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Author Topic: S2 Steering Idler  (Read 558 times)
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ben
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« on: 18 October, 2018, 09:29:11 PM »

I have decided that there is excessive play in the bearings in the steering idler in my Sport 1600.

It seems nearly impossible to remove it for attention without removing the complete front subframe/engine assembly.This is because there is not enough access to release the taper joints that connect to the steering arm and the link bar to the steering box.

I have tried to separate the steering arm taper using a wedge but only succeeded in wreaking the rubber boot and am concerned about damaging the rest of the steering gear as the hammer blows are reacted "down the line" as it were.

Does anyone have any tips on the best way to proceed?

Ben
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roddy
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« Reply #1 on: 18 October, 2018, 10:59:44 PM »

Hello Ben.  No you don't need to remove the subframe/engine.  Working from below the car, with the l/h front wheel off and the battery out.  Remove the split pins and undo the nuts on the cross-link ball joint and track-rod end ball joint, until the face of the nut is level with the end of the threads.  Use a scissor type joint splitter (Sykes Pickavant?), fit on and apply as much pressure as is possible on the tightening thread bolt. This may spring the taper but if not, very often a sharp blow on the side of the steering arm casing, probably using a hammer and suitable length chisel, will 'shock' break the taper.  You can move the steering from lock to lock to gain maximum access and clearance for spanners etc.  The idler with its arm still attached can then be unbolted and removed.

Regards - Roddy
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Roddy Young
Dunfermline, Fife

1970 Fulvia Sport S1 1.3S
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
chriswgawne
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« Reply #2 on: 19 October, 2018, 06:38:24 AM »

As Roddy says its a straightforward job as long as you have a decent splitter of the right type and size.
I would also replace all the steering arm joints at the same time as I have always found it difficult to establish how worn they are whether under load or not.
The prize at the end of the job is lovely pin sharp Fulvia steering.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 19 October, 2018, 09:52:03 AM »

I used a pickle fork to separate but found the pulled the ball into its socket and locked it (well made the steering very stiff). I changed the ball joints the next day! The beauty of the pickle fork is ease of access to separate...
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
ben
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« Reply #4 on: 21 October, 2018, 09:17:58 PM »

Thank you all for prompt responses, suggestions,and encouragement.
I managed it with a "pickle fork" eventually but only after also heating the outer the two joints with an oxygen-acetyline torch and loading the inner joint by propping it from below and then letting most of the weight of the car on it.
I am sure neither joint had been disturbed since the car was built!

And I hate to think what Harry would have thought about such brutality!!


* IMG_3384.JPG (1538.56 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 12 times.)
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ben
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« Reply #5 on: 21 October, 2018, 09:40:52 PM »

Next stage was to strip the unit.
I used my press to extract the arm from the shaft---it is an awkward shape to set up---and nerve wracking pumping up the load and waiting for the explosion.The first time when it went bang it was because the angle iron supports had bent and the whole lot crashed to the floor----- still intact!
Second time with stronger supports and more encouragement from the oxygen-acet torch and a whack with the big hammer it went with a much bigger bang and success.
I must say however that my recommendation to other diy,ers would be "Don't try this at home" if you don't have a 12 Ton Press and nerves of steel.


* IMG_3384.JPG (1538.56 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 11 times.)
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ben
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« Reply #6 on: 21 October, 2018, 09:44:19 PM »

Sorry,wrong pic.


* IMG_3385.JPG (1369.27 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 12 times.)
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ben
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« Reply #7 on: 21 October, 2018, 09:58:38 PM »

Now the thing is I was expecting to find a bush of some sort at the bottom of the housing----but all there was was some strange sort of greasy dust so the only thing supporting or locating the shaft was a lip seal
The whole design seems rather weird.

So does anyone have a picture of what it was or should be like please?
Needless to say the Concise Repair Shop manual does not help!

Thanks again for looking----as they say on ebay!
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lancialulu
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« Reply #8 on: 22 October, 2018, 06:41:05 AM »

The S2 /3 idler had quite thin wall nylon bushes top and bottom about 40mm in length. The bottom one may have virtually disappeared but the top one should be there....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
lancialulu
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« Reply #9 on: 22 October, 2018, 07:12:22 AM »

Tav 48 part 1 x2

* steering idler.pdf (24.71 KB - downloaded 33 times.)
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
davidwheeler
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« Reply #10 on: 22 October, 2018, 06:20:15 PM »

I believe Omicron stock them.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
ben
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« Reply #11 on: 23 October, 2018, 04:42:43 PM »

Thanks for the diagram Tim.
Interestingly it shows a grease nipple which my housing definitely does not have.
My friend who is making a pair of bushes for me suggests that part of the Fiat rationalisation program may have been to switch from metal ( phosphor bronze?) to self lubricated plastic to eliminate the need for greasing which was a very popular "improvement" at around that time.
At any rate there was nothing left of either bush apart from some sort of graphite paste.

Ben
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fay66
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« Reply #12 on: 23 October, 2018, 07:09:38 PM »

Ben
All series 1's had the grease nipple that was done away with on series 2,
Your man is right about Fiat cutting the costs and is very noticeable with Fiat fixings being used, rather than the better quality items fitted during Lancia ownership.
Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #13 on: 25 October, 2018, 08:52:10 PM »

It has just come to my mind that my series 2 Sport 1.6 has a grease nipple on the idler box and I pumped grease in it from beneath a while ago.  Mine is 1972 and originally from Singapore - perhaps the colonial models had the better idler boxes?   I should have to go and look to check my memory but it is dark and raining...
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
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