book.
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« Reply #46 on: 13 June, 2008, 10:02:19 AM »

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Lancia-Delta-1.9-Multijet/233281/

No need to wait for Autocar's driving impressions - here they are.  And they are not impressed.  Moreover, even I might get sick of waiting if it really is July 2009 before it gets here.  Cobblers about the seat and driving position though - the seats are great, I know, I've sat in them.  Probably a fat b****** who drove it... Lips Sealed
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Chris Owen
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« Reply #47 on: 13 June, 2008, 10:35:32 AM »

Problem is the general public are swayed by media opinion, yours has an emotional base. And Harvey is right, fleet managers are hard on figures.
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« Reply #48 on: 13 June, 2008, 10:43:47 AM »

Alan, I will pass your comments on to Autocar, as it seems I was wrong. Sorry. Hope young Simister (officer and a gentleman) is reading this as we want to form a team of journalists
« Last Edit: 13 June, 2008, 10:46:12 AM by peterbaker » Logged

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Harvey
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« Reply #49 on: 13 June, 2008, 10:45:45 AM »

Perception of quality = high residuals
High residuals = on the fleet lists
On the fleet list = plenty on the road
Plenty on the road = herd effect comes into play ("If everyone else bought one, they must be good!")
Herd effect = perception of quality

Ad infinitum.

Driving an Audi is like yachting - huge pitch and yaw, and only a vague connection between the steering and direction of travel. Yuk.
Not driven a BMW recently. Mercedes C Class was bland, and the E Class felt like the QE2.

(PS - My local Fiat dealer has my car down as an Epslong, but they seem enthusiastic to look after it! I've been getting them to stamp the service book with their Alfa stamp instead of the Fiat one, too  Wink)
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« Reply #50 on: 13 June, 2008, 10:59:22 AM »

Anyone noticed the stroke being pulled by the mendacious Autocar journalist?  We know he turned up late and drove the 1.6, briefly.  He's claiming he drove the 1.9.  I sense a journo playing the 'build it up, knock them down' game, because he doesn't actually have much to say.
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Chris Owen
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Alan Temple
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« Reply #51 on: 13 June, 2008, 11:14:49 AM »

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Lancia-Delta-1.9-Multijet/233281/

No need to wait for Autocar's driving impressions - here they are.  And they are not impressed.  Moreover, even I might get sick of waiting if it really is July 2009 before it gets here.  Cobblers about the seat and driving position though - the seats are great, I know, I've sat in them.  Probably a fat b****** who drove it... Lips Sealed

Hold on there. He may well have driven the 1.9 before lunch but when I saw him he was in a 1.6 m-jet. You are right though he is a fat orphan, bigger than me and I'm over 16 stone!
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Alan Temple
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« Reply #52 on: 13 June, 2008, 11:18:45 AM »

Alan, I will pass your comments on to Autocar, as it seems I was wrong. Sorry. Hope young Simister (officer and a gentleman) is reading this as we want to form a team of journalists

I don't see the need to pass on my comments to Autocar as they know their chaps missed half the event. There's no right right or wrong to it it's a fact. Mr Simister was there but unfortuanately I never got a chance to speak to him and introduce myself as he was a late arrival on day two too.
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Alan Temple
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« Reply #53 on: 13 June, 2008, 11:42:48 AM »

Regarding residuals with the recent downturn not all BMW's and Golfs sell for the right money.

I dispose of Company cars for a company and get to drive a lot of these cars. Last year I had a FSH, 38k miles 54 plate 325i with the M-sport pack in the dark blue metallic with tan leather. Car was immaculate for the sale and The CAP guide was between 16,500 - 17,000. Started off towards the high end - no calls. Made it more realistic - no calls. Made it a deal without being stupid - one call from a guy in Southern Ireland who was waiting for insurance money to come through. New Audi A3 was arriving so traded it against this at 13,000.

This year two Golf 1.9 SE tdi's 06 reg FSH one with 16,000 and the other 23,000 miles. 12 months VW warranty to run on both cars and both in excellent condition. Last year these flew out at the asking price. This year no calls despite being well priced and still the same rivals hanging around on Autotrader. In the end I did sell one for 1,000 under the CAP retail price and they took the other one back as a pool car.

This year my 04 Alfa 156 SW 1.9 m-jet Veloce. Cap said top money 7,400. Dealer offered 6,000 trade in. Looked on Autotrader and prices were a lot higher. In the end after 10 calls and holding my nerve I sold it in a month for 9,000. BTW the car cost me 14,500 3 years ago.

Finally, spoke to a guy yesterday who's friend bought a 70k 6 Series, hated it and wanted to trade it in against a new Jag and the best price the Jag dealer could get for the car was 44k. The 6 Series was 2 months old! Another friend got a brand new 6 Series convertible this year from a BMW dealer with nearly 20k off the retail price.

The book has now gone out the window. Are cars that are different and available in smaller numbers with a following actually bucking the trend? In my experience maybe.

Limited supply creates demand. Alfa are doing this and residuals are climbing. the Brera and 159 are loads better at holding their value than Alfa's were a few years ago.

« Last Edit: 13 June, 2008, 12:00:56 PM by Alan Temple » Logged
lee69
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« Reply #54 on: 13 June, 2008, 12:03:41 PM »

Having read the Autocar "article" I wonder if the RHD cars will be any different in their driving position?  I suppose it all depends on the 'shape' of the floorplan, associated pressings and other technical gubbins.  I've driven Corsas in both LHD and RHD and the UK car, despite being a dog's breakfast Corsa, felt like it had more room in the footwell.  Our two LHD smarts also had better positions than later RHD ones.


By the way, if you guys did want to compare apples and pears I can oblige....

http://www.riverford.co.uk/produce/produce_categories.php?ProduceHeaderId=8&PHPSESSID=aaeb81015018a81fb32c74862d2f8ad7

Personally not needing a C, D or even B class Lancia, but looking forward to the A sector posh Topolino!  Mind you if I need to rent a car in Italy this summer I know what I'll be asking for.

Lee
« Last Edit: 13 June, 2008, 12:11:17 PM by lee69 » Logged
inthedark
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« Reply #55 on: 13 June, 2008, 12:05:50 PM »

In my opinion (and it's important to me) all this talk is just talk, I presently drive a Gamma, never the most popular Lancia, a gentleman's coupe
and an aquired taste,  I think the new Delta will also be an aquired taste as well as a car for people who always long to be different.

May not be the same now but years ago Ford & GM used to export large amounts of cars to Jersey for 6 months to boost the export figures,
cars came back as seond hand and not on the import stats.

Hire car companies buy blocks of cars at seriously reduced rates, again to boost sales figures, theses moves obviously ensure certain
models become  "most popular" vehicles

It's all a game and unless you know the rules you will have to accept other people opinions.

Geoff
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peterbaker
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« Reply #56 on: 13 June, 2008, 02:02:30 PM »

So, we are looking for a journalist who weighs more than sixteen stone and works for Autocar. I can only think you mean Steve Cropley only he is not quite that big. If I see him in the press office at Le Mans this weekend I promise not to mention anything. Honest. Anyone else going to the big race this weekend?
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« Reply #57 on: 13 June, 2008, 02:22:16 PM »

More from Autocar - intriguing...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/233343/

A new Stratos or Monte successor - so its not just luxury motors perhaps?  And some intriguing details about other model plans too.
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Chris Owen
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« Reply #58 on: 13 June, 2008, 02:25:58 PM »

Peter - the Autocar journo we are all loving to hate appears to be one Matt Saunders, see:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anythinggoes/archive/2008/06/12/lancia-must-try-harder.aspx

Horse's head for Mister Saunders...

As of 5.30, I've added a comment to Saunders' blog, expressing forthright opposition to his views.  Stitch that, fat boy... Angry
« Last Edit: 13 June, 2008, 04:33:41 PM by fensaddler » Logged

Chris Owen
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« Reply #59 on: 13 June, 2008, 02:26:40 PM »

Im trying to catch up. Do we renew our subscription to Autocar or cancel?
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1961 Lancia Flavia 1.5 Berlina. 2005 Lancia Ypsilon. 1954 Daimler Conquest. 2003 MG ZT-T 135. 1998 SAAB 9-3 Conv.
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