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Author Topic: Water Pump seized / clogged up.  (Read 650 times)
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Angle Grinder
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« on: 13 July, 2019, 09:45:36 AM »

So last night, as I am on the last short stretch home, my fan belt suddenly starts to squeal crazy loud.

Today I take the fan belt off and spin the the alternator (it's fine), spin the fan (it's fine) and then try the water pump,,, and it rotates a few degrees (back an forth), but then becomes too stiff to turn. There's no wiggle in the shaft to suggest that the water pump bearings are bad.

I put K-Seal (leak fixer) in my coolant last year after changing all the coolant pipes and left it in the system. I suspect the K seal has sludged up in my water pump and is impeding the impeller from turning.

Has anyone else been here before? Am I being too optimistic to think that a reverse flush with a hose pipe might solve the issue. Is this a water pump off job?

There were no sounds of bearing failure and the car didn't overheat. First indication of any issue was the belt squealing.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Angle Grinder
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« Reply #1 on: 13 July, 2019, 11:26:04 AM »

So... I've drained coolant which was full of those little copper particles that they use in that "K-Seal" leak fix stuff.

I've tried to reverse flush the system and have wiggled the water pump back and forth in the hope of dislodging what I thought might be a bit of clogging in the impeller.

Can't turn the pump more than 5 - 10 degrees by hand acting direct on the pulley, but if I wrap fan belt around the pulley and use quite a lot of force, I can turn the pump around through 360 degrees by muscle power.

Looks like I am going to have to remove the pump and hope that I can clean things up to return the car the to correct operation. If not, I'll be looking for pump rebuild instructions.

No other signs of anything to suggest bearing failure.

All suggestions, recommendations, experiences or commiserations welcome.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #2 on: 13 July, 2019, 07:48:10 PM »

So... I've drained coolant which was full of those little copper particles that they use in that "K-Seal" leak fix stuff.
All suggestions, recommendations, experiences or commiserations welcome.

Avoid use of K-seal! I also found a cylinder block full of what looked like sawdust after using "Celit"
It would be good to hear if anyone knows of a sealant which does not load the cooling system with crud!

Mike
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lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 13 July, 2019, 09:19:41 PM »

Dont use liquid steel either. Cost me a new (fing expensive) radiator core to my B12.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Jaydub
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« Reply #4 on: 14 July, 2019, 10:24:00 AM »

Personally never had a problem with K-seal unlike Radweld etc. However to seize a water pump I would suggest a piece of sand casting/debris from inside the block water jacket has dislodged and got into the impeller housing, or the impeller itself has corroded and a piece fallen off.  Sounds like a pump off job to be sure.
Good Luck.
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Angle Grinder
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« Reply #5 on: 14 July, 2019, 11:47:20 AM »

Yep, Jaydub's suggestion of something loose in the impeller housing is most likely. It would explain the fact that the pump can be rotated freely back and forth through a few degrees, but then loads up when turned a bit further. I can picture a piece of debris rattling between the impeller blades and then jamming.

I have, with quite a bit of effort, managed to turn the pump through 360 degrees. I hope I haven't now scored the impeller housing as a result, but maybe that won't impact top much on the operation of the pump.

Going off on holiday in a weeks time so just going to fill her back up with anti freeze and forget about it until I return, hopefully full of vim and vigour to tackle the job.

What's the going rate for a water pump these days?
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
brian
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« Reply #6 on: 14 July, 2019, 05:26:32 PM »

I suggest EP Services in Wolverhampton who say they have done "loads" of Flavia waterpumps now and they seem very competent and not expensive. Mine that failed on way to SPR has new bearings, seals, a new shaft out of hardened steel and the wobbly pulley bushed - all for under 200 and "lifetime guarantee"!
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #7 on: 14 July, 2019, 09:43:04 PM »

About 60 years ago I used Radweld in a very leaky unrestored Rolls Twenty. It stopped the leaks, which were in the top of cylinder block and head, but unfortunately the car, packed with my student chums, boiled on a serious hill in the Lake District - not the fault of the Radweld but very annoying as it spouted up and landed on the glass of the windscreen which I had just replaced - it set on the glass and was virtually impossible to remove! Recently a friend used some old stock of Barrs Leaks in his Rolls Twenty and it congealed in the header tank, blocking the top of the honeycomb. Seems like most of these radiator sealants are bad news.
One brand I have not tried but would consider is Fernox whose anticorrosion product Fernox F1 for heating systems is excellent and is safe with all metals and would be a good Summer use alternative to antifreeze for corrosion where there is a mix of alloy, brass and steel parts in the cooling system as is the case in the Augusta.

Mike
« Last Edit: 15 July, 2019, 08:45:29 PM by Mikenoangelo » Logged
Angle Grinder
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« Reply #8 on: 13 October, 2019, 09:25:57 PM »

Just to update you all. I sent the water pump off to EP Engineering in Wolverhampton and they rebuilt the pump with new bearings and seals for just 85 (VAT and Postage on top of that of course).

Apparently rest of the pump was in great condition and impeller looked like a new casting.

I refitted it all this weekend and had a very pleasant test drive. Son I'm a very happy customer with a water pump that now has a clean bill of health and a lifetime guarantee.

For ~100, I think it would be a prudent move for any Flavia owner to get their water pump reconditioned even if it isn't currently showing any signs of wear.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Neil
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« Reply #9 on: 14 October, 2019, 07:40:01 PM »

I wonder if they would refurbish a Fulvia water pump for a similar price, I have a spare in pieces in a drawer waiting to be looked at one day.
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Neil   
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #10 on: 14 October, 2019, 07:55:43 PM »

Good idea, I have 12 sitting in a drawer waiting to be be re-furbished .... and I suspect that I'm not the only one !
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Fulvia 1600 HF,
lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 14 October, 2019, 08:27:14 PM »

I wonder if they would refurbish a Fulvia water pump for a similar price, I have a spare in pieces in a drawer waiting to be looked at one day.
New ones are same price......
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
Neil
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« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 07:37:28 PM »

Tim, I had not looked at the price of new Fulvia pumps yet, refurbished ones to me seemed better value potentially but may be not.
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Neil   
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1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
lancialulu
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« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:36:00 PM »

Tim, I had not looked at the price of new Fulvia pumps yet, refurbished ones to me seemed better value potentially but may be not.

You can have one for a Bugatti....

https://www.ebay.it/itm/POMPA-ACQUA-BUGATTI-PA276-RR-LANCIA-FULVIA-BERLINA-1-1-81191442/312783868073?hash=item48d35f10a9:g:CJAAAOSwbcddjhRe
Logged

Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
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