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Author Topic: Engine failure on way back from SPR  (Read 647 times)
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brian
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« on: 14 June, 2018, 07:47:40 PM »

I thought it best to start anew as really not SPR.
I have taken the engine out and removed the side plate and fished all the bits in photo 1 out of the sump. Photo 2 shows the damage to the cylinder above the stuck piston remains.
Did the gudgeon pin fail and then the bigend bolt fail secondarily or V.V. ?
Is it odd that the top of the con rod is intact - as is the con rod itself albeit bent a bit?

Anyway:
Q1 Can a new liner be welded in? If so, who?
Q2 If not - I will need another block. I did have some but they were really so badly corroded and worn that they were not salvageable. Has anybody got one they do not want?
Picures attached.

* Pic 2.jpg.zip (49.72 KB - downloaded 83 times.)
* Pic1.jpg.zip (40.22 KB - downloaded 68 times.)
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Brian Hands


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1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
fay66
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« Reply #1 on: 14 June, 2018, 10:12:27 PM »

I thought it best to start anew as really not SPR.
I have taken the engine out and removed the side plate and fished all the bits in photo 1 out of the sump. Photo 2 shows the damage to the cylinder above the stuck piston remains.
Did the gudgeon pin fail and then the bigend bolt fail secondarily or V.V. ?
Is it odd that the top of the con rod is intact - as is the con rod itself albeit bent a bit?

Anyway:
Q1 Can a new liner be welded in? If so, who?
Q2 If not - I will need another block. I did have some but they were really so badly corroded and worn that they were not salvageable. Has anybody got one they do not want?
Picures attached.
Ouch Brian  Shocked
That looks pretty terminal.
Brian
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ben
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« Reply #2 on: 14 June, 2018, 11:03:58 PM »

My guess is big-end bolt broke,
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JohnMillham
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« Reply #3 on: 15 June, 2018, 01:54:13 PM »

Oh dear! I do have a spare block and will have a look at it and let you know what state it's in. I also have a few used pistons, but I don't have any rods.
Regards, John
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brian
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« Reply #4 on: 15 June, 2018, 06:26:05 PM »

Now got all bits out of the engine. Gudgeon pin found in sump and is intact so unless piston broke somewhere around pin/lower down it does look like a big end bolt failure. The block is heavily damaged - top face cracked, lots of cylinder wall in pieces so I think is too damaged to repair. The crankcase has a tiny crack on the side which is safely weldable. There has been a small chunk taken from the bottom of one of the webs (is this what the flat bits of the crank that the bigend sits between?) and I presume the space visible beneath is an oil way. Could this be welded too as otherwise no damage seems to have been done to the crank? Head, timing compartment, mains all seem fine. 
Should I find a matched set of conrods or do I go along the route I am on with the Aprilia and having new ones made? I thought as I was spending a vast amount on that engine rebuild I might as well.
Ah well, the joys of motoring in interesting cars!
Brian
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
Tony Stephens
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« Reply #5 on: 15 June, 2018, 07:47:49 PM »

Sorry, Brian, but to me it looks like crank, rods, pistons and block while repairing the crankcase.
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the.cern
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« Reply #6 on: 16 June, 2018, 10:45:24 AM »

Hello Brian, sorry to see all that damage to your engine. If I am identifying correctly the bits in the con rod photograph your engine had been converted to shells for the big ends. Is that common?

I am sorry, I am not able to provide any parts to help you with your rebuild. Of course James and Morris must be an early call ...... they may have the necessary bits or might know who has an appropriate stash!!!

Good luck with this and please keep us all up to speed on progress!!

                                                     Andy
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Kari
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« Reply #7 on: 17 June, 2018, 10:19:43 AM »

Brian,
I am sorry to hear about the mishap. Looks familiar to me as I had this happen back in the 70ties, although not as bad as yours. A split pin in one big-end nut vibrated it self to nothing and the nut just loosend until the bolt was free. All found in the sump. The crankshaft journal got a number of heavy nicks and a small part of the cylinder skirt broke away. The conrod is bent about both axis.

I would go for another engine. Judging by the extent of the damage, your engine got an enormous beating and there might be hidden cracks. Also welding on a crankshaft is doubthful.

An adress I could think of is Morris Parry and there are a couple of complete engines in Jan Van Hooricks stock, at least were there last September.

Best wishes  Karl


* IMG_2133.JPG (1899.71 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 22 times.)
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JohnMillham
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« Reply #8 on: 17 June, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »

Oh dear! I do have a spare block and will have a look at it and let you know what state it's in. I also have a few used pistons, but I don't have any rods.
Regards, John
Not very good, but it might be repairable. I could take it to Donington Park (VSCC racing) next weekend if you want to have a look at it.
Regards, John
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Dikappa
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« Reply #9 on: 17 June, 2018, 07:43:25 PM »

I have a cilinder block, will check the condition and report...
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brian
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« Reply #10 on: 17 June, 2018, 08:26:13 PM »

Many thanks for all feedback. It does seem a shame not to use what appears ok although I would certainly have anything crack-tested before re-use.
I will chat to the Parrys and Jan v-H as both do indeed have masses of Augusta stuff and in many ways I would rather like an engine that was whole rather than do bits from many. It took me ages to get a sound engine in the 1980s/90s as my car was a collection of odd bits in boxes when I bought it in 1981.
 
Brian
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
brian
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« Reply #11 on: 21 June, 2018, 08:24:45 PM »

Had a good day with Morris Parry today. His thinking is that a big end bolt failed and he noted that some of my bolts were M8 1.25 rather than 1.00 and some were "waisted" - i.e. had been stretched, over-torqued, presumably to get the split pin in line. I have a set of con rods that have the top bushed and the bottom machined larger and so the +0.04 NEW pistons/rings  I have will fit perfectly at the top and all I need is to get some bronze shell carriers made to take what seem to be Hillman Imp shells that fit my undamaged crankshaft. How lucky is that! Obviously I will have toughened bolts with a fine thread which I gather are readily available.
The crankcase needs just small weld and check for nasty cracks.
He had (now mine!) a block that does need some work but relatively little and the rather rusty bores appear to be standard and so can easily be made to take my pistons.
All in all, I feel extremely lucky with the localised damage and knowing Morris!!
In passing, we also sorted my non-OE petrol tank to take the electonic fuel gauge which he has made from odd bits of Fulvia and Walkman and a German tube sender so over the Winter I should be very well sorted.
Brian
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Brian Hands


1922 Hands Tourer
1934 Augusta standard saloon
1938 Aprilia S1 saloon
1953 Aurelia B10
1965 Flavia Sport
JohnMillham
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« Reply #12 on: 22 June, 2018, 10:15:27 AM »

Glad to hear you are sorted. The three blocks in my boot can now go back into storage (2 of mine and 1 of Mike Wheeler's) as they are sure to be much worse than the one you have got from Morris. I hope the rebuild goes well.
Regards, John
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Parisien
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« Reply #13 on: 22 June, 2018, 11:34:51 AM »

Indeed, good to detect an upbeat nature to your post and a much improved outlook for your engine rebuild, great also that the family LMC has come to the rescue again, keep us posted, remember a photo is worth at least, 3452 words!!!

P
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Frank Gallagher
JohnMillham
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« Reply #14 on: 22 June, 2018, 01:34:19 PM »

Indeed, good to detect an upbeat nature to your post and a much improved outlook for your engine rebuild, great also that the family LMC has come to the rescue again, keep us posted, remember a photo is worth at least, 3452 words!!!

P
adjusted for inflation!
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