Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: nthomas1 on 06 September, 2017, 09:10:38 PM



Title: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 06 September, 2017, 09:10:38 PM
Travel and family commitments have kept me from spending much time on my S2 Coupe rebuild this year.  Over the last couple of weeks I've got back to the job of removing paint and old filler from the rear end of the car.  I also revisited the bonnet.  I'd cleaned and de-rusted it last year and finished it with a coat of black Hammerite.  I didn't take it back to bare metal except where there was rust, and I didn't remove all of the thick underseal-like coating on the spars.  Having worked on-and-off for two years now I've learned a lot and I've set my standards higher, so I completely stripped the bonnet back to bare metal last weekend, and have now etch-primed it - see pictures below.  I've bought timber and heavy duty castors so my next job is to build the dolly that will support the front end of the car when I remove the rolling subframe.  My welder (for the back end of the car - valance and rear panel replacement) - has let me down, so I now have to search again for somebody local (Ormskirk, west Lancashire) who doesn't charge Aston/Ferrari prices! 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 September, 2017, 09:14:16 PM

Looks lovely just in that primer.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 September, 2017, 09:16:17 PM
Lovely ! I know how long these things take to get them looking as good as that

Bon Courage


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 September, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
Looks very good. I take it that you can bring parts like this back to the house and can use use mains-powered tools to speed things up?


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 07 September, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
Looks very good. I take it that you can bring parts like this back to the house and can use use mains-powered tools to speed things up?

I'm afraid not Stanley.  We live on the first floor of a Victorian villa and it's not practical to take parts up there.  Even if I could, I think it would lead rapidly to divorce proceedings!  So I continue to work in the garage with Ryobi grinders, scraper and drill, and take the five 18v rechargeable batteries up to the apartment every evening for charging.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: peteracs on 08 September, 2017, 01:41:04 PM
Could you use a small generator to save on using battery items if you have no electricity on site?

Peter


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 08 September, 2017, 11:12:46 PM
Could you use a small generator to save on using battery items if you have no electricity on site?

Peter


I did consider that Peter but I'm limited on storage space and was worried about the noise impact on the other people that live in apartments in the building.  I had a generator when I lived in the USA and it was quite noisy and I assumed the same would be true of ones over here.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: andyps on 10 September, 2017, 05:59:17 PM
Some of the Honda generators are very compact and quiet, not cheap to buy however.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 05 January, 2018, 10:27:12 PM
The car is now at the welding shop for rear-end restoration, new rear panel. new rear valance, new driver-side floor pan, new outer sills, and new front subframe mounting boxes.  So far the focus has been on rebuilding the tops of the rear wings - which were full of holes and badly rusted.   As the back end of the car is in much worse condition than the front I think the car must have been parked for a long time with the back end open to the elements.

I'm very impressed with the work that my welder is doing.  He understands the car, and is carefully and rigorously rebuilding, continually checking shut lines for the boot lid, and ensuring left and right sides are symmetrical.  There had been some previous rework to the right side that resulted in an excessive gap on that side which is now being rectified.  The shape of the rear end of the Fulvia presents quite a challenge to the welder.   It was also good today to see the new rear panel and valance held in position with vice grips. I'm looking forward to seeing them welded in place. Below are some before and in-progress pictures.  Onwards and upwards! 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 January, 2018, 09:14:05 PM

Inspiring stuff.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 11 January, 2018, 03:05:59 PM
A few more pictures of new metal being welded in.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: Jaydub on 12 January, 2018, 03:29:55 PM
Looking good Norm, your body man knows his stuff. I need to start my restoration this year hopefully.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 12 January, 2018, 06:39:56 PM
He's a magician! He did some very major surgery on my Stratos replica a few years ago replacing a couple of chassis rails in the engine bay that carried the top mounts for the rear suspension after moisture got in through a gap I hadn't spotted. Oops.
He's also build a Stratos replica (that he regrets selling, it's how our paths crossed 30 years ago), had an Evo 2 new back in the day and has another pampered one now. His work on rally cars includes work for RED in Widnes on works cars plus many privateer cars and recently quite a lot of Porsche 911's. They rot something awful but values justify restoration.
If you remember the Peugeot 306 Maxi it was Geoff that made ALL the wings for the entire production run after Peugeot themselves failed to work out how to press them! Also in his portfolio is some pretty radical work grafting Ford Sierra Cosworth running gear into Mk1/2 Escorts and Capris plus Peugeot 405 Mi16 running gear into 205's and 309s.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/575194183642757391/

And he's got one of those as well, sold it, regretted it and managed to buy it back...

Highly recommended for his skills!

Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 January, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
Yes Guy, he certainly knows what he's doing.  He showed me the Stratos door handles that he made. Even my wife (shown holding the handle here) was impressed.  Very impressive!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 January, 2018, 09:15:22 PM
Some more progress.  The rear corners of the boot floor have been cut away to allow access to the wing area underneath, where corrosion needs to be sorted out..  The right side floor section is quite ropey so a new section has been fabricated and is ready to be welded in place.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 January, 2018, 09:37:49 AM
I'm always in awe of this type of craftmanship. I mean how many curves are there just on those rear wing edges alone? I find these kind of people tend to work alone but imagine being young and being taught by someone like this.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2018, 04:28:58 PM
If only we could all weld like your man....


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 24 January, 2018, 04:55:30 PM
Some more progress.  Top edges of the rear wings now complete and primed.  Both lower rear corners reconstructed - with much new metal. A large portion of the rear of the rear wheel arches also rebuilt with new metal.  Just a little more fettling and then the rear panel and valance will be fitted.  Some before and after shots below.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 January, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
Looking great !

What is the rear cross member like - they get tatty behind the rear spring mounts and so easy to do when you are at this stage


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 24 January, 2018, 05:45:23 PM
Looking great !

What is the rear cross member like - they get tatty behind the rear spring mounts and so easy to do when you are at this stage

Not sure of the terminology Simon.  Are you referring to the box section that runs across the car under the boot floor, between the fuel tank opening and the rear of the car?  If so, that is in remarkably sound condition.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 26 January, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
I'm pleased with the way the boot floor is looking.  I had de-rusted and then primed/painted the interior except for the corners which were in poor condition. The following three pictures show the right rear corner: 1) as it went to the welder; 2) the template I made to help in fabricating a new section; 3) the new section made by my welder and fitted into place.  Onwards and upwards!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 29 January, 2018, 06:49:38 PM
Big milestone today.  The new rear panel and lower valance have been welded into place - following much corrective surgery to the weld flanges on the wings, and the edges of the wings themselves.  Just some tidying up of the welds left to do before starting on the sills. Very encouraging to have reached this point, and great to have found such a capable welder!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: Jaydub on 29 January, 2018, 08:40:43 PM
Looking good Norm, he certainly knows his craft. I like the temporary clips holding the panels together prior to welding.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: stanley sweet on 30 January, 2018, 10:54:17 AM
This is going to be a very nice Fulvia. Makes a big difference when you find someone you can trust.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 January, 2018, 11:29:17 AM

Is that rear panel plug welded or a seam along the edge?


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 30 January, 2018, 02:47:14 PM

Is that rear panel plug welded or a seam along the edge?

They are plug welds David. Done with a mig welder and ground off flush. I figured that would keep me closest to the original spot welds.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 30 January, 2018, 05:52:41 PM
The plug welds look to work well

Slight aside - is the new rear panel "dished" at all , top to bottom and L to R , or is it flat ?


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 30 January, 2018, 06:30:58 PM
The plug welds look to work well

Slight aside - is the new rear panel "dished" at all , top to bottom and L to R , or is it flat ?


It is dished Simon, in both directions, just like the original. 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 09 March, 2018, 06:46:14 PM
The first metal was cut away from the driver-side outer sill today.  There's plenty of evidence of poor prior repair work, but it's good to see that the inner sills are quite sound.  The outer sills will be replaced, as will a large section of the driver-side floorpan and the rear subframe mounting box.  The right door has been put back on in order to get the shut lines correct when the new sill and quarter panels are fitted. It's good to be working on the sills, having spent so much time on the rear end of the car!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 09 March, 2018, 09:55:54 PM
Perceived wisdom is to insert a central steel membrane twixt inner and outer sills. Adds a bit of weight but adds a lot of strength.....


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 11 March, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
Here are the new sills, quarter panels and mounting boxes ready to be fitted.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 March, 2018, 07:13:09 PM
Nice .... looking forward to seeing them go in


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 12 March, 2018, 11:42:11 PM

Any thoughts on jacking points? 

My car has only one out of four in place and it is in poor condition. The others are missing as a result of some rather botched work on the weld flanges by a former owner.  Are they better omitted, with jacking taking place elsewhere, or should they be fitted?  As I'm having new outer sills fitted I'm wondering whether to have 4 new jacking points fabricated.  If that makes sense can anybody provide decent photographs and dimensions of them?  They are just visible on one picture in TAV but there's no illustration of them.   Here's a picture of one on an HF taken at last year's AGM.   


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 13 March, 2018, 08:05:19 AM
Norman I would make/remake the jacking points and the sill detail so that the car is "correct". I think I have the template for the jacking points and can email you a scan. BTW are you going to add the central membrane between the inner and outer sill? Tim


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: chriswgawne on 13 March, 2018, 09:17:31 AM
Norman,
Your are doing a fine job properly on the rest of the car so please renew the jacking points (even if you don't use them).
These days I start from the premise that Lancia's engineers ( as opposed maybe to their accountants) always knew what they were doing so why try to change what was almost certainly pretty good in the first place.
And when the old car market re-adjusts downwards ( its the next thing to happen in the cycle) the cars that will hold their value best will be those which exhibit originality whether it be engine, interior or body.
I say this having gone down many expensive blind alleys in my motoring life doing exactly the opposite of what I preach these days.
Chris   


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 March, 2018, 09:48:54 AM
Do you still have the square bits with holes underneath as well ? They are on the HF but not, I think on S1 cars. They are useful when there is a car lift available for tyre fitting etc


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: the.cern on 13 March, 2018, 07:11:47 PM
Hello Norman, I absolutely agree with Chris and Tim .... 'do it as it was' is a great maxim.
I have never worked on a Fulvia, but, from what Tim has said, assume there is an inner sill, an outer sill and a central diaphragm. If that is the case and the central diaphragm has suffered which is invariably the case, in my opinion you MUST repair it. This is a hugely important part of the vehicle's structural integrity. If you the whole assembly is not sound then using the new jacking point may well cause, at the least, local buckling of the sill. Ship and ha'porth o tar comes to mind!!

I have been enjoying your restoration saga, don't spoil it now!! Good luck!

                                                                              Andy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 13 March, 2018, 09:56:38 PM

Tim, Chris, Simon, Andy - thanks for the advice on the jacking points.  I will ensure that they are fitted and that originality is maintained.

Tim - thanks for the offer of the template.  Iíve sent you a pm.

Simon - yes, all four of the square locator brackets with holes in are still in place.  The first picture below shows left front, which is where the one decent jacking point is located.  The second picture shows right front, which is on a section of floor pan which is being replaced, so Iíll be careful to keep the bracket for reuse.

Andy - the S2 was factory fitted with a central membrane between inner and outer sill only at either end. It was not continued for the full length of the outer sill - so was not present for the central portion of the car below the doors.  Some people, during rebuilds, have fitted a full length membrane as Tim suggests.  I can see the value of that for strengthening cars for rallying or racing but am not sure of the added value for a road car.  I plan to talk to my welder about it when Iím next back in Lancashire.

Thanks again to you all for the advice and interest.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 22 March, 2018, 07:33:09 PM

Metal is being cut away to allow the new outer sills to be fitted.  There's evidence of a poor repair to the inner sill on the right rear corner of the car, so that is being rectified.  Work is proceeding slowly as my welder gets asked to do a lot of "urgent" work for motor sport teams.  That suits me as I'm not in that much of a hurry to finish, especially as I'm away in Spain such a lot, and it gives me time to work on the refurbishment of the twelve boxes of parts that have been removed from the car! Tomorrow I'm off to the Classic Car Restoration show at the NEC so have gathered a stack of hardware samples to look for while there.  There were quite a few hardware suppliers at the show last year with a lot on sale.

Last week I noticed that the flare on the right rear wheel arch was not as pronounced as that on the other three arches.  Further examination revealed a prior repair, using a lot of lead filler.  I decide to replace the wheel arch on that corner in order to get all the flares to match up.  I ordered a new one from David Ashworth ten days ago and picked it up today and dropped it with the welder who was impressed with the quality of the part - see picture below. 

I'm hoping to see a lot of progress on the sills over the next week.  On Monday I'll be helping to lift the body off the front subframe to provide access to the subframe mounting boxes. Will keep you posted. 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 27 March, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
This morning the first new subframe mounting box was installed - on the left side of the car.  The second picture shows the jig that was welded up to ensure correct positioning of the new box. We kept the subframe under the car with the body hoisted up about 3 inches while the old box was being cut out.  That enabled us to lower the body back onto the subframe and connect the mount for final alignment prior to welding. A new inner sill section was then welded in place.  Next we're going to install the right hand mounting box before then fitting the outer sills on both sides and do some floor patching.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 29 March, 2018, 04:22:20 PM
Almost ready to fit the left-side outer sill.  It was something of a horror story when we removed the old outer sill and wing sections.  The rusty bottom edges of the wings and sill had been beaten in and new metal welded over the top, with loads of lead filler all over the place.  Some sections were half an inch thick - so I'm looking forward to my new lightweight car! 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 29 March, 2018, 04:48:40 PM
cant recommend strongly enough of putting in a central membrane while all is open. huge increase in rigidity....


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 01 April, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
If squeamish please look away now.  Here's some of the metal and filler cut away from my Fulvia's sills and wings last week.  The rusty lower portions of the wing sections between the door and wheel arches had been bashed in and overlaid with new metal and lead filler.  Same with the sills, with a combination of lead and polyester filler. You can see the double layers of metal in the sill picture.  That bottom piece in the first picture measures about 20 by 30 centimetres but weighs a couple of kilos!  My car will be a lot lighter when I'm finished..... superleggera Fulvia.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 02 April, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
First sill strengthener fitted this morning.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 April, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
Did you make your own inner sill/strengthener or buy it in ?

Tempted to do the same when I get to doing the HF


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 02 April, 2018, 07:01:59 PM
Did you make your own inner sill/strengthener or buy it in ?

Tempted to do the same when I get to doing the HF

Simon - my welder fabricated it to his own design.  He does a lot of motorsport work so the lightening/strengthening holes were a reflex action for him!  Most of the applications I've seen in the blogsphere have been just flat plates.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 03 April, 2018, 08:03:40 AM
First sill strengthener fitted this morning.
Nice!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 03 April, 2018, 07:11:02 PM
Three more pictures of the sill strengtheners: (1) the holes being cut with a plasma cutter, (2) forming the flares around the holes, (c) the final insert ready for fitment.   


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 03 April, 2018, 08:07:13 PM
I like that !

Dog has a plasma cutter and I have a press, so should be possible here in rural France as well .....


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 April, 2018, 10:14:39 PM

A couple of times I've come across people with plasma cutters they don't use, a 1mm disk or an air saw being weapons of choice.  Cutting holes that neat is a great example of what a plasma does well... 

Was wondering how big a starrett hole saw went - five inches is the answer...  I expect "if it was me" I'd be trying to get a jigsaw to turn tight enough.

Looking at that press I wonder if it would punch those holes. Found tools at sensible prices for two inches.  That's got to be close?  For a 2in saw £10, £40 for the press tool.  The really big saw is £30.  I wonder how many jig saw blades I'd get through...

Turns out a tool NOT to use is a zip saw:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RotoZip-XB-MC1-Metal-Cutting-XBIT/dp/B000CEQEZ4/ref=sr_1_9?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1522793157&sr=1-9&keywords=rotozip+saw


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 04 April, 2018, 08:00:01 AM
Before Geoff got his plasma cutter he used to punch holes with this sort of kit - inexpensive if you're using them all the time and only doing one size, easy to use.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BGS-Screw-Hole-Punch-32-mm-For-Stainless-Steel-Sinks-Taps-Etc-3902/272251063721?epid=2255403975&hash=item3f636d8da9:g:7toAAOSwbPxXQdzG
I've never seen him using the press to form the edges though it is the easiest way. Whenever I've wanted to countersink a hole in steel or ally I've used a socket on one size, a suitably sized ball bearing. And a hammer. It works but isn't as precise as what Geoff achieves.
Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 04 April, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
Ah...so THAT'S the tool for the job...

You got me looking - and I found larger.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exact-30515-63-5mm-M63-Screw-Hole-Punch/152940124581?epid=574846079&hash=item239bf119a5:g:JPMAAOSwOhVZtbe8

"Facom" is the other brand I saw, but quite a bit more expensive and still with 63mm as the maximum.  For "money no object" they do a hydraulic driver.

"Q Max" go to 75mm.

At the budget end Frosts have a set, and also sell the flair tools:

https://www.frost.co.uk/set-of-4-knockout-punch-set-circular-punches.html

https://www.frost.co.uk/hole-flares.html

RS have a wide range. 

"Punch/flare" yeilds three part sets like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Allstar-Performance-11076-Punch-Flare-Tool-2-5-8-Diameter-Hole-Steel-in-Black/232685120558?epid=1437060428&hash=item362d1d2c2e:g:4g4AAOSwYRhamhF2


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 04 April, 2018, 08:58:01 PM
Just saw this on Ebay.  My wife thinks it is very appropriate!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: D5177_55A on 05 April, 2018, 05:09:10 PM
Blimey, with all the Fulviaís off the road, that guy must be a millionaire!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 April, 2018, 08:49:22 PM

Having browsed a few days ago the internet now throws similar back at me.  From their web page I like this supplier.  The "about" reads well and the opening times has "If you are looking to spend an obscene amount of money we may even open up on a Saturday morning or evening for a private viewing!"

https://www.stakesys.co.uk/hole-punches-hole-saws

Then there's the look-a-likey for a whole set and hydraulic puttler for the price of one punch...how do they do it...?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-Round-Hole-Punch-Kits-Metalworking-Hand-Tool-W-6-Dies-22-to-60mm/182710936112?epid=2209810059&hash=item2a8a6ba230:g:5wYAAOSwQwBZi~Z2

I still think the "if it was me" would be a hole saw, a hammer, and a bit of pipe, but interesting to see what's out there and how its done properly.  The stakesys write up on the flares was interesting - if you like that sort of thing :)   "Aircraft flares and automotive flares Ė whatís the difference?"

https://www.stakesys.co.uk/stakesy-s-sheet-metal-hole-flares


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 07 April, 2018, 09:08:12 PM
Left side almost finished.  Just some fettling to the rear wheel arch.  So that's a new subframe mounting box, half inner sill, two floor patches, sill strengthener, outer sill, and quarter wing sections all fitted, as well as patching to the inner wheel arches. Take a look at the thickness of the lead filler in the first picture....... that necessitated removing more of the wing than was originally thought necessary.

Now to the right side!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 07 April, 2018, 09:27:04 PM
Then there's the look-a-likey for a whole set and hydraulic puttler for the price of one punch...how do they do it...?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-Round-Hole-Punch-Kits-Metalworking-Hand-Tool-W-6-Dies-22-to-60mm/182710936112?epid=2209810059&hash=item2a8a6ba230:g:5wYAAOSwQwBZi~Z2


Cheap tools from China. I'm not saying the quality is bad but you may have to wait a while for them to arrive and will have problems with warranty claims... As with anything on eBay, check out the sellers feedback rating, use a credit card through PayPal so you're covered for non delivery and don't order if you're at all suspicious or need the goods quick. Also check out the item using the same description, there are sellers out there using multiple names that you can spot by their standard feedback comments, especially on negative feedbacks.
Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 08 April, 2018, 06:22:31 PM
There might be enough lead to weigh in at the local scrappy and pay for the restoration. ;D


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 13 April, 2018, 05:02:11 PM
My welding guy also builds and sells high-end racing simulators, so I got to drive the Col de Turini in a Fulvia while I was there today.  My car looked on enviously (or perhaps dreading the day when I get behind the wheel of it!)


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 13 April, 2018, 07:04:40 PM
My welding guy also builds and sells high-end racing simulators, so I got to drive the Col de Turini in a Fulvia while I was there today.  My car looked on enviously (or perhaps dreading the day when I get behind the wheel of it!)
I have driven CdT in my white HF with Fulvia friends on the 50th Anniversario rally its worth a go as we went up in semi darkness due to various problems. Stayed the night at the top then went down the other side in the morning sounding glorious on the multiple Fulvia overruns!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: fay66 on 13 April, 2018, 11:03:56 PM
My welding guy also builds and sells high-end racing simulators, so I got to drive the Col de Turini in a Fulvia while I was there today.  My car looked on enviously (or perhaps dreading the day when I get behind the wheel of it!)
I have driven CdT in my white HF with Fulvia friends on the 50th Anniversario rally its worth a go as we went up in semi darkness due to various problems. Stayed the night at the top then went down the other side in the morning sounding glorious on the multiple Fulvia overruns!
It was glorious and never to be forgotten, not sure which was more exciting going up in the total darkness in my case, or batting down the other side popping and banging on the overrun in the daylight😆
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 14 April, 2018, 01:22:26 PM
My welding guy also builds and sells high-end racing simulators, so I got to drive the Col de Turini in a Fulvia while I was there today.  My car looked on enviously (or perhaps dreading the day when I get behind the wheel of it!)

Did you try it with the Virtual Reality goggles Norm? I see Geoff in the background fixing another alloy wheel - probably another German cheese one..


I spotted this on eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-FULVIA-COUPE-BREAKING-SERIES-2-LISTING-FOR-A-SET-OF-WHEEL-NUTS/152949496138?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49131%26meid%3Dc61f2a318c3e47aeb6b0ff4494e6c279%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D232732693756%26itm%3D152949496138&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Might be worth asking what state the seat hinge chrome is in?

Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 15 April, 2018, 09:16:34 PM
No Guy - I didn't try it with the VR goggles, maybe next time.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 15 April, 2018, 09:24:54 PM

I am struggling to determine the shape of the trailing edges of the doors.  Mine are badly corroded, with metal missing.  The first picture below shows the right hand door.  Alongside I've put a sketch where I've filled in with shading what I think the correct outline should be. The second picture shows the left door.  Does anybody have any pictures by any chance of door tops without trim that I could use a guide?   I'm particularly concerned to get the top edge of the door jamb (if that is the right terminology) correct.  The front and back surfaces seem more obvious.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 16 April, 2018, 07:52:54 PM
I don't know if these help at all. They are alloy doors but may be similar.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 April, 2018, 08:54:03 PM
Thanks Frank.  I would assume that the top edge profile is the same on alloy and steel doors as the trim is interchangeable.  If these are doors in your possession, rather than reference photos from your files, would it be possible for you to take a couple of close-up pictures of the trailing edges - similar views to those I included in my post?


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 April, 2018, 07:01:45 AM
If not, I can send some pictures later in the week when we get back from Spain


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 17 April, 2018, 05:43:11 PM
Sorry Norman, they are just part of my hoard of pictures culled from the internet on the basis that they may be of use to someone some day.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 17 April, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
OK Frank - i suspected the pictures might be from your files.  I too keep a large number of reference images!

Simon - that would be great if you could provide some images.  There's no hurry as I'm off to Spain tomorrow for 6 weeks so work on my rebuild is suspended.  I've spent the last few days refurbishing parts from the 12 boxes that contain most of my Fulvia - less body, subframe  and engine.  I'm finding the work quite enjoyable - not tedious as I'd expected.  Thanks for your tip about using phosphoric acid as rust remover.  It's extremely effective.  I have a row of 6 jars and a couple of trays with parts soaking in readiness for wire brushing and final fettling before painting.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 25 April, 2018, 09:00:47 PM
The last job I was doing before heading for Spain was tidying up the engine bay and rear side of the front valance.  A lot of wire brushing and sanding/grinding, then residual rust treatment, priming and painting.  Here's some shots of progress on the inside of the front valance that I'm quite pleased with.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 April, 2018, 08:52:31 AM
That's good work with the engine in situ. Looks like knuckle grazing work. Suffrage looks good too. That should have read subframe. I'm beginning to think my phone is an Enigma machine.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 May, 2018, 07:13:24 PM
As promised, pictures of the door edge - let me know if you want more or better quality .....

Great job with the valance - especially with the engine in place, difficult to do !


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 03 May, 2018, 08:50:01 PM
Great - thanks Simon. Thatís exactly what I was looking for!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 10 May, 2018, 12:51:24 PM
Seat hinges - still looking for any decent ones Norman?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-seat-guide-USED-Lancia-Fulvia-Coupe/173311052911?hash=item285a24cc6f:g:ngQAAOSwwbdWINFe

One day I'll find some cheap ones!

Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: lancialulu on 10 May, 2018, 01:06:01 PM
single seat fulvia!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 10 May, 2018, 06:10:13 PM
Seat hinges - still looking for any decent ones Norman?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-seat-guide-USED-Lancia-Fulvia-Coupe/173311052911?hash=item285a24cc6f:g:ngQAAOSwwbdWINFe

One day I'll find some cheap ones!

Guy


Tricky decisions at every point Guy!
I'm reluctant to splash out this sort of money for a pair when it's actually only half of one pair that is badly pitted.  Will continue to ponder this as I continue work on the body.  Dismantling and getting the one arm chromed may still be best option.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 10 May, 2018, 06:15:08 PM
Like Simon with his HF, Iíve been tidying up the engine bay on my car.  I've been fortunate that my welder has been happy for me to work on my car while in his workshop.  I imagine that's rare but we are both Lancia and motor racing enthusiasts so spend a lot of time sharing stories.  When I get back from Spain in a monthís time Iíll continue with this engine bay tidying.  Iíve been getting rid of all rust then painting with smooth white Hammerite Direct-to-Rust paint to catch any residual rust that Iíve missed.  The colour is not that far off Bianco Saratoga but my intention is to later prime and paint over the Hammerite with body colour.

The first picture below shows an area that Iíve worked on - rear horizontal surface plus part of the rear of the dashboard/bulkhead.  To make it easier to work on the rest of the horizontal surfaces I will remove the chassis plates - assuming that it will be easy to re-rivet them back on. I bought a riveter but (like most of the tools I've bought) have never used one before so will practice first!

Iíd also like to remove the windscreen wipers and motor to improve access.   Are there any hints/tips for doing this?  I read somewhere that when the rubber-insulated mounts in the engine bay are removed (bolted through to footwell) the wiper mechanism can be withdrawn without dismantling the linkages.  That is of course having first unfastened the bases to which the wiper arms are attached.  Should these bases simply pull free from above after the nuts are removed - shown in second picture?

As always, any hints and tips will be gratefully received.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: davidwheeler on 10 May, 2018, 08:18:33 PM
They do indeed but then it can be a fearful struggle to extract them.  You may well find it easier to undo the connecting link - it should be quite easy to unclip.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 May, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
I have recently removed the wiper mechanism and taken it to pieces, so will take some photos over the weekend. It was a pain to remove and I am wondering how best to put it back now that I have painted under the bonnet.

I may try and rebuild it in situ ....... or maybe not !



Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 May, 2018, 07:25:32 AM

Simon - need "an apprentice" with small hands and slim arms...? 


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 May, 2018, 05:07:39 PM
Iím just looking ahead to when I re-fit the interior trim to my car later this year year.  I have a question regarding the chrome-finish strips near the bottom of each door card.  They are part reference number 49 in TAV.  Firstly, does anybody know how to remove them?  I donít want to risk damaging them but there are no fittings shown in TAV, and there are no fastenings visible on the rear of the door card so it looks like they may be attached to the vinyl rather than to the card behind it.  Secondly, has anybody ever had them re-chromed?  The strip on one side of my car is peeling badly - see picture below - exposing the pinkish coloured (plastic?) sub structure.  On the other door the chrome finish is missing completely.  The re-trimmed door cards that I have bought do not have this chromed strip, and looking at reference pictures in my library it seems like many people omit them when re-trimming.  Just wondering whatís the best approach.    


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 May, 2018, 07:32:33 PM
David - just spotted this one !

Too late on this occasion but there is always something to do .... so keep checking Ryanair !

Re wiper mechanism, I have refitted mine and will update the thread with pictures, but I did put it back bit at a time without damaging the new paint.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 27 May, 2018, 11:41:45 AM
My welder has made more progress on the car.  He is now (in my absence) working on the right side.  A section of the front floorpan which was badly corroded has been cut away and a new panel, sourced from David Ashworth, has been welded in place.  A new subframe mount has been fitted - shown in the last picture with a reference plate still tagged in place to ensure correct positioning.  That will now be removed and the inner sill built up before fitting the sill strengthening plate and outer sill.

Simon - thanks for the information on windscreen wiper removal and fitment.

All - any thoughts on door card trim? See my question and photographs above.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: Scott on 28 May, 2018, 06:45:32 AM
Re. door cards:
Those chrome strips do indeed seem to have been glued in situ.
If it is a small area that needs patching then you could consider some chrome foil. Search for something like 'chrome detailing foil tape' online. Using a scalpel to cut out either side of the offending area to create a rectangle and then by putting in a replacement rectangle you should be able to affect a good, and near invisible, repair (assuming the tape has the same shininess of course!).

Re. windscreen wipers:
Are everyone's wipers as slow as mine?! I can't believe this is by design but it's how it's always been! I would be interested to hear if the lethargy is general or if I need to exchange/uprate my motor etc. I usually use rain-x if venturing out and the weather is looking iffy but I don't really like this stuff as it leaves a slightly opaque film on the glass so would rather do something about the wipers if I can!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: fay66 on 28 May, 2018, 08:25:37 AM
Just a thought but when I worked for Vauxhall many years ago starting in the early 1960, I seem to remember the chrome strips having clenching teeth that attached them only to the back of the material, there was then a layer of padding between this and the board, the material was then electrically welded to the board, turned over and the edges of the material stapled to the back of the board.
Brian 8)
8227


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: eog on 28 May, 2018, 02:58:59 PM
Re your lower door card chrome trim, just looking at a Lotus Elan (1960/70) front bumper.
The insert bumper to body may do the trick.
Not certain if I can post link but here goes
 https://paulmattysportscars.co.uk/product/elan-front-bumper-trim/


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 29 May, 2018, 07:22:12 AM
Thanks for the responses regarding the door card trim:

Scott - Iíve bought some chrome wrap and will have a go at covering them.  I wonít try patching but rather will cover the entire strip, then judge whether they look good enough to be used or whether I should just omit the strips altogether.

Brian - I was thinking along the same lines about the fastening method.  I might try removing the vinyl cover from one of my old door cards to see whatís visible at the back.

Maurice - thanks for the suggestion. Iíll take a look.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 29 May, 2018, 05:55:12 PM
The Elan part looks like an aluminium extrusion to me so would not be what is needed. Covering in chrome foil sounds the best approach but I would be tempted to strip all the old foil off before recovering. It is rather unforgiving of blemishes in the base material.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 01 June, 2018, 06:21:40 PM
Thanks for the advice Frank - will take that on board.

Work has continued on the right side of my car.  The old sill has been cut away exposing the considerable rust underneath.  The new driver floor-pan is now in place as is the subframe mounting box, and a new section of metal has been welded in place to replace the section of the floor under the rear portion of the inner sill.  A strengthening plate, same as that installed on the left side of the car, has been welded in place and the new outer sill has been fitted.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 June, 2018, 06:24:59 PM
On a small and very pedantic note, your car is being worked on by your "weldor" while you are away. He is using a "welder". Even spell check doesn't recognise "weldor" though.



Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 01 June, 2018, 06:31:27 PM
I mentioned in a previous post that I was concerned that the right rear driver-side wheel arch flare looked incorrect, and that I had bought a new wheel arch (from David Ashworth) to replace it.  Cutting away the old wheel arch revealed about 12mm of lead filler topped by about 7mm of plastic filler - see pictures below. That has all been cut away and the new wheel arch fitted.  The other 3 arches all seem ok.  I'm getting close to final paint prep now.  The only remaining welding tasks are sorting out the rear edges of the doors, and replacing the jacking points.  I'm pleased with progress!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 01 June, 2018, 06:42:05 PM
On a small and very pedantic note, your car is being worked on by your "weldor" while you are away. He is using a "welder". Even spell check doesn't recognise "weldor" though.

Interesting Frank.  I've never seen the word "weldor".  Wikipedia says: "A welder or lit operator is a tradesperson who specializes in fusing materials together. The term welder refers to the operator, the machine is referred to as the welding power supply".




Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 June, 2018, 06:55:02 PM
"Weldor" seems to have fallen out of use but I always remember an admonishment in an old technical book, weldor as in operator. I'll get back in my little box now.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: fay66 on 02 June, 2018, 01:04:10 AM
Norman,
She should be about 5mph faster with that lot removed!
 Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 03 June, 2018, 06:49:45 PM
Norman,
She should be about 5mph faster with that lot removed!
 Brian
8227  8)

And more economical Brian.  As somebody said earlier: Fulvia Superleggera!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: eog on 13 June, 2018, 09:47:37 PM
Sorry to go backwards to door card trim but have just found this
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/self-adhesive-trims
as I was looking for new trim for lower gear lever centre console trim
 https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/brushed-stainless-effect-plastic-u-edge-trim-12mm-x-5mm-per-metre.
Will let you get on with your work now!
Maurice


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: fay66 on 14 June, 2018, 06:47:01 AM
Sorry to go backwards to door card trim but have just found this
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/self-adhesive-trims
as I was looking for new trim for lower gear lever centre console trim
 https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/brushed-stainless-effect-plastic-u-edge-trim-12mm-x-5mm-per-metre.
Will let you get on with your work now!
Maurice
Thanks Maurice,
Very interesting.
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 14 June, 2018, 06:21:46 PM
Thanks for your response on the door cards Maurice - there are some nice looking trims on that website but none that would match the factory fit item. I have pretty much decided to move forward without the chrome trims.  I tried removing the vinyl cover from the backing board on one of my old door cards to see how the trims were attached but everything seemed to be well glued inside and I don't really want to sacrifice a decent door card in what might prove a hopeless quest!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 14 June, 2018, 06:34:06 PM
Welding work is now almost complete - just a couple of jobs to finish off tomorrow and I'll hopefully then be heading for paint.  A painter on the same industrial development has looked over the car and I'm waiting for a quote from him.  He comes strongly recommended by my Integrale-owning welder who has used his services a number of times.  Jobs completed this week included some small patching to corroded spots on the doors, windscreen surround and lower edge of front valance.  The corroded rear ends of the door tops have been made good - see pictures below.  Finally, four new jacking points have been fabricated from heavy gauge metal strip and have been welded in place behind the new sill flanges.  The fourth picture below shows the outline shape after plasma-cutting and ready for cut-off.   While the welder has been weaving his magic I've continued with the refurbishment of the engine bay.  The driver-side is shown below, with chassis plates temporarily removed.  I should be able to bring the passenger side up to the same level tomorrow.    


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 June, 2018, 06:01:22 PM
Final welding completed this morning: flange under front valance straightened and patched, rear weld flange trimmed, and some other fettling.  Now ready for paint preparation and paint.  Waiting (with baited breath) for quote from paint shop!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 June, 2018, 06:27:27 PM
Exciting !

Hope the paint quote doesn't spoil your weekend .....


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: jmspear on 17 June, 2018, 08:56:55 PM
Off topic for Lancia, my HF 1600 doesn't need painting, but I will be getting my alfasud sprint painted when I have finished all my welding (a lot of welding as its an alfasud) so am really interested in what your quote looks like (for budgeting purposes) I would really appreciate it if you let me know how much as albeit a different car, the level of work will be very similar. You can pm if you prefer. Many thanks John


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 17 June, 2018, 09:54:52 PM
I've pm'd you John.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: SanRemo78 on 19 June, 2018, 09:22:20 PM
Another seat option for those hinges Norm?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-FULVIA-COUPE-SEATS/273309028611?hash=item3fa27cd103:g:TCoAAOSwWw1a8bke
Guy


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 19 June, 2018, 09:39:45 PM
Thanks Guy - I'll take a look.


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: nthomas1 on 19 June, 2018, 09:42:37 PM
I started cleaning up the window runners and quarter lights today.  Iíve removed the old quarter light seals as I have new ones on order.  I damaged the original ones while drilling out the three bolts that secured the bottom edge of the quarter light frames to the top of the doors.  The bolts had rusted solid both sides and I had to drill down through the small openings in the lower edge of the seals - quite a tricky thing to do and with inevitable damage.  The seals are a bit ropey in other areas so it will be good to fit new ones.   Iíve also ordered replacements for all of the u-channel  seals and scraper seals.

The two rear window glass runners are in poor condition at their bottom ends.  Rust is so bad that the bracket of one has come adrift, and it is not possible on either runner to discern what the actual profile of the end of the runner should be (square, or angled like the other end), and I canít tell how long the runners should be overall. I will make up a couple of short matching u-shaped sections and have them welded in place once I know the dimensions.  If anybody can help with a photograph that shows the profile, and can provide the overall length (see my picture below) Iíd be very grateful.

The other problem I encountered is that one of the long forward runners has been welded at some stage, and shows very poor workmanship with globs of weld.  The build-up is such that the correct channel seal will not fit.  A previous owner had replaced the top half of the length of seal with a non-original much shallower seal that was a very poor fit.  Iíll see how much of the build-up I can grind off while still retaining enough strength.  Iím guessing a replacement part would be hard to find.

Itís good to be working on the refurbishment of my boxes of parts now that welding on the body and closures is complete!


Title: Re: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 June, 2018, 10:18:55 AM

Am enjoying the archaeology.

Grinding the blobby weld - to my mind that's not something to fret over.  Either you'll be able to grind enough away for a seal to fit, or it falls apart and needs welding again.  Perhaps that job includes cutting a bit out and letting some new metal in.   Perhaps even if able to grind enough away I'd give it a good wiggle to be sure its still strong.

Are you a "keep everything possible" person or looking to "source better bits"?

As an aside here's a recent example of conservation.  Not sure if they bottled the air out the tyres to re-use but I bet they thought about it.

http://www.julianparkerltd.uk/the-1928-fabric-bodied-austin-7/

http://www.julianparkerltd.uk

https://www.facebook.com/JulianParkerLimited/