Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: sparehead3 on 18 October, 2016, 11:37:46 AM



Title: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 18 October, 2016, 11:37:46 AM
Hi

Last week I happened to have a ride in Tesla ( Taxi from Schiphol ). It was a bit of a game changer ride really , I've never wanted an electric car before but this was really nice, super fast and looks good. By super fast, I mean it was or felt like integrale fast ( I see the 0-60 is 2.5 seconds on the website ) and seemed to be just continuous smooth acceleration ( as you'd expect from 4WD electric ).

This doesn't mean I'm going to buy one , at least not now and not a new one , but I can see that when my car is next changed ( the daily ) then it would be a consideration whereas before it wasn't.

*No thought has been given to costs, saving the planet, maintenance, etc - just : "I want one of these" ( which with modern cars is very very few and far between )

Anyone else any experience of Electric ?

 


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 18 October, 2016, 12:17:50 PM
Steve, will only ever consider an electrical "appliance" when I have no other choice........wheres the market for classic washing machines, hair dryers, fridges........

Plus its still open to debate as to how green they are, do you pollute remotely at electricity generation point or at point of usage? Not even considering the rest of the supposed very flawed arguments.

Plus the small point of when they measured pollution levels of petrol vs electric vehicles on the street ( ie real world)  that pollution was significantly higher due a simple issue......the heavier electric powered vehicle chucking up the dust/micro dust already on the road surface into the atmosphere!


P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 October, 2016, 02:26:51 PM

I agree that they have reached the "object of desire" stage.  Its the one car I enjoy spotting, fairly often in London. So far I've only seen the people carrier on the road once: on the M40 just outside the M25.

At Bluewater they have a shop with a bare chassis to pore over.

http://www.bluewater.co.uk/stores/tesla

Once upon a time given the chance to "have any car for a day" it would have been a shouty supercar, right now it would be to try a Tesla...and here's where I'd go to do it...

https://www.evrent.co.uk/

Having just looked them up again on Google this one also popped up:

http://www.white-car.co.uk/

Would anyone here be brave enough to sit there while the computer did the driving?  I struggle with cruise control.

David


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: the.cern on 18 October, 2016, 02:27:04 PM
Paul, my youngest son has just taken delivery of a new BMW i3. To quote Steve, it's a bit of a game changer!! It is something that, at this stage of electric car development, I thought would be little more than a gimmick with poor passenger experience, limited range and all sorts of other problems. However, it has good, smooth acceleration, minimal noise and is extremely comfortable. He has driven to Oxford and back in the day with a FREE re-charge at the MINI factory and said that it was an enjoyable relaxed drive. Typically his fuel cost is 2p/mile!!! All in all it is astonishing!!!! He recognises that he has yet to drive it in winter with lights, heater, etc etc in use, but so far it exceeds his expectation and he is delighted with it!!

If there is an interest, I will keep the thread up-dated!!

                                            Andy


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 October, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
The Model X is the one "in store" at Bluewater at the moment with the "Falcon Wing" doors.  Interesting how Tesla are so understated while BMW have gone "car of the future" with the styling.  I see a few of the BMW electric supercar about and an increasing number of the family wagons.  There's also an electric VW - I think its called the "E-Up" - which is increasingly common. 

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/modelx


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 18 October, 2016, 05:44:45 PM
Those Tesla things are just a bit common on the roads today, what you really need is an electric car produced by one of the great Italian styling houses, famed for its aggressive and quirky products.......... The Zagato Zele.
My friend at European Classic Cars has one for sale at the moment, practical it isn't, the range and top speed are just to low, but for a quick buzz around his yard it was great fun!

http://www.europeanclassiccars.co.uk/cars_19.html


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Jai Sharma on 18 October, 2016, 06:12:48 PM
I too went in one from Schipol, and was impressed. They are a good option although really pricey at the moment. The only downside is that I thought the interior was a bit too obviously skimmed down, perhaps weight was an important consideration given the weight of all those batteries.
But I like the look of them and they certainly go well enough.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 18 October, 2016, 09:42:14 PM
Yeah, I'm not looking at this with my 'eco' head , just with my 'desire' head - I was surprised and I think it's a game changer. If it allowed me to commute and have the classic for the weekend then that's great :)

I didn't look much at the interior as it was dark - but the console was pretty techy - as you'd expect.

But I think the test will be what we think in 10 years time when we look back on this thread.

... and as this is innovation, what would Lancia be doing with this ? Would it be at the forefront ? or should I not go there ... :)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: bobhenry999 on 18 October, 2016, 10:26:12 PM
Steve,

The power to re-charge that car had to be created at a power station, which was almost certainly powered by oil, gas or even coal, so it doesn`t solve the problem of pollution, it just moves it elsewhere.

Besides which, as you are in the LMC, you obviously must appreciate "Proper" cars, and know that these electric things will never be able to replicate the noise, sound and smell of a real car.

I for one, can`t wait for this fascination for electric cars to go away for good !


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 19 October, 2016, 09:50:35 AM
I have a feeling they won't. Or perhaps something like hydrogen will take over the mantle. I used to sneer at the poor quality of digital cameras when they first appeared - you could never replace film for quality. Now I can't even imagine the stone age concept of not seeing what you've just shot, then take it to Boots, then wait a week, then see how they've turned all those blue holiday skies to a uniform grey. Don't get me wrong, I love my rorty little Fulvia and flicking up and down the gears through the corners. But I often ask myself, what will eventually happen to all those thousands of classics that are lovingly restored when they are seen as antisocial or in time petrol stations start to disappear? It will happen. Big changes happen in society from one decade to the next. Look at the attitudes to smoking and drink/driving which were very relaxed once upon a time. I always imagine a child of the future looking at my Fulvia and saying 'So you had to adjust the valve gaps, change the spark plugs, check the water and chuck all the oil away every 4500 miles and fit a new filter?' It will be as alien as putting a TGV driver on the footplate of the Flying Scotsman.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Neil on 19 October, 2016, 11:29:53 AM
Interesting, but at least the Flying Scotsman and other steam trains are still running in small number in the UK, lets hope many Fulvias are when they get to 80+ years.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 19 October, 2016, 12:02:39 PM
@Stanley : Yep that's my take on it.

Here's another thought : if we get autonomous cars in the future then people won't bother to learn to drive and won't have the passion for cars that exists today. We could be looking at the last generation where at 17 you aspire to driving ...

I have just bought a record player though :) quite nice listening to old albums again ...


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 19 October, 2016, 01:38:16 PM
Interesting, but at least the Flying Scotsman and other steam trains are still running in small number in the UK, lets hope many Fulvias are when they get to 80+ years.

I didn't want to ramble on too long in my post but possibly that's where it will end up for cars (hopefully not for a long time). Instead of 'steam days' I think we will drive to places like Silverstone in our hydrogen cars for 'petrol days' to wallow in the smells and sounds of classic cars.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: nthomas1 on 19 October, 2016, 09:00:38 PM
I read an interesting article a while back that postulated that the time will come, in the not too far distant future, when electric motors and batteries have developed to such a stage (efficiency, size and price) that somebody will offer a diy-install package that can be retro-fitted to existing cars.  The article went as far as identifying some classic cars with "problem" engines that would be given a new lease of life with this approach.  The only one I can recall the article mentioning was the Triumph Stag. I wonder what a Fulvia Coupe would run like with such a power plant, and with thin lithium batteries under the back seat and in the boot?   Heaven forbid I hear you all say and I'm inclined to agree, but it may provide a way forward when/if petrol burning engines are ever banned completely.  Not a good solution for me though as I have no electricity in my garage for re-charging!   


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 20 October, 2016, 09:55:00 AM
I'm also sure you will be able to download a Gr.4 engine soundtrack too so that you're Fulvia isn't whining along like a toy car.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 20 October, 2016, 11:44:30 AM
Let's go further, you just take your Fulvia along to a local 3d print shop who produce an exact copy of the shell which has an electric motor in it instead :)

Then, you can drive the electric Fulvia as an every day car and keep the original for the weekends.

Maybe the club just creates some 'pool' electric Lancias and they self drive between members so we can have a go in each model :)



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: dannels on 20 October, 2016, 01:17:18 PM
maybe you won't be driving it either - check out this Tesla video - its a brave new world that requires brave 'passengers'

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware-0


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Caracad on 30 October, 2016, 02:21:43 PM
The only modern car I currently desire is a BMW I3, and I don't even like BMWs.
Imagine if the I3 were the latest Lancia. It even has forward opening rear doors. A genuinely modern car just the way Lancia's used to be in their hay day.
Definitely the future, assuming the batteries get cheaper, by no means a certainty.

Tesla's stated aim is to make the combustion engine obsolete in the next 10 to 15 years.
I can definitely see the time when our old cars are considered anti social, with nowhere to buy petrol and banned from urban areas.

That's why I use my Fulvia and Gamma as much as possible while I still can. Just been into Bristol in the Fulvia and as compelling and efficient the electric motor is, electric cars will never be as engaging or fun.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: fay66 on 30 October, 2016, 11:12:37 PM
maybe you won't be driving it either - check out this Tesla video - its a brave new world that requires brave 'passengers'

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware-0

I fail to see the point in buying cars that you can't drive yourself, you might as well go by taxi or bus.
By the time this happens I'll have fallen off the perch or not worried be anyway!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Sebastien on 31 October, 2016, 02:37:25 PM
On the subject of the BMW i3:

I can only encourage all of you to take a test drive in an i3 at your BMW dealer. The experience is unique, for a city car.
And the dealer will be happy to let you drive it!

I have been driving my i3 now for 18 months, and have done 11000 kilometers with it, with no problem at all.
When I have friends coming to stay, we always take it for a drive, and all of them have been impressed.

Of course, it is not for everyone, and it is expensive. But if it fits your needs and your location (limited range, necessary to have a home charging station) it is a game changer!

PS: this does not mean I do not drive or enjoy my Lancias anymore!  :)



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 26 July, 2017, 11:55:32 AM
So here's today's story on no more new petrol/diesel cars by 2040 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

Also : The German car maker, BMW, is to build a fully electric version of the Mini in Oxford. The Government said the decision was a vote of confidence in its industrial strategy.

Thought for the day :

If someone can 3D print a 2L twin-cam shape but with an electric motor inside ( and a fuel tank shaped battery and a exhaust pipe loudspeaker ) then I'll be able to instantly convert the integrale and keep it going for ever :)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 July, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
Yes, I panicked a bit when I heard it. Then I realised that the sale of petrol and diesel will be banned in 23 years. Those sold in 23 years time will need fuel through their lifetimes so I figured me and my trusty Fulvia will pretty much disappear off the road together. Shame for the next generation who will never hear an Italian exhaust note in an Alpine tunnel. What will become not only of our cars, but of all those Bugatti 35's, 3 litre Bentleys etc, etc? Just family heirlooms to go and look at sometimes and make 'Brrm, brrm' noises? Will their be special fuel allowances at circuits for historic racing? Then there's the whole support industry of specialists who restore or make all those obscure bits. That's progress I suppose. The horse had its time, now the internal combustion engine has more or less run its course. It's provided some great entertainment along the way.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 July, 2017, 02:20:58 PM

At a hill climb someone told me that the dope fuel was cheaper than petrol - as he wasn't paying duty on it - I don't see fuel as a big issue.

Out in the lanes of Kent they'll still be old cars mixing it with the bikes and horses and walkers. 



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: williamcorke on 26 July, 2017, 02:42:04 PM
Lots of people across the UK and beyond still manage to run outmoded transport solutions that are both expensive and polluting... horses! What's more, horses pollute even when you're not driving or riding them.

And you can run a steam traction engine (coal/coke-fired boiler) etc. etc.

Our old cars will be similar in category, I would suspect.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 July, 2017, 04:00:02 PM
Strange thing is, for decades they haven't given a toss about 747's skimming peoples houses on the way to Heathrow. That noise and pollution is OK it seems for peoples health. Of course, the electricity to power the new generation of cars will come from the magic electricity tree (just next to the magic money tree).


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: ChrisA on 26 July, 2017, 04:37:04 PM
As a new member of the LMC I never imagined my first post would be about electric cars...

Don't panic stanley sweet - they are only proposing to ban the sale of new diesel/petrol vehicles, there will still be a massive fleet that will need fuel for at least a decade after 2040

A few other things to consider;

1. How many new Chinese nuclear stations will the country need to power the new fleets of vehicles? We are already close to maximum generating capacity now so brown outs will become commonplace if they don't start building additional generating and transmission capacity NOW.

2. Who is going to co-ordinate and fund the huge charging network required? God help the country if we rely on the govt, given their track record on choosing "winners and losers" regarding technology and getting things delivered on time or budget.

3. Who is going to fund the loss of tax revenue the govt currently gets from the oil sector? Can't imagine any political party will stomach a general tax increase, so expect the price of power to rise substantially in the future. - so don't expect electric transport to be "cheap" in the future.

23 days, let alone 23 years, is a long time in politics and given the speed of technical developments the future of transport is likely to be a hybrid (please excuse the pun) of gas, oil and electricity, probably using fuel cell technology rather than batteries.





Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 26 July, 2017, 04:45:39 PM
"Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!"

Up goes the cry from the classic/vintage/veteran owners, but I suspect the LMC, all other UK car clubs plus the FBHVC and similar European groups will state and if needs be negotiate on all our behalfs to ensure our cars are allowed to be used (no doubt with restrictions) ad infinitum. There will be a long transition period, I suspect 10-20 further years and as the percentage of all electric cars etc increase from 0.3% of the current market to 30/50/70% as we near 2040 the more oil will be left for all the combustion engines out there....:), ie it will never run out, so our sons, grand daughters can happily inherit the vehicular family heirlooms!


There are approx 1/2 million classics out there, about 75% are on the road, so compared to number of vehicles on the road, approx 37 million, its quite a small percentage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/classiccars/7398696/Classic-car-enthusiasts-profiled.html

So its a question of the owners and users of older cars not being treated like social pariahs just because we use/run and old vehicle. Hoping some sanity prevails as the years pass!


P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 28 July, 2017, 08:13:33 AM
I think the comments about relocating the pollution to fossil fuels power stations is wide of the mark as renewable electricity sources are rapidly on the rise. The. Inception of retro fitting electric power trains to classic cars is Interesting but I wonder if it will be possible to maintain the weight distribution to retain good handling characteristics. For me the real environmental question centres on production of sufficient lithium and copper.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 July, 2017, 05:58:30 PM
At a Greenwich "park it in the market" monthly meet there was a Moggie Minor with an electric conversion.  He kept the gearbox so he could use a smaller motor and he'd got the weight the same as the original full of fuel.  Some batteries up front, some under the boot floor. 

I just tried to find it and found loads - but not that one...



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 July, 2017, 05:59:53 PM

http://londonelectriccars.com/

...and photos from Greenwhich:

https://www.facebook.com/LondonElectricCars/


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 07 September, 2017, 11:49:42 AM
Here's some food for thought :

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/electric-e-type/36716

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 07 September, 2017, 09:04:59 PM
That looks like a worthwhile route for those wishing to travel in a classic but in circumstances where an internal combustion engine wouldn't be allowed. Most interesting.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 17 November, 2017, 01:38:56 PM
errrrmmm ! https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/tesla-roadster-quickest-car-in-the-world/37108

According to Tesla, the new model will crack 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds - and top 250mph flat out. By 4.2 seconds - the kind of time a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S takes to hit 60mph - the Roadster will be doing 100mph; nearly a second quicker than it took the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport when Autocar strapped a V-Box to it in 2011. The quoted standing quarter mile time is 8.8 seconds.

.... and it looks good too


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 November, 2017, 10:06:41 PM

That Tesla - ALL Teslas - are boggling.

Meanwhile....

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-americancars/singer-and-williams-unveil-500hp-964/37089


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 18 November, 2017, 07:50:21 AM
Can we see the term electrichead catching on?

Or instead of getting hands oily, got a few shocks whilst fettling the old electric motors?

The hum/whine of an electric car doesnt stir the soul.........

No more runs to petrol station for late night provisions, and get filled up at same time.

Plus of course they wont require a human input any more......

RIP Driving pleasure, involvement, satisfaction......


P

PS But then we'll save the planet....small reward!!!!


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: mikeC on 18 November, 2017, 09:13:06 AM
Electric vehicles wont save the planet - all they do is transfer the pollution from city streets to the countryside where the power stations are  ::)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: peterbaker on 18 November, 2017, 09:18:18 AM
As a proving exercise there was a Tesla that joined in our rally from Beijing to Shanghai. Its about range. The Tesla could not complete two separate 300 km sections, with only fifty kms left the crew were forced to divert to find a charging station. A 'supercharge allows 80% charge in fifty minutes, however a domestic charge, in China demanded 12 hours with associated risks. They may be fast, but the range at any cruising speed above 120 kph is incredibly limited.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Sebastien on 18 November, 2017, 12:18:31 PM
Nothing new under the sun!

During the 2017 Lancia Club France tour in the French and Swiss Jura we were received in a very special private car collection on lake Neuchatel.

The Detroit Electric car was taken out, and Joachim Griese and me even got a ride in it!
That company produced around 13'000 electric cars between 1907 and 1939, and we were told ladies enjoyed the easy driving and comfortable interior. We also found the comfort and driving experience fascinating! Only range, and price reduced sales in depression America, and led to a closure of the company.

Today, with the VW diesel scandal, and concerns about pollution in big cities, electric cars are coming again.

I am convinced that the electric car has a big future, especially in towns, and that governements, power generating utilities, and users will find ways to improve power distribution and storage, taking into account the big shift to renewable energy sources, including locally produced photovoltaic. As written before, I enjoy my fully electric BMW i3, and intend to keep driving it for a long time!


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: ColinMarr on 18 November, 2017, 03:40:23 PM
The BMW i3 that I recently had the pleasure to ride in was normally used in the Ďall electricí mode, but it was also fitted with a small petrol engine (with a small amount of fuel) tucked away somewhere that could be started up just to re-energise the batteries if needed. I was totally impressed with the car and its acceleration was amazing. 


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 November, 2017, 06:18:31 PM

With more renewable than coal in the UK now the "it just moves the pollution" argument isn't there as it was.  I also know more and more people who use a Tesla "like a normal car".  The range and recharge is ok for all it needs planning ahead.

I'd have an I3 or a Tesla in a heart beat - and am looking forward to electric vans, trucks, buses and everyone else in electric shopping cars for the noise and smell.  Its been great having smokey old scaff trucks off the streets and hybrid buses now the norm.

AS LONG AS WE CAN STILL USE OUR PETROL CARS AS WELL.

What worries me MUCH more is the lack of an MOT.  Makes me nervous that we'll have to follow a man with a red flag and have the route signed off six months ahead.  There's every chance that before long it will be laps of the Brooklands test track then back on the trailer.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 18 November, 2017, 07:06:52 PM
There are environmental benefits in electric cars in terms of power generation and use but I am left wondering about the environmental cost of mining the raw materials for the batteries and possible difficulties in end of life disposal of those batteries. I don't know the answers but we are rather good at embracing a particular technology then suffering unforeseen problems.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: mikeC on 18 November, 2017, 07:30:20 PM

With more renewable than coal in the UK now the "it just moves the pollution" argument isn't there as it was... 

You mean like the biomass wood pellets we are importing from Canada which produce more pollution than the coal they have replaced?


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: peterbaker on 18 November, 2017, 10:50:08 PM
Politically the west is moving away from oil to prevent being held to ransom, if the world goes electric where on earth do we get a freely available supply of lithium. Restriction equals taxation. Back to square one.  The biggest threat is: personal mobility, too many people, too few roads.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Tony Stephens on 19 November, 2017, 06:02:11 PM

With more renewable than coal in the UK now the "it just moves the pollution" argument isn't there as it was.  I also know more and more people who use a Tesla "like a normal car".  The range and recharge is ok for all it needs planning ahead.

I'd have an I3 or a Tesla in a heart beat - and am looking forward to electric vans, trucks, buses and everyone else in electric shopping cars for the noise and smell.  Its been great having smokey old scaff trucks off the streets and hybrid buses now the norm.

AS LONG AS WE CAN STILL USE OUR PETROL CARS AS WELL.

What worries me MUCH more is the lack of an MOT.  Makes me nervous that we'll have to follow a man with a red flag and have the route signed off six months ahead.  There's every chance that before long it will be laps of the Brooklands test track then back on the trailer.


 I agreewith David particularly about future use. It was a very bad day when the Historic taxation class was introduced,as this provides a useful separation in order to restrict usage.
Current politicians insist this is not in their agenda, and - even though cynical about politicians' promises - I believe them. But what about future politicians? They will not feel bound by their predecessors' commitments.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: peterbaker on 20 November, 2017, 07:01:35 PM
As long as politicians own and use classic cars, we have nothing to worry about. That's how the system works.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: bobhenry999 on 06 December, 2017, 10:45:20 PM
Guys,

All this is quite depressing, and completely ignoring the fact that cars are not "White goods" like fridges, freezers, washing machines etc.

We buy cars based on so many factors and choices, some of which are economy, looks, quality, and even ecological reasons, but that is ignoring the emotional factors, that we in the UK (And the LMC) are so heavily biased to.

We in this country love our cars, only second to our homes, that is why in my opinion, these electric washing machine cars won`t ever be the norm, and as has already been said in this post, they only move the pollution out of the towns, to where the fossil-fueled power station is located !

In the 1960`s and 70`s we were told that by the end of the Millennium we would all be travelling around in flying cars, but that hasn`t happened for obvious reasons !

So, until someone invents a battery that will allow a car to travel for 500+ miles before refuelling, as most modern diesels do, then I don`t see how electric cars can possibly be the future.

I live in East Anglia, and often travel to the North West of the Scottish Highlands, which is a distance of 650 miles. Even with the best Tesla model (£30,000+)  it would require re-charging in Yorkshire, and then again once into Scotland. So that means two overnight stays just to get to the further reaches of the UK, something which I can achieve in one day in my new Mercedes diesel.

In my humble opinion, electric cars are not the way to go. Maybe Hydrogen fuel will a possibility, but until then, we will have to stick with fossil-fueled cars, and long may it be so !

Anyway, that`s my rant over,

Bob


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 December, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
We will also need 44 ton trucks that can travel right across Europe as fast as they do now, dump a load, pick up a load and head straight back. You can't have a trip from Spain to Scotland taking 3 weeks.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Neil on 07 December, 2017, 12:09:45 PM
Unfortunately Brexit may add two days on such a truck journey when they arrive at channel with customer formalities... lets hope suitable charging points are installed at the channel tunnel and ferry ports for cars and trucks.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 07 December, 2017, 12:40:20 PM
But Tesla are working on battery swap outs ...

... and you were to buy the 'journey' to Scotland then it wouldn't matter if you changed cars at a service station

Electric or Hydrogen or Rail or Flying - doesn't really matter if I'm just buying the 'journey' ... if it's all smart and connected up then it can work it out what's the best way at the time ( like Google Navigator works out the best way for me to get home depending on the traffic as I leave the office )


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 December, 2017, 03:41:13 PM
You're quite right of course, but I think deep down we don't want to lose the intake noise of a pair of Webers or Dell'Ortos. Held in third gear. In an Alpine tunnel......

Now come on, we've all done it.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 07 December, 2017, 06:25:17 PM
I am sure electric cars will have their place and that place will expand as facilities and technology develop. In built up areas where journeys tend to be short and pollution is a more acute problem I am sure they will be a boon. However for longer journeys and in rural areas where electric infrastructure is likely to be as sparse as mobile phone coverage internal combustion engines look like continuing to be the best option. For recreational purposes those twin Webbers will win every time though.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: fay66 on 07 December, 2017, 07:31:34 PM
I'm pretty sure with the Tesla at least, there's a 15 minutes fast charge.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: peterbaker on 07 December, 2017, 08:17:15 PM
Fifty minute equals 80% itís the final 20% that takes the time.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: fay66 on 08 December, 2017, 06:18:15 AM
Fifty minute equals 80% itís the final 20% that takes the time.

A stop for something to eat and drink would probably take that long, so how much further would that 80% charge take you?
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 December, 2017, 10:46:24 AM

Ten years ago - £92,000 for a two seater with a 55 mile range (or 211 "official" miles at a squeak).

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-clarkson

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/tesla-vs-top-gear

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/on-demand/2017-11-28/the-grand-tour-amazon-tesla-jeremy-clarkson/

Looked back at that story after watching the new Grand Tour last night (both as childish and as epic as ever) with the electric supercar crash (and burn) that was in the headlines over the summer.  I must say the tech has really come on in ten years... 

I also had a ride in a friend's Passat GTE which is 150bhp of 1.4 turbo petrol with 50l of fuel vs the standard 66l.  The battery is under HALF the boot floor so there's still a big locker there.  The electric motor is 60bhp which is plenty with a published "all electric" range of 30 miles, obviously at a steady 10mph with the wind behind and heater off you'd do better and it could all be gone in a lap of a race circuit.

How does a journalist report fuel consumption?  "It depends..." is about the only possible response but they have a good go at it here.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/our-cars/volkswagen-passat-gte-estate-long-term-test-review-test-toughness


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 December, 2017, 11:03:40 AM

A couple of GTE reviews. 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/passat-estate/14-tsi-gte-advance-5dr-dsg/first-drive

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/passat-gte

My friend could have had a "normal big estate" as the weekend and holiday car and a small all-electric for his commute and family runabout but they can only park one car.  He got a big discount off the ticket price and the tax / finance side was too complex for me to follow.  I agree with the reviews that it is super smooth and quiet and manages all the transitions without you knowing.  The screen was in the "tell me what its doing" mode with a graphic showing the power flows in and out (regenerative braking) but with all that blank you'd not have know it was a hybrid at all, other than the spooky silence.

It ABSOLUTELY is "horses for courses" and this car will be in all-electric mode for the vast majority of trips and a greater proportion of miles.  For others 37mpg is not impressive, there's extra weight spoiling ride and handling and acceleration, its more expensive and complex.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 09 December, 2017, 11:19:03 AM
"More astonishingly, around 98 percent of all single-trip journeys were under 50 miles in length, with trips over 70 miles in length accounting for just one percent of all single-trip journeys.

The average single-trip distance? Just 5.95 miles. And while rural respondents naturally traveled further on average than their urban counterparts, 95 percent of all rural-based trips were still under 50 miles. "

The few stats above support the almost instanteous swop over to electric cars. Something like 1/2 the pollution caused by cars is during the warm up period, so benefiting the whole of the environment in one foul stroke, but the biggest polluters are lorries and buses I suspect!!!

P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 12 December, 2017, 07:13:51 PM
Budweiser have just ordered a fleet of 40 electric articulated lorries in the US.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/budweiser-orders-a-fleet-of-tesla-trucks/ar-BBGDNzi?li=AA8sb7&ocid=spartandhp


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 25 June, 2018, 11:35:48 AM
So, the Pike's Peak record has just fallen to an electric VW ... https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/vw-shatters-pikes-peak-record/38250

Not the full in car video yet but looks impressive

I guess, that being electric, altitude is not a problem ( ? )


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: peterbaker on 25 June, 2018, 09:39:50 PM
Government decisions have had an enormous impact on Jaguar Cars (Jaguar/Land-Rover) as they are currently locked in to 50% diesel production. Can they survive?   


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 26 June, 2018, 06:06:08 AM
Government decisions have had an enormous impact on Jaguar Cars (Jaguar/Land-Rover) as they are currently locked in to 50% diesel production. Can they survive?   

Despite their promise to go all electric, Volvo must be in a similar situation at present; huge diesel cars.....


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 26 June, 2018, 08:35:05 AM
As per S Times, so far the public are acting as Guinea pigs for the government and car makers, largely sold a pup to date!

P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 10 October, 2018, 10:56:18 AM
Why you have (probably) already bought your last car : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45786690

Here's some more food for thought ( it's now been 2 years since my ride in a Tesla )



Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 10 October, 2018, 11:58:34 AM
https://youtu.be/dKQPHC4JyAU

Not sure it's all smooth sailing for Tesla owners

P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: sparehead3 on 05 March, 2019, 02:04:47 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47418405

The world's fastest car street legal is now electric and italian .... 0 to 62mph < 2secs


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: bobhenry999 on 10 March, 2019, 09:53:47 PM
Yes, but can I drive  from my house near Colchester to Inverness (560 miles) without having to stop and re-charge it god knows how many times.

I can, and have done that journey a number of times with only a brief coffee/toilet break.
When someone can give me a car that can do 500-600 miles without having to re-charge, then I might think about it.

But that still doesn`t solve the problem of where all this fantastic electricity is going to come from,as there are currently over 30 million cars on our roads today, so how are we going to power these so called green cars ? I also live in a small village that doesn`t have street lighting or even gas, so where in the grand scheme of things will we be in the great electric car plan ??


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Cassino on 11 March, 2019, 12:31:52 PM
And how is the Government going to fill the coffers when carbon fuel is not consumed , and tax take is going to be almost zero, when we all drive electric?

2017/2018.....almost 28 Billion GBP (HMRC figures)

Ian


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: fay66 on 11 March, 2019, 01:25:54 PM
The Tesla can do over 300 miles on a charge and the quick charge can top up 80% in under 20 minutes, so that shouldn't create to many problems.
What no one ever seems to talk about as already mentioned, Where's all the power to come from? renewables certainly won't have the capacity.
How will people who have no drive way or possibly can't even park near a power supply cope?
Besides can you imagine the claims if pedestrians start falling over cables.
Vandals damaging the cable etc, someone stealing the equipment.
I could go on🙄
Brian
8227
 :o 8)


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 March, 2019, 02:38:02 PM

Electric clearly isn't for everyone, and its likely to remain that way a while, but here in SE london its amazing just how many ordinary looking VWs and Toyotas and Kias are making the same noises as the BMWs and Mercedes that ticked the "hybrid" box let alone the fleets of Prious and "look at me" Teslas and i3s.  It used to be unusual to spot a Tesla, must see one most times out now.   The Jaguar IPace is popular as well.

More and more buses are hybrid, don't see that many full electric.  More and more delivery vans are full electric.  Lots of the ZIP cars are electric now.

As for "where will the power come from" 30pct of electricity is now renewable, up from 10pct in 2012.  A way to go still but they're getting there.  I've been surprised to see fields in the fens given over to solar.  Just looked on wiki and the proportion from sustainable gas is a surprise, don't need the sun to shine or wind to blow for those ones at least.  Obviously storage of power is an issue, and inside an electric car is one place to put it, and am sure will be able to sell power back from car batteries.  On days when its just sat there why not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_Kingdom


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 11 March, 2019, 07:00:03 PM
There's a supplement with this months Classic and Sports Car, 5 pages long, listing companies who "electrify" classic cars, ranging from Morris Minors, MGBs and Beetles to Aston Martins and 911s.

I can mail it to you if you wish.

P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: frankxhv773t on 11 March, 2019, 07:13:23 PM
I have a friend who works in promotion of electric cars in London and we have come to the conclusion that some form of hydrogen fuel cell will probably be needed to make electric cars practical as the principle power source for cars.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 11 March, 2019, 09:05:52 PM
I've been driven in a Jaguar I-Pace - which was superb, with absolutely amazing and effortless acceleration.

I do wonder about the battery weight involved - energy density of batteries is poor compared with petrol, although the Tesla Model 3 seems to have pared down the overall weight of the car significantly - I don't know how. There are lots of issues about the fire safety of batteries in accidents and sources of, and recycling of battery materials.

I'm not sure that governments have joined up thinking about how to make everything electric and provide enough power, given the failure to push on with nuclear. Their record on encouraging diesel and then killing it is depressing.

I have no fear about how they will replace the lost revenue from road fuel - they'll soon be tracking us all and sending a bill each month.

As an aside - has anyone else watched the Formula E racing? GP is boring but formula E ten times worse, with what seem to be identical racers racing on a narrow circuit ( Hong Kong last weekend) with almost no way of overtaking except by punting your opponent up the stern. The wail of electric motors is like dozens of police sirens. Scalextric comes to mind!

The demise of the I.C. car is a depressing thought but they said that about the horse!

Mike


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Sebastien on 12 March, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
Regarding Hydrogen fuel cells: They certainly make more sense than batteries especially for HGVs. In Switzerland there has been a trial with Hydrogen fueled postal busses - they have done 1,3 Mio. km with 5 busses over 5 years. And Coop, a big retailer, has a trial with a big Hyundai delivery truck. In Swiss newspaper they write that Hyundai will put 1000 fuel cell HGVs on Swiss roads until 2023.

Of course these are just trials, and prices are high, but they help develop a promising technology - including also the production, storage and distribution of Hydrogen.

I have also seen one of the fuel cell Hyundai cars driving around Zurich.

For more information:
https://h2mobilitaet.ch/en/h2-mobility/


 


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Parisien on 12 March, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
Suspect we are in a VHS versus Betamax moment, and as hydrogen systems are improved, they may well leap frog the battery type vehicles as regards cost and usability, but it may well end up, hydrogen for 200 mile plus ranges and HGVs, battery for urban situations .

P


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:04:41 PM

The comment about horses - horses have not gone away, but we no longer have piles of poop and wee in the streets.  I love a petrol engine, and would be very reluctant to go electric even on the lawn mowers for all the strimmer has a battery, but as a resident of a London suburb and walking as much as I do the sooner mile after mile of stationary cars ticking over on petrol or diesel is replaced by mile after mile of stationary electric cars the better.

...of course I still want to drive MY petrol car... 

Electric robot mower?  Maybe. 

Electric robot taxi?  I'm more than comfortable with an electric robot DLR train and, while yet to be put to the test, I think I'd trust my life to one.  We have them round the O2 just down the road and Greenwich is likely to get them first so my chance might come fairly soon.

Electric car?  Open to it, but its yet to "add up" for us.

Back to horses, they are something I do see everyday as there's a big police stables down the road (and cycling watch out for "evidence") and every now and then I see the Royal Horse Artillery out en mass.  They've not been regulated off the roads, for all the economics have pushed the rag and bone man and brewery drays out, and generally they are "a treat to see" and treated with respect.  Hopefully classic cars will continue likewise.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:06:09 PM

Steam trains - a great treat to see one or go for a ride as a holiday treat, but I'd rather live next to an electric train line than have the pollution.


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:53:46 PM
I couldn't remember how long ago it was, and it was 2008 when "battery powered electric cars will soon die altogether" was the Top Gear review of the Tesla Roadster.  Electric has come a long way since then, for all its got a way to go yet and longer term may not be "the one" vs hydrogen or whatever else.

http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/12536/remember-when-top-gear-and-tesla-clashed-over-the-roadster


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: eog on 12 March, 2019, 08:45:31 PM
Or take to the air
https://blog.dronetrader.com/top-passenger-drones-helicopters-drone-taxis/


Title: Re: Electric Cars - Had a ride in Tesla taxi ...
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 12 March, 2019, 10:26:19 PM
The idea of personal transport for all by drone is a nightmare for the poor erks who remain on the ground - who fancies the idea of a three dimensional M25 above their house. :(

Mike