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Author Topic: Radiator ancilliaries electrical connections  (Read 1115 times)
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andyps
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« on: 01 October, 2019, 10:14:42 AM »

I've just had the radiator reconditioned on my Fulvia S2 Sport and when I came to take it out most of the points which should have been connected electrically (temp sensor and fan) weren't. It means that now I'm putting it back together I don't have any reference for it and am struggling to match wires to the wiring diagram I have. Is anyone able to help with photos of the connections and colours that should be used for each - there seem to be more wires loose in the area than there are connections so I'll probably have some other things to look at once I can figure it all!
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #1 on: 01 October, 2019, 04:23:53 PM »

I fear you will have to work it out from first principles.    Essentially you need a power supply from the battery (take it off the starter motor terminal) via the temperature sensor to the fan and another connection from the fan to earth.    You could even run the wire from the thermostatic switch to a relay and use that to energise the fan which would take the strain off the thermostatic switch.    New wiring is never a bad idea!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
andyps
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« Reply #2 on: 01 October, 2019, 09:33:52 PM »

Thanks David, I'm happy to create new wiring but on the basis the original wires must be there for neatness I would rather use them if possible, just not sure which they are (and what all the others are). May have to sit and try to figure it all out! A clearer wiring diagram than the one I have would be great if anyone can help, or even a photo of the wires in situ might help.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 02 October, 2019, 06:06:25 AM »

I fear you will have to work it out from first principles.    Essentially you need a power supply from the battery (take it off the starter motor terminal) via the temperature sensor to the fan and another connection from the fan to earth.    You could even run the wire from the thermostatic switch to a relay and use that to energise the fan which would take the strain off the thermostatic switch.    New wiring is never a bad idea!

I thought the fan was controlled by a relay which was activated by the rad temp switch earthing. Lots of earths around that area. Fan has a fused 12v supply from the starter motor area. Horn wiring also relay operated in that area. Maybe you are missing the relays?
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
andyps
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« Reply #4 on: 02 October, 2019, 10:02:11 AM »

I thought the fan was controlled by a relay which was activated by the rad temp switch earthing. Lots of earths around that area. Fan has a fused 12v supply from the starter motor area. Horn wiring also relay operated in that area. Maybe you are missing the relays?

Thanks.I'll have a proper look but it will likely be the weekend before I get chance. I can see what is probably the fused supply as there is a red wire near the starter motor with a fuse type connection on it, I'll have to find a fuse! Do you know where the relays should be as I've not noticed any. It's difficult when I don't have anything to reference for how it should be - wiring diagrams aren't particularly helpful for that of course. I think the horn did work when I tested it a while ago but no absolutely sure.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #5 on: 02 October, 2019, 03:22:00 PM »

Two tin can relays back to back on a mounting inside the front wing mounted on the inner wing bit.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Jaydub
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« Reply #6 on: 02 October, 2019, 08:06:42 PM »

Hi Andy, If you log on to "Lancisti.net" forum, in the "downloads" under the Fulvia files there is a coloured wiring diagram. Assuming stock wiring it looks very helpful.

Good Luck.
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1600 HF. S2.
andyps
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« Reply #7 on: 04 October, 2019, 10:57:43 AM »

With a quick look last night I think the relays are there.

Just printed the colour wiring diagram, that should make life a lot easier! Thanks for letting me know about it although seeing a clear version of the wiring has prompted me to wonder about the coolant temperature gauge transmitter - is that somewhere on the engine with the one on the radiator with two connections being the one for the radiator fan?
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Jaydub
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« Reply #8 on: 04 October, 2019, 03:29:35 PM »

Hi Andy,
according to that diagram, Fan motor is No.6: Red 15amp fused wire from starter motor as Tim said. On the other side of the switch is a Blue wire from the Relay No. 8. Pin 3. Relay Pin 1 ( Black wire)goes to one side of the Radiator switch to provide an earth to the relay when the switch closes. Other side of switch to earth. Relay Pin 2  is a Red from the HORN relay Pin 2 (2x reds on this connector). This emanates from the cigar lighter.

Temperature gauge transmitter No. 19 (shown on the left below the headlamps) has a Grey/Black wire, Situated on the cylinder head.

I hope that helps.
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1600 HF. S2.
andyps
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« Reply #9 on: 04 October, 2019, 08:41:51 PM »

Thanks, think that will be helpful. I was trying to figure what wires would fit to where on my car tonight based on the drawing but the battery ran out on my lamp - currently waiting for the electrician to come and install wiring so struggling to get much done. Working tomorrow and out in the evening so hopefully can figure it on Sunday.

Seeing what is connected to where on the relay looks difficult though with the mounting location hidden inside the wing cavity!
« Last Edit: 04 October, 2019, 08:43:54 PM by andyps » Logged
lancialulu
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« Reply #10 on: 05 October, 2019, 06:08:30 AM »

Seeing what is connected to where on the relay looks difficult though with the mounting location hidden inside the wing cavity!
Probably easier to unmount the relays from the wing to wire them correctly. As a trick these relays can be opened up easily to check contacts and coil / contact pin outs.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
andyps
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Posts: 109


« Reply #11 on: 13 October, 2019, 10:32:37 PM »

Finally managed to get a bit of time to look at the wiring again today but am really struggling to figure what goes where. I've located the wires for the fan and can see what I think is the earth wire for the sensor. I can't figure which wire it is for the live to the sensor though so took the relays off the wing panel to have a closer look but still can't figure it - there is one which seems to have the right wires but the black goes to the alternator rather than having any sort of connection which might be suitable for the radiator fan sensor. Can anyone tell me what the other relays are that are on the mount on the inner wing so I can try and figure it later - don't know if this picture helps but it is what was mounted together on the bracket attached to the wing (the larger black box has a green and a red wire attached to it if that helps).

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lancialulu
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« Reply #12 on: 14 October, 2019, 09:28:32 AM »

one is horn relay, the other is fan relay. The black box is a ducillier alternator regulator (you should be able to trace all these wires with an ohm meter (disconnect one end....). The fan has its own 12v fused supply from the startermotor main 12v lead. The relay controls the earth to the fan.... the thermo switch (sensor in your note??) controls the earth to the fan relay coil. Hope that helps.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
andyps
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Posts: 109


« Reply #13 on: 14 October, 2019, 03:04:27 PM »

That's great, many thanks for your help - I've sussed the fan (I hope) and can check the relay for the horn which should help me determine which is the one for the the fan.
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andyps
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« Reply #14 on: 14 October, 2019, 08:00:43 PM »

Just been out for a quick look and that is really helpful. I can see which relay/solenoid is which and the wires do seem right there. What is odd is that the black wire for the thermo sensor is connected to the relay and then gets combined with the other wires inside the wrapping but I can't see it coming out anywhere. Will have to do some careful unwrapping at the weekend to trace where it goes. I can see one that I'm pretty sure is the earth from the sensor so that's easy!
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