Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aprilia, Ardennes and Ardea => Topic started by: simonandjuliet on 06 July, 2016, 03:57:25 PM



Title: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 July, 2016, 03:57:25 PM
A few weeks ago I received an email from a friend in Toulouse who said that it was time to thin his fleet (largely Alfas) and would I be interested in his Aprilia Cabrio

Of course I was interested !

Shortly afterwards, Tim Heath and I (he was here on hols by chance) went to see the car. I was charmed, but then I'm an Aprilia person ......

To cut a long story short, I collected her today. I will start a proper post soon.

Thanks to Tim for being a "voice of sanity" (which I ignored), Noel for some identification pointers, Ade and James for their input

Basics: 1937 chassis with irs, body probably by a Swiss coachbuilder, 4 seats, suicide doors, originally 6V 1350cc but converted to 1500 , 12v

More soon .......


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Neil on 06 July, 2016, 04:03:56 PM
Another interesting challenge...  on a Paris plate is that correct?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 06 July, 2016, 04:15:26 PM
That is fabulous Simon, looking forward to all the trials, tribulations and ultimately bringing this one back to life!

Yup, Parisian plate.

P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 06 July, 2016, 06:41:32 PM
The words "insanely jealous" were the immediate response!!!! Fortunately I did not have to battle with my sanity ..... or is it insanity???

Good luck with the restoration. I am sure we can count on you to provide the usual high quality work accompanied by the usual high quality posts on a new thread!!

                             Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 July, 2016, 08:56:54 AM
Have you told Juliet? Or is it going to be a case of 'What? That old thing? You know I've had it for years!'. That's going to be gorgeous and you live in the right part of the world to enjoy it.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 July, 2016, 03:57:23 PM

There I was worried you'd get bored...

IRS not a live axle?   How many of the coach-builts were like that?

David


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 08 July, 2016, 08:33:50 AM
"Thanks to Tim for being a "voice of sanity" (which I ignored)".

2 points: 1 I was Juliet's emissary, and 2 - I was not against the idea just the costings which seem to have been reviewed accordingly!

So well done for getting it!

David - we found out during the"investigative period" that many of the S1 chassis had standard Aprilia rear axle set up, making it a lighter proposition thahan the Live axle chassis.....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 08 July, 2016, 09:29:36 AM
If this car is fundamentally sound (and I feel sure it is as  Simon would know) then I reckon it will be a lovely car to drive and use, particularly on fine evenings with the roof down. The larger engine is a bonus and 12v is helpful so all round a great buy.
The only other one I have ever examined had been restored cosmetically but actually not so well under the skin on closer examination and didn't seem to drive especially well. Maybe the body was flexing too much?
I am looking forward to reading about it being brought back to life.
Chris
 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sebastien on 08 July, 2016, 12:32:24 PM
Simon,
compliments for finding and acquiring such a nice restoration project! I am sure you will do an excellent job on it, and I look forward to your illustrated reports.

Here in Switzerland Urs Göldi has specialized in Aprilias, and has done quite a few of them. You might want to check his website, where many Aprilia restorations and parts are illustrated:
http://www.lancia-oldtimer.ch/index.php?class=DSPInterfaceAction&method=linkDocument&param0=CMSPortal&param1=CMSDefault&param2=9
For Aprilia parts, see:
http://www.lancia-oldtimer.ch/index.php?class=DSPInterfaceAction&method=linkDocument&param0=CMSPortal&param1=CMSDefault&param2=10
The Aprilia Viotti page has photos of suspension and engine details on 40 slides - pure mechanical porn... !




Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 08 July, 2016, 01:58:11 PM
It always intrigues me with cars of this age to think of what happened to them during the war. Was it stashed away? Was it requisitioned and used by an officer to visit his favourite Parisian restaurants? Do you have much history with it?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: ColinMarr on 09 July, 2016, 09:00:04 AM
Let's not forget that there is a least one very nice Aprilia PF Cabriolet in residence in the UK - photos attached.

Colin


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 09 July, 2016, 09:57:20 AM
That is beautiful .... a real inspiration for you Simon!!!!

Those headlights are quite something!!!

More photographs please Simon, I am sure you must a few!!!

                                  Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 July, 2016, 03:52:05 PM
Thanks everyone for your comments

I have had time over the last couple of days to carry out an inventory of all the bits and see what is missing - very, very little I am glad to say. Just the aluminium strip that goes between the wings and body, plus the half-bead for the running boards.

If anyone knows of a source of this trim which looks to be the same as standard Aprilia  ??

Overall the car looks very sound but I will need to inspect the sill repairs more closely when she is up on the ramp. I suspect that I will need to redo these properly

The biggest job will be the interior, there is enough to copy, but very little to keep. The roof doesn't sit quite flat when it is down which is either due to hard cloth not folding as it should or needing a slight mod when I redo it

The engine(s) are in bits, but all there bar a few nuts and bolts, but the front and rear axles have apparently been overhauled - but again needs to be stripped and checked

The previous owner of the car was an Italian gentleman, married to a German and living in Paris, so already we know that there is going to be some interesting history - but I know very little at the moment. I suspect I will save the "digging" for the long winter nights

There were a reasonable number of coachbuilt Aprilias, maybe as many as 7000 if you include those offered by Lancia as well. Of the (2)39 or 1st series chassis, Bruce Lyndsay (Lancia - 70 Years of Trailblazing) quotes 4350 being built. Obviously not all were cabriolets ! The first (239) and second (439) series chassis had IRS and only the later 5/6/7/8-39 chassis had the live axle

To satisfy Andy (!) here are a few more pictures ......



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 July, 2016, 03:54:27 PM
More ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 09 July, 2016, 04:14:20 PM
Very impressive Simon, just shows you what dry storage can do as regards keeping a car away from the tin worm.

I suspect for you and Dog, its a couple of weeks work, then a paint job!!!!!

All the very best with it!

P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 09 July, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Simon, that's a very elegant pf Aprilia, I especially like the curved rear and the lovely rear lights. Are the wheels original? 
For aluminium trim try https://www.completeautomobilist.com/categories/complete-automobilist-coachbuild-and-body-parts-aluminium-strip or http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 09 July, 2016, 10:11:01 PM
Thank you Simon for the great array of photographs. That really does look like a very special car. I think that whilst I agree re the curved rear and the rear lights, for me the highlight has to be the steering wheel, simply gorgeous!!!!!

                                Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 10 July, 2016, 05:22:44 PM
I'd be happy just owning the steering wheel. What a beautiful Art Deco gem.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 10 July, 2016, 11:35:15 PM
Simon,
What a magnificent find ;D

I note the internal door release knob appears to be the same shape as the single tail light, by design?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sarah Heath-Brook on 11 July, 2016, 01:54:02 PM
  Wow Simon! Hope to see this "in the flesh" tomorrow...  Tim hasn't mentioned it yet, since I arrived less than 24 hours ago, but I guess he was keeping it as a surprise for me  8) 

Sarah


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: josefewald on 13 July, 2016, 12:51:36 PM
Complimenti! This is an Aprilia convertible which kept most of the aesthetically pleasing aspects of the standard Aprilia berlina. It seems to me your car has the standard front grille, the standard headlamps, as well as a very nice treatment of rear and side body lines. Somehow most of the Aprilia convertibles look too baroque whereas this (I guess very) early 1st series car is very much the essence of Aprilia. Congratulations, I look forward to reading about your restoration efforts! Good luck! Best, Josef


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 13 July, 2016, 08:36:05 PM
That is gorgeous. No Lancisti with a soul could possibly resist it.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 July, 2016, 09:21:30 AM

Any thoughts on colour or two tone yet?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 19 July, 2016, 08:25:56 AM
Some 50 years ago I rescued a complete rear suspension and final drive from a cabrio in a scrapyard not far from Bristol.  A few months later the cwp in my sedan packed up and I swapped the whole thing over - it is still on the car.  Lower ratio cwp which gives better acceleration I guess at the expense of a somewhat busy engine at 70mph.  With my Nardi set up I am considering putting a higher ration sedan cwp (from Ben) on to see how it goes.   Alas, the reat f the rear suspension disappeared somewhere between Bath and Kendal (one was careless in those days).


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 July, 2016, 12:24:58 PM
David, interesting to hear what you say about final drives, I presume the higher (?) ratio (9:41 compared with 10:41) was to counter the increased weight of the final bodywork ?

General question - high/low ratio terminology ? - 9/41 = 4.56, 10:41 = 4.1 - so which is high/low ratio ?
So, for every 4.56 turns of the prop shaft the rear wheels will do one full turn if I understand correctly. 

Having said that, I think the early chassis cars are not that heavy - 650kgs vs 880 kgs for an early saloon and 950kgs for a 2nd series saloon. The later chassis are 670kgs. I will get mine weighed once it is finished for interest's sake

The chassis' gear ratios may be different as well , but I have read differing views on this

Re colours, not sure yet, but probably 2 tone. I am still researching original colour(s)

Another point, picked up by Ade, is that the bodywork is Pininfarina. I had some correspondence with a known authority who said:

"this car is a early Lancia Aprilia cabriolet, an officially catalogued model. It was built by Pininfarina but this company was subcontractor to Lancia for certain models, hence the lack of any PF badges"

In some ways, who made the bodywork is not too important, I agree with Josef, this bodywork retains the "aesthetically pleasing aspects of the standard Aprilia". What you cannot see from the photos to date is the lovely upward flare of the front wings compared to the much flatter profile of the saloon.

Planning to start taking the cabrio to pieces soon ........



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 July, 2016, 02:26:21 PM
A couple of pictures to show the different wing profiles of the cabrio and berline - horizontal stick to give a guide !

Now the Aprilia is off the ramp I will move her in


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - Dismantling starts
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 July, 2016, 05:50:04 PM
I guess that I'm not going to start a new thread .......

With the car up on the ramp I have had a really good look underneath - no nasty surprises which I am very happy about ! It doesn't mean that there is nothing to do, but it is nearly all flat plate with a couple of bends. The most difficult bit is the front of the chassis where the cross-member passes under the radiator.

Having attacked the floor with an angle grinder, there is plenty of the original to see how it was made.

Difficult to show until I cut out the offending patches, so please look at the diagram ! - the floor is a completely flat sandwich with cross pieces welded between the layers. The sides of the floorpan are made from a very heavy gauge S-section with the inner and lower floors welded to it.

I read an article in "The Motor" from 1936 that commented on the flat-floor arrangement

The outer cill and bodywork are then welded to this, with outriggers to add further support.

Once I can get photos I will post them, but I have bought the steel and new pipes for my oxy-acetyline, so Dog and I will attack the cills next week.

Plus, I dismantled a door panel, so as not to set light to it. Similarly, there is enough of the original to copy and return to an authentic look. The window winding mechanism is amazing .....





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 July, 2016, 07:54:20 AM
That window cog isn't going to wear out any time soon - look at the size of those teeth. Is there anywhere that you are able to see inside the floor sandwich to check the interior condition? From the diagram it looks as though you couldn't see all the way across if you removed a sill, you would have to look from front to back - is that right? Do the floor supports run all the way from front to back? I don't think I've ever seen a floor like this. You could use it as a long range fuel tank.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 29 July, 2016, 08:53:57 AM
You could also hide contraband in the floor cavity for smuggling! On one Registro Aurelia trip some years ago, a thoroughly respectable  Italian gentleman who shall remain nameless told me wonderful stories about smuggling cigarettes in a 2nd Series B20 which was considerably faster than the police cars of the day and so when chased, he was never caught!
Early B20s use a sprocket and bicycle chain window winding mechanism which is unbreakable and thoroughly over engineered in true Lancia fashion.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 29 July, 2016, 09:26:36 AM
That window cog isn't going to wear out any time soon - look at the size of those teeth. Is there anywhere that you are able to see inside the floor sandwich to check the interior condition? From the diagram it looks as though you couldn't see all the way across if you removed a sill, you would have to look from front to back - is that right? Do the floor supports run all the way from front to back? I don't think I've ever seen a floor like this. You could use it as a long range fuel tank.
[/quote
Stan
I would have thought that Simon would have one of these probes with a camera on the end, and if no suitable hole available would only need one smallish hole to be drilled rather that removing the sill.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: JohnMillham on 29 July, 2016, 10:50:42 AM
You could also hide contraband in the floor cavity for smuggling! On one Registro Aurelia trip some years ago, a thoroughly respectable  Italian gentleman who shall remain nameless told me wonderful stories about smuggling cigarettes in a 2nd Series B20 which was considerably faster than the police cars of the day and so when chased, he was never caught!
Early B20s use a sprocket and bicycle chain window winding mechanism which is unbreakable and thoroughly over engineered in true Lancia fashion.
. . . and you had to wind it a million times to raise or lower it!
Regards, John


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - Dismantling starts
Post by: Sebastien on 29 July, 2016, 03:06:44 PM

Plus, I dismantled a door panel, so as not to set light to it. Similarly, there is enough of the original to copy and return to an authentic look. The window winding mechanism is amazing .....


The mechanism looks exactly like the one in my Aurelia Pinin Farina cabriolet (1950). It screws inside the door panel.
I assume that Pinin Farina had developped a standard mechanism, which they tried to use in all their carbodies.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 29 July, 2016, 03:26:50 PM
It does look very similar ...... the plates have slightly different cutouts for the lock etc. The little, loose plate at the top locates the rollers that run along the glass

I am missing one of these if anyone can help ???


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sebastien on 29 July, 2016, 03:40:29 PM
This is the roller in the Aurelia cabriolet. We had one missing when we did the car many years ago.
Do you need only the roller, or the whole assembly?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 29 July, 2016, 08:46:21 PM
That window cog isn't going to wear out any time soon - look at the size of those teeth. Is there anywhere that you are able to see inside the floor sandwich to check the interior condition? From the diagram it looks as though you couldn't see all the way across if you removed a sill, you would have to look from front to back - is that right? Do the floor supports run all the way from front to back? I don't think I've ever seen a floor like this. You could use it as a long range fuel tank.
Stan
I would have thought that Simon would have one of these probes with a camera on the end, and if no suitable hole available would only need one smallish hole to be drilled rather that removing the sill.

Brian
8227 8)

I bought an endoscope, 8.1mm diameter if I remember correctly. Not as flexible or as controllable as I had hoped, but still very useful. I used it to view the box sections that frame the door opening on the Gussie to check for rust. It did the job admirably because I did not need to view every last bit, but just get an idea of the general condition ....... and the answer .... much better than expected. Not an answer that you get very often!!! I have also looked inside the sills which, of course, were excellent as they had been repaired. I will use it to check for effectiveness of the Waxoyl spray, to see if every surface is covered as that process gets underway.

I would imagine there are relatively open voids between the floor skins of your latest acquisition Simon, so it would be ideal to check those areas .... it is just difficult to manoeuvre it in smaller areas such as the small box sections mentioned above.

                                        Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancianut666 on 01 August, 2016, 09:51:59 AM
saw these....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancianut666 on 01 August, 2016, 09:54:58 AM
oops


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 01 August, 2016, 11:35:32 AM
Thats Simons cab! (the first one - built on a hybrid chassis with independant rear suspension as standard berlina not the factory chassis shown in this article). Does it give a clue to who built the cabriolet?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 01 August, 2016, 12:09:55 PM
Thats Simons cab! (the first one - built on a hybrid chassis with independant rear suspension as standard berlina not the factory chassis shown in this article). Does it give a clue to who built the cabriolet?

Great sleuthing Tim.......hope the forum can answer a few more questions for Simon over the coming weeks and months!


P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - Wiring
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 August, 2016, 01:23:59 PM
Thank you everyone !

I bought a nice period ESSO advert from Italy last week which also shows a similar looking cabrio. It is just about possible to make out some of the detail, so it is beginning to add up (the photo posted by Norm on the "Frostick" thread adds to it all as well)

I am starting to collect the necessary bits for the eventual rebuild, this weeks purchase was some lovely reproduction wire with the correct woven outside and some spiral trunking .... not cheap but very nice !

Now need to find the correct ends and tabs


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Lapsed Cesare Ferrari on 01 August, 2016, 01:30:01 PM
The 1936 Autocar article describes the chassis version as having independent rear suspension. The Autocar photograph shows chassis members rising over the rear axle area, but I do not see any trace of leaf springs, as fitted to later chassis-only Aprilias. I believe that Wim Oude Weernink in "La Lancia" also states that the Aprilia chassis for coachbuilders was first made with the standard rear springs.

Ciao a tutti

Cesare


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 August, 2016, 07:41:23 AM
Sebastian, the roller setup is a bit different, so unfortunately your kind offer won't help, thanks

Re chassis suspension, it appears that it was only the last, post war cars that had the live axle with leaf springs. The majority had IRS

I will dig out the numbers later


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: BlueSky on 06 August, 2016, 08:56:49 AM
Attached are the Aprilia production numbers, there were just 957 live axle chassis, 707 post war Tipo 539 chassis and the 250 Torpedo Militare 659s also.
Noel


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Kari on 07 August, 2016, 10:56:11 AM
Found in my father's archive the picture of an Aprilia drophead in a ditch. The second picture shows the same car in the yard of Capitol Garage, Zurich, Switzerland for repair.

regards Karl


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - Dismantling starts
Post by: GG on 07 August, 2016, 02:49:13 PM
The mechanism looks exactly like the one in my Aurelia Pinin Farina cabriolet (1950). It screws inside the door panel.
I assume that Pinin Farina had developped a standard mechanism, which they tried to use in all their carbodies.

Nice thought, but not quite. Practically each series of B20 features a different answer to the window cranking mechanism....  consider it "on-line" development as they were trying to figure out how to raise a frameless window. Needless to say, the answer is in the s.6, with a nice vertical track in the front to stabilize and direct the simpler glass.

Not surprisingly, a similar solution was used in the Fulvia coupe, track in the front, frameless in back. And in the Fulvia Sport... frame all around. Hmm. One senses a trend here.   


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 08 August, 2016, 10:37:41 AM
That Aprilia had a stong windscreen frame. Good to know.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 08 August, 2016, 11:42:25 AM
Boot hinged from the top but non black hood is interesting. Mostly has Simon's car details


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 August, 2016, 12:36:42 PM
Fascinating photos - during the war ? Thank you for sharing them - I would love copies if possible .....

The boot is especially interesting from my point of view because it has exactly the same quarter bumpers and I don't think it is top hinged, I think that they are a latch style over-lock. It would explain the cover plate on mine and the structure behind the panel.

I have had a very close look at how mine has been built and how any repairs have been made and I am as sure as I can be that the boot was always hinged from the bottom, but the locks were a later mod - using French sourced handles - possibly Citroen Traction (??) which would make sense

The biggest difference to mine appears to the position of the indicators, they seem higher than mine, but need to look more closely

I like the double spare wheel in the boot, without the cover

The old advert that I bought also showed a light coloured roof



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Kari on 10 August, 2016, 07:49:09 AM
The picture of the car in the ditch has probably been taken just after the war outside Switzerland. The truck in the background seems to be an US Army vehicle, but it's not visible if it's active or surplus.

In my opinion the car looks quite close to the one pictured in the brochure on picture 100_0082 further up on this tread. I am sure it has the bootlid hinged at the bottom with latches on top. Top hinges would'nt make sense as it would be too heavy to lift the lot. Perhaps the double spare wheel was an option as it was on the Augusta.

Simon: I will scan the paper copys to a higher resolution and send them to you.

Regards Karl


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - floor structure
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 August, 2016, 12:48:01 PM
Thanks Karl, the pictures are a real help !

More on the floor .....

We have cut off the cill on one side and cut an inspection hole on the other with a view to understanding exactly how the floor was made so that it can be remade accurately.

As previously thought, the floor sandwich comes as far as the S shaped chassis rail and then the outer section is welded on afterwards along with the outriggers. There are box sections at the front of the chassis that incorporate the bulkhead support, but the rear box section that supports the door pillar, appears to have been added with the bodywork ie by the coachbuilder. Once I have clearer photos I will post them

The photo shows the position of the internal cross members and the outriggers supporting the bodywork. The chassis rails are remarkably good, only one small section to replace. Then a single,long repair piece to replace the lower floor where it is welded to the chassis rail. Once the front and rear box sections are tidied up, then the new outer cill can be added

Looking at the construction, the cause of "problems" originally was that water is allowed into the front of the cill from a gap inside the engine bay - so we will make a small mod to prevent this happening in the future !




Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 September, 2016, 08:01:19 PM
Dog has been working on a large, tricky plate

Where necessary the honeycomb has been repaired and the bottom floor has been joggled to take the new plate.  It now needs to be drilled to recreate the spot welds along the chassis frame and then seam welded to the original floor

A lot of work to do nicely, not really justified in 2 lines .....

I want to get this bit right because the rest is so good !



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 September, 2016, 10:47:08 AM

That twin skinned "honeycomb" floor is a really sophisticated thing...who would have thought???


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 21 September, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
Just like a 2CV.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 September, 2016, 12:18:14 PM
But 12 years later than the Aprilia !

The honeycomb extends into the forward arms that support the front axle. I have now removed all the previous repairs/patches to this side of the chassis


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 September, 2016, 06:04:34 PM
I might be being thick - but how is the lower plate attached to the honeycomb? I can see that the honeycomb can be welded to the imternal floor but once you finish boxing it in that's no longer an option with the lower plate.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 September, 2016, 07:06:03 PM
Hi Stan
Once the plate is made and trial fitted, it is removed and holes are drilled along the lines of honeycombs. Once refitted, the holes are then welded up, attaching the plate to the honeycomb above - effectively spot welding the plate in place

Looking at the original floor, it appears to have been done like this first time round. I haven't got any pictures but will take some tomorrow

PS will be in touch re other matters ......


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 28 September, 2016, 12:48:39 PM
[quote aut!
pic=8991.msg65698#msg65698 date=1474633094]
But 12 years later than the Aprilia !

The honeycomb extends into the forward arms that support the front axle. I have now removed all the previous repairs/patches to this side of the chassis
[/quote]
Actually the 2CV was designed at about the same time as the Aprilia, the prototype was hidden in a shed during the war and brought out afterwards.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 September, 2016, 01:23:32 PM
So, some industrial espionage going on .....

Dog told me that these spot-welds are not spot-welds but plug-welds. Next plate has been made and now fitted, but in order to line up the inner membranes for drilling the holes for the "plug-welds" we painted some gloopy paint on the inside prior to a trial fitting



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 28 September, 2016, 02:46:33 PM
Jim uses the term 'plug weld' for this technique. I have always used 'pond weld', but that may be the difference between car body work and bridge construction where I learnt my term. The main thing is that it works ...... it is a neat way of welding your floor where access is impossible and, in my bridge days, it was a good way of increasing the amount of weld attaching two members together when the boundary length was insufficient to meet the design weld length requirement.

                                                                           Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 28 September, 2016, 04:53:51 PM
Plug welds is the term I have always seen used as a car bodywork term.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 29 September, 2016, 07:02:15 PM
Thanks Frank, I agree about new leather.

When I re-upholstered my Aprilia berlina I used Connolly hides, so I plan to do the same. The only question is whether I need a more sun/rain resistant leather

Stan, Maison Simon doesn't actually do softtops (which is a shame because it needs doing !) but he can supply the Alpaca material .... he is a young (ish), 4th generation upholsterer whose work looks very good

Today I finished the front of the chassis and a couple of other small bits, the out-rigger was a bit fiddly but now ready for Dog to attack the "pretty" bits



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: LANCIA on 29 September, 2016, 07:06:59 PM
CIAO SIMON , MESSAGGI PER TE SU TUA MAIL ...........GRAZIE.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 29 September, 2016, 10:42:26 PM
This picture gives an impression of the difference between typical new leather and period leather.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 October, 2016, 10:44:56 AM
Unfortunately I have no option but to renew the leather, only half of it is there and the other half is too brittle and has already split.

Finally received my Aprilia engine back from the UK - started the rebuild before the Cabrio was even a twinkle in my eye !

Plan is to refit a 1350 engine in the Cabrio, but keep the 12V electrics.

With a "brand new" engine, it should go quite well. It has new pistons & liners, thin-wall bigends, white metaled main-bearings, crack tested everything, NOS conrods, new chain gear, new head bolts, rewelded block etc etc , it should be OK for a while !

Some would have changed the rods to metal ones, but without starting that discussion again, I have used some originals.

Next is to identify a decent head and rocker gear


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 02 October, 2016, 12:47:55 PM
How did you fit the big ends, build up crankshaft or fit into old white metal shell backings?   It will affect the engine balance if you have changed the big end mass significantly.    May be worth running up the engine on the bench (even passively if you can work out how to drive it).     Mine was grossly out of balance with new steel conrods but yours should be much better than that!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 02 October, 2016, 03:18:20 PM
Interesting machining at the top of the liners or are my eyes deceiving me? Are all Aprilias like that?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 November, 2016, 08:43:53 PM
Coming back to this one after a brief pause .....

Re conrods, the new shells were fitted to early rods, so no shell backings. I had some new rods so we used those.

The liners were, I think , like that, and have been reproduced as they were.......

I have been bumbling along with the Aprilia while working on the Appia, one of the biggest "challenges" is the interior and hood and I have chosen the leather for the seats (Connolly Vaumol). However I don't have front seat bases and need to create them

Someone had used standard Aprilia front seat bases, screwed to plywood and fitted to the frame ! But they are too short and don't fit correctly around the propshaft tunnel, so I have dismantled (with feline assistance) the seat to see how it was made and can now remake the sprung seat base prior to re-upholstering
 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 22 November, 2016, 10:38:34 AM
Dining room table again!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 November, 2016, 11:55:38 AM
She was away this time ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 22 November, 2016, 12:43:31 PM
So how come if the cat was still at home the mice came out to play....;)

Much better looking seats than the ones have have, intensely jealous!


P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 February, 2017, 06:25:03 PM
Over Christmas and the New Year I have gradually been getting everything together for doing the interior.

Leather has arrived, all the springs, wadding and leather-cloth has been sourced ready for the seats to be done in April. Plus this week a major step forward was finding a local lad who will make and fit the roof.

He is late 20's , been working for a trimmer for 15 years and is starting out on his own. Work looks excellent (he is going to do my dining room chairs as well !). He can start the roof at the end of March !

I have received samples of double-duck , alpaca and mohair materials in a variety of colours, so tomorrow Dog is coming over and we are going to decide on a colour scheme for the Cabrio.

I am thinking 2-tone black/red with either black or burgundy roof .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 17 February, 2017, 06:46:12 PM
That is all so exciting!!! I hope that it all comes together quickly and easily.

                                         Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 18 February, 2017, 06:30:06 PM
Simon, I would take a long time thinking about colour combinations for the Aprilia. Pinin Farina designs are so harmonious that they rarely look good in striking two tone colours, they usually look far better in just one colour.
I have however seen some in very subtle two tone. So for example if you go for the burgundy hood (you have to start with the hood colour as there are not many different shades to choose from) then paint the main body in a darker shade of Burgundy and the sides of the car within the body molding line in a slightly lighter shade of the same colour.
This will accentuate the shape of the car without looking brash.
If look at period photos of Aprilia Cabriolets there aren't many that are two tone.
But it's your car and your choice and colour is a very personal thing, the same colour can look totally different to two different set of eyes.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 18 February, 2017, 06:49:18 PM
Yellow and Black is very Francais!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sebastien on 18 February, 2017, 07:27:34 PM
Here is a nice Aprilia cabriolet in 2 tones of blue.

Be careful when choosing a color for the convertible hood. Make sure the cloth is woven in the chosen color - I have seen in Italy convertible tops on Aurelias B50 cabriolet which were dyed, starting from white cloth, and they do not age well! Personally I think that a black top is still best, in the long term.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 February, 2017, 02:33:01 PM
Thank you for your comments and it is a difficult decision

I have always wanted a red/black car because I like the colour scheme and with the correct red/burgundy it says "pre-war". Some would argue that it is more Augusta than Aprilia, but this is an early '37 car, so OK to my mind

A single red could look very good as well and then a burgundy hood would be lovely. Plus it seems a shame not to use the delightful line across the top of the doors and in front of the rear wing - so many options

Dog came over this afternoon and we had fun with spraycans. Even though it was mat black and a slightly pink, red it has given an idea how it would look. The only problem is that as always it raises more questions than it answers !

Here are some of the results .......

ps I like the 2 tone blue, but that was how it was repainted when it came to France (I think) and I already have a blue car . I think the yellow /black would look great but I would always be thinking of Modestine 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: JohnMillham on 19 February, 2017, 04:39:46 PM
It's unusual, to say the least, for the colour to change at the waist line of an Augusta. I think it looks a bit strange. Black wings and running boards and another colour everywhere else is the norm, unless it's black all over.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 February, 2017, 07:11:30 PM

"I have always wanted a red/black car because I like the colour scheme".    Is there a particular car you remember those colours?  If so, whatever it was, why not match exactly?

David


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 19 February, 2017, 07:31:05 PM
Maroon and black can look very classy but I would go quite dark on the shade of maroon, darker than your trial colour. If would think the colour and shade of the hood ought to be a determining factor as the variety of shades would be more restricted.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 20 February, 2017, 12:22:27 PM
The two tone blue looks very nice. Summer colours. If you want it more sombre there's black over grey although neither would give you your burgundy hood. Just thought I'd add confusion. Thought you would have preferred a Carignan hood to Burgundy.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 20 February, 2017, 12:46:02 PM
Here is a nice Aprilia cabriolet in 2 tones of blue.

Be careful when choosing a color for the convertible hood. Make sure the cloth is woven in the chosen color - I have seen in Italy convertible tops on Aurelias B50 cabriolet which were dyed, starting from white cloth, and they do not age well! Personally I think that a black top is still best, in the long term.

+1 for this finish, shows off lines nicely, would look well all year around in the south of France.


P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 20 February, 2017, 01:11:35 PM
There was a S1 B20 Pininfarina Speciale sold last year at auction in the UK which was a lovely shade of red and black with an interesting line for the colour change. I cant find pictures just at the minute.
Chris


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sebastien on 20 February, 2017, 02:16:16 PM
Aurelia B20 S1
Here it is!



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 25 February, 2017, 09:31:17 PM
I  think it will look very smart in red and black, or maroon and black; and if you've always wanted a car in that colour scheme, why not? Except, looking back to the earlier pages in this thread, your steering wheel is light blue! What are you going to do about that?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 26 February, 2017, 08:47:53 AM
Except, looking back to the earlier pages in this thread, your steering wheel is light blue! What are you going to do about that?

Paint it Black??? (tribute to a great rock band...)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 26 February, 2017, 11:35:57 AM
Pininfarina wasn't averse to two-tone paintwork: these are both Alfas, but the colour scheme works well.

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/vernonderby/Coachbuilding/pfalfa%20002_zpsp67gcwwj.jpg)

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q136/vernonderby/Coachbuilding/alfa_2300_03d_zpsmieyfts8.jpg)

I think if you are going for this colour scheme then the hood needs to be the same colour as the top paint colour - if you go for a black and red scheme then that makes the choice of hood material easy!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 05 March, 2017, 10:06:21 AM
Having fitted the correct high ratio cwp to my sedan I now have the previous low ratio cwp from a cabrio, that I fitted in 1970, going begging.   Would you like it for a spare?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 March, 2017, 11:29:03 AM
Yes please !

Will send a message


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 06 March, 2017, 10:14:57 AM
Simon, I was thinking about your comment about wanting it in black and yellow but thinking of Modestine. I wouldn't worry too much about having it the same colour as one other car in the whole club which is in a different country. Think of me - I own a red Fulvia. Common as muck.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: brian on 06 March, 2017, 11:46:16 AM
Augustas invading Aprilia space!
Here is my Twopenny worth on the single/double colour question.
Attached is the list I asked Lancia for in 1981  about colours when I was 10 years from actually putting paint on my car.
There is only one combination of colours not the usual body all same and wings same or black is the 5th down (brown and grey) which I cannot remember ever seeing (and does not sound alluring to me).
I have always liked maroon/black (obviously) BUT it does have to be the correct maroon. I painted the body initially and the maroon looked "modern". I cannot really explain why but perhaps it was just a bit bright. I went back to the paint mix place and they added blue and I have been very happy since.

However, having discussed authenticity my Aprilia is painted with a 1960s Fiat blue and my Flavia Sport is painted with a 1960s Ferrari blue so whatever I say is obviously suspect!!!
Brian


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: josefewald on 06 March, 2017, 02:37:59 PM
Hello Simon,

there is a convertible very much like yours now offered in Italy, also marron with a black hood (see La Manovella, febbraio 2017: Tel. +39 339 708 04 07 ; maybe the vendor will send you a photo?). Personally, I prefer a hood in a lighter color since this makes the car visually lighter, and any shade of grey is the best for Aprilia in terms of '30s aesthetics.

Good luck!
j


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: brian on 06 March, 2017, 06:48:31 PM
Herewith info which was on pdf to big to load so summarised with dual colour at end
Brian


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: brian on 06 March, 2017, 06:49:34 PM
Sorry again - formatting lost!
Brian


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sebastien on 06 March, 2017, 08:03:44 PM
Brian,
Is this what you wanted?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: brian on 06 March, 2017, 08:21:54 PM
Many thanks. Info now readable.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 March, 2017, 04:38:24 PM
Thanks for the colours and comments.

Much as I love the red roof, I have bought black "double-duck" because it gives most options. I toyed with mohair (Alpaca in France) because it doesn't shrink or fade, however it is not actually mohair, but acrylique and so I have gone with original-type material. 10 m of material is on its way to France !

This afternoon I have remade/modified the first of the front seats.

The seat base was from a std Aprilia saloon and was a bit small so, rather than start from scratch, I made a frame extension for the top and bottom. They were clipped in place then Additional springs added. All tied together and covered in a base coat of hessian

The wire is incredibly tough so I bent it was using 2 screws screwed into the bench and pulling around the pivot

The photos probably say it better ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 15 March, 2017, 05:15:10 PM
As ingenious as ever.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Jaydub on 15 March, 2017, 07:18:54 PM
Brilliant! Is there anything you cannot do?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 17 March, 2017, 03:44:45 PM
Formidable!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - electrics
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 March, 2017, 06:59:21 PM
Down here we don't have the same infrastructure or suppliers, so I have to have a go at everything !

Today I have started dismantling the front end, concentrating on the electrics . They have been played with in the past and are a bit of a mess so I have recorded what is there and been looking at my files for how it should be.

The Cabrio (early chassis) set up is a bit different to the 1st ser saloon and different again to S2 chassis. I have various wiring diagrams including S1 std, S2 std , 539 chassis and Ardennes , but no S1 cabrio ....... Can anyone help ? If not I will work it out and write it up !

In the meantime , a few photos

Another request - does anyone have any underbonnet photos of cabrios showing the detail between the battery box and tool box ? On mine someone had removed some elements , screwed in place an aluminium plate and fitted an isolation key. All these holes will need to be welded up !











Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 March, 2017, 07:03:29 PM
More photos of wiring diagrams, plus forgot to point out the "high amps" fuse fitted to the service circuits ....



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Kari on 21 March, 2017, 12:37:51 PM
Hello,

When I rewired my Augusta a few years ago, I got rid of the 40 Amp fuse including the box. I did install the same fuse box as for the main and side lights at the same position. This did allow to split the services and allowed to use 10 or 15 amp fuses. Also since decades I have a cut-out switch between battery negative and chassis. Result: Peace of mind! Attached the currrent wiring diagram.

Best regards  Karl


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 March, 2017, 08:54:59 AM
Thanks Karl, I will need to modify my wiring as well to include a proper indicator system as well as the original trafficators. Not sure of the detail yet but I will come up with something ....

I was at a VERY wet and windy "Avignon Motor Festival" on Friday looking out for bits and pieces as well as chromers, rubber suppliers etc.

I spent most of my time rootling through boxes of rusty metal in the rain and came across a few interesting bits including this very nice Flaminia (?) front grill for 200 euros - I didn't buy it. But I did buy a nice pair of lozenge indicator repeaters because they reminded me of the ones I had on my B20 , if nothing else. Not sure what they are from, but may get used one day

I specifically wanted handles for the Cabrio as my car has been modified to take Citroen Traction handles at some time in its (French) life. I can buy these new so it makes sense to stay with them because to undo the mods will be difficult.

The other thing that I have been wanting for a while is a "coachliner" - a roller syringe with magnetic guide for painting coachlines. Dog will be able to use it as well, so hopefully it will not sit in a drawer !

Couple of photos of the cars in the auction, 3 Fulvias inc a 1.3 racey Zagato with an estimate of 80 - 100,000 euros (!!) . There were a couple of Betas in the car park

Lastly, just starting to clean up the engine bay and have come across another stamped number. I have the chassis and spare parts numbers in the correct places, but there is another one stamped above the steering column. I haven't seen a reference to this anywhere yet - anyone know what it is ?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 March, 2017, 08:56:30 AM
More ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 March, 2017, 06:22:38 PM
I thought the teardrop indicators were Fulvia/Stratos etc but in fact the Lancia ones have a flat top. The Zagato looks like a Vere Lancia special. Good idea to keep with the Traction handles. They're very stylish and in keeping with the car and hide their mass produced roots well.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 27 March, 2017, 03:05:55 AM
You are certainly pushing on Simon, excellent progress.

I think your stamped number may be PF's build number. If it is, you should find it stamped on all the major components such as each door, the bonnet etc. It does look very similar to the number stamped on many parts of my B20 including the bonnet hinges. The number was also crudely painted on some of the internal trim panels. See my B20 Story thread.

Good luck with it, once more brilliant to read how you are getting on!!

                                      Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 March, 2017, 05:31:30 PM
Thanks Andy
The numbers on the chrome bits are different - 173 and the body numbers are 873 (parts number) and 889 above the steering column

A couple of hours this afternoon spent on the back seat base. It was very soft and the frame was losing its shape so I made and added a new top frame/front edge and added some extra springs. I used 6" 12G springs for the first 2 rows and 4" 12G springs for the 3rd.

The 12 gauge wire is very light so hopefully the finished seat will not be too stiff - it is a bit trial and error .....

The springs are held in place with "c" clips and then the edge is bound with hessian strips before being sewn in place with 4 cord hemp twine. So the springs are bound in place, but not too rigid





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 April, 2017, 01:32:18 PM
Carburetors !

This carb came with the Cabrio, but isn't originally Aprilia - any ideas ?? Zenith/Stromberg EX 22 P

Another question - can you run a 1350 engine with the 2nd series Weber carb ? does it need re-jetting ?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 03 April, 2017, 08:53:19 PM
For what it's worth I had a single choke Webber on a Vauxhall Victor and that was rated as suitable for everything from 1600 to 2000cc so I would think your Series 2 carb would be worth a try.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 April, 2017, 06:43:27 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, I only have a Weber, so I will probably start with that

We took the roof off the Cabrio today. I have never re-roofed a cabrio before, although I have owned several, so it was interesting to see how it works.

It is all about retaining tension - getting decent anchors and not too much bulk.

The rear anchor is not how I imagined, the metal lip is pierced by a large number of drilled holes with a wooden frame behind it. The inner and outer material is then attached to this - the inner one gripped by a piece of split bamboo, nailed to the top of the frame and then the outer is nailed to the frame, the nails passing through the material/drilled holes and into the wood

The wood is cream-crackered so I will need to remake this frame, otherwise the rest is very good

Nice detail showing leather loops holding the wires for the inside light

ps not sure what is happening to the photo sizing - I will try to rectify it !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 25 April, 2017, 06:12:51 AM
Funny, the carburettor.  I recently came across the very same in some Lancia parts I bought and wondered what it came from.  Seems to have been used on some Talbot's, but maybe was a known conversion for aprillia's?  In any case the previous owner of the parts had an aprilia in the past.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 27 April, 2017, 01:06:33 PM
In 1971 I bought a Weber in Cavallito in Torino "for an Aprilia".    I never used it as I later acquired a Nardi manifold so sold the Weber to Gerald Batt for his Aprilia.  Don't remember much about it now and cannot remember what it looked like but pretty sure it was not like yours.   It may have been twin choke.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 May, 2017, 07:54:49 PM
There has been quite a lot going on behind the scenes with the Cabrio, the interior has started as has the hood and headlining

The hood has been removed and the headlining started. New wool headlining has arrived from "Erreffe" in Italy and the "first cut" has been made. Similarly, the hood has been shaped.

Dog is due in next week to paint the rear quarter so that we can fit the hood once it is made. It is slightly the wrong way round but sometimes I have to do things in the order I have them available, or wait an eon ....

Likewise with the interior. The local upholsterer has dismantled and photographed everything and last week I collected all the frames. I need to do any repairs, clean and repaint the bits and then he can carry on with the upholstery

Everything is pretty sane, a bit of surface rust on springs/frames etc , but the wood is not rotten or eaten, so it has been a case of strip , clean, re-glue , paint, varnish etc etc

The frames are made of softwood and are neatly jointed, glued and screwed, then the spring assembly is nailed to them. I separated the springs from the frames, re-glued where necessary, replaced the steel screws with brass screws (where there they come in contact with the leather) , de-rusted and painted the springs/frames and "hard-waxed" the wood frames. Should finish this tomorrow and return them to the upholsterer by the end of the week

It is all very "old-school" and beautifully made. Some detail photos attached. As usual it is all marked up in pencil or stamped for a particular car - "167" in this case. The leather is also stamped ".....73 GARRONE" which suggests a Bordeaux red - very appropriate !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 11 May, 2017, 09:11:47 AM
No rest for you between projects! That's a substantial piece of wood. De-rusting the springs must have been a bit of a chore. I assume it's just a case of sanding each one by hand? Do you have any kind of blasting cabinet?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 May, 2017, 01:16:33 PM

Any excuse to plug the Hannah's Bug series on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIAi1M9X8s8

That episode is on electrolytic rust removal.  Her blasting setup is quite a thing with a large number of cheap compressors and an impressive switching system.

David


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 May, 2017, 07:12:32 PM
The videos are fun, I will have to see if Mathilda will switch from "Thatcher Joe"

Busy day today, 3 photos can't really sum it up ......

As Stan pointed out, cleaning up the springs takes quiet a while, especially this last set that were quite rusty. I used a rust converter after I had cleaned them, then gave them a spray with black acrylic

A before and after shot of the bases. Everything has had a coat of blue paint, not sure why ,but it has to come off. Once cleaned up , all the wood has had a coat of hard wax

Last photo shows the extended seat base, ready to be re-upholstered

Lots of other little jobs like replacing broken springs, cleaning up and lacquering the runners, cleaning up the rake adjuster threads etc etc

Hopefully will be finished tomorrow so the trimmer can carry on



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 May, 2017, 06:31:01 AM

Was there one bit that took WAY more time than expected or just "steady progress"?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 May, 2017, 09:35:24 AM
How do you strip the paint off so cleanly, e.g. the seat bases?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 May, 2017, 05:20:54 PM
Thanks for your comments

David, nothing has taken much more time than expected if taken as individual "jobs", it is more that there is so much to do. The springs did take an age to wire brush and paint and masking properly takes time
I find that I do several jobs at a time, rubbing something down whilst waiting for something else to dry and then pop upstairs to do the seat spring after I've painted the thing I've just rubbed down. Repeat as necessary !

Unfortunately, if I take something apart or uncover it, I cannot put it back dirty......even if it will never be seen again

Stan, stripping the wood was a case of finding the appropriate abrasive and taking layers off until I got back to a layer I like. I could rub everything down to bare wood, but I think it loses its charm, I would rather something was tarnished and characterful. Same with flaking chrome, I remove the loose and then polish the rest before protecting it. My latest favourite is spray satin varnish

Straying slightly, I came across a delightful detail. A 1926, 25 centime coin has been used as a washer on one of the seat frames. It looks as if it has always been there. It seems to me to be a "signature"

It is a fascinating hint at the origins of the car. The frame numbers correspond with those on the chrome plates, brackets etc and looking at nail holes it looks as if the seats have not been re-upholstered.

So, was the car trimmed in France originally ? No way an Italian would use a French coin, "Garonne" (or Garrone) stamped on the leather. Ardennes wheels. There are more and more hints that this car came to France very early in its life.  

Who knows .......

For a bit of fun I fitted the seat frames to the car for a photo shoot






Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: nthomas1 on 13 May, 2017, 03:19:13 PM
I love the centime used as a washer. Wonderful!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 13 May, 2017, 06:56:59 PM
You can almost use the wood as a template to make more coins!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 May, 2017, 02:45:40 PM
It seems that the coins of the pre-war period had holes in them already, so they didn't even need to drill them

Still on the subject of coins, the plot thickens ......

I delivered the renovated frames back to the upholsterer in St Chinian and he said that during the dismantling of the seats he found another coin.

This one is REALLY interesting, it is a Vichy France 1 Franc coin made in 1944. They were only available between 1942 - 1944 and probably only used in France.

So , it does suggest that my car was here in 1944 !  If that is the case, with the upholstery evidence does that mean my car has always been a French PininFarina Aprilia ??

We know that Ardennes were finished here, does that mean Cabrios were as well ??

Quote from Wikipaedia:

 "During the Nazi occupation of France (1940–44), the franc was a satellite currency of the German Reichsmark. The exchange rate was 20 francs for 1 RM. The coins were changed, with the words Travail, Famille, Patrie (Work, Family, Fatherland) replacing the Republican triad Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité (Liberty, Equality, Fraternity) and the emblem of the Vichy regime added.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 15 May, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Unfortunately the fact that the coin was only issued from 1942 to 1944 doesn't necessarily mean that it got into the seat at that date. It only means it can't have got into the seat before that date. However it could be taken as corroborative evidence even if not conclusive evidence.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 16 May, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
Fantastic bits of history. I trust the 'washer' will be returned to its rightful place in the seat? Perhaps you should drill a current centime and use as a washer elsewhere as a little bit of interest for future restorers.

P.S. have you checked that double floor properly for Nazi gold?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 16 May, 2017, 04:01:29 PM
Unfortunately the fact that the coin was only issued from 1942 to 1944 doesn't necessarily mean that it got into the seat at that date. It only means it can't have got into the seat before that date. However it could be taken as corroborative evidence even if not conclusive evidence.

This is true, but equally I doubt if the Vichy coins stayed around long after 1945, so it probably got left in the car long before the car had a chance to be imported ...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 May, 2017, 07:18:27 PM
Frank, you are right it is corroborative rather than conclusive , so is part of an increasingly interesting (for me) story about the origins of the car. FCA can only confirm the date of construction for the chassis, not even where it went once it left Lancia in 1937

So I am still looking for the gold hoard with its bill of sale, delivery instructions and dates ......

Dog was here today because I need to prepare the back of the car so the hood can be trial-fitted (next week !). He arrived with a tool I have not seen before - the pin-puller. It significantly reduces the amount of filler used which makes me happy

Hopefully paint will go on tomorrow


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 19 May, 2017, 08:18:19 AM
Dog's pin puller looks a far more elegant solution than the attempt to use self tapping screws that has been made on my Flaminia.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 May, 2017, 10:20:18 AM

Both work...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 May, 2017, 07:59:39 PM
Dog has finished the top edge and I stripped and painted the interior rear section, so getting ready for the hood next week. I still need to make the new wooden frame that sits inside the lip



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 May, 2017, 08:44:26 AM
What's the final colour scheme to be? Beautiful glossy black and..................?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 May, 2017, 06:27:21 PM
...... probably a dark red, probably !

The roof and headlining are due to be fitted next week so the final job before Clement gets here was to replace the wood behind the lip. I don't know how to steam and bend wood so I found a nice piece of pressure treated floor timber and fitted it in several pieces.

The curves are quite complex !

Held in place with stainless screws and a coat of oil to protect it all for the next 80 years


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 May, 2017, 08:27:50 PM
The new roof-lining has been fitted and first fit done for the roof

It has been fascinating to watch, start at the back and work forward, keeping the fabric under tension is key

The roof has been marked up and removed and will be adjusted and finished next Tuesday - can't wait


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 31 May, 2017, 08:40:02 PM
Good days work. Black hood?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 01 June, 2017, 05:43:41 PM
What a progress!!!  You best already start looking for the next project Simon!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 June, 2017, 07:28:18 PM
And today it was finished - in black

It is beautiful and I am lucky to have found a real (young) artisan who knows what he is doing and just gets on with it - and for a fair price

The fit is perfect, good tension on the fabric, no wrinkles and it folds neatly. The only things that I am not 100% happy with are the aluminium pin beading strips. They are a bit too "bling" so I am going to replace them with "Hidem" banding instead. The lower trim I'll keep.

It is a significant step forward and next step is to finish the welding on the floor pan and then to paint the bodyshell. Once that is done I can concentrate on the mechanics/wiring:brakes etc etc whilst Dog does the rest of the bodywork

I have found a chromer to do the bumpers, headlight surrounds and other bits
 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 June, 2017, 10:30:09 PM

That's a big and tricky and significant job off the list.  Its a large percentage of the visible surface.

David


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 June, 2017, 10:54:07 AM
That's extremely skilful work. Looks as tight as a drum.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 June, 2017, 07:21:12 AM

I just saw the SPR pictures - what did you learn from that Aprilia Cabrio?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 June, 2017, 07:31:54 AM
Lots !

I have an appointment with the seat upholsterer this evening, so now have lots of photos for him. The owners of the Cabrio are a delightful Dutch couple who we are planning to meet up with later in the year

More later ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 June, 2017, 01:08:13 PM
Upholsterer popped round last night, he was keen to see the car and how the seats fitted, where there was "wriggle-room" and where it was tight. Apparently he had had several "nuits blanches" or sleepless nights !

He has made a lovely job of fitting the hessian and tying in the springs

Good to see it coming together although there is likely to be a slight delay because of other priorities


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 17 June, 2017, 06:52:22 AM
This all reminds me of a late Dornford Yates novel "The House That Berry Built" where Berry and Co. had retreated to France in the mid 30's being unable to afford the upkeep on thier English estate.  They kept finding these marvellous craftsmen such as were no longer available at home and much cheaper too!    If you can get over his Upper Class predjudices, the Berry books are very funny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_That_Berry_Built


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 August, 2017, 05:42:15 PM
Not come across this book, will have to look out for it ......

The Cabrio is back up on the ramp because Dog and I have a bit of time to do things again. First up was to protect the roof and headlining and the remove the door on this side

The hinge-pins are badly bent and are HS (hors-service). I used the induction heater and hammer/punch to get them moving, but not worth putting them back. A bit of research revealed that they are remarkably similar to VW Beetle pins and they are available in standard , 0.1 and 0.2 mm oversize at a reasonable price, I can always fettle them on the lathe if necessary - more later because there are some subtleties !

The door has been stripped and added to the collection of body panels bound for Dog's new workshop.

As seen before, the winder mechanism is robust and simple , as is the locking mechanism.

Removing previous "repair" panels has not revealed any nasty surprises, fortunately !

More tomorrow ........


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 02 August, 2017, 08:38:56 AM
Thought the hood was going to b black - but the blue and white check is very nice! How are you going to get right inside the double floor to derust, clean, paint etc?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 03 August, 2017, 09:47:28 AM
Thought the hood was going to b black - but the blue and white check is very nice! How are you going to get right inside the double floor to derust, clean, paint etc?
Perhaps paint the car to match?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 August, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
If I was painting the car, I'd get a similar pattern to be sure - fortunately Dog is in charge of paint

We have done quite a lot this week, but as often happens, it doesn't look it from the photos !

All the old repairs on the floor have now been removed and all very sane. This side is significantly better than the other side. I have been trying to peel back the previous repairs to see how the car was made originally so we can put it back as it was. Hopefully it is correct

The floor has been finished as a "single" piece, following the shape of the chassis and then we have added a panel to cover the Pininfarina-built outriggers. This has a flange to take the bodywork. Front and rear box sections have also been made to take the bodywork. Welds have been ground and then a thin skim of fibreglass to make it watertight and pretty. When it is all finished and painted I will fill it with waxoyl or liquid rust treatment, drilling the odd hole here and there if necessary

The rest of the chassis is being stripped using a combination of heat, paint stripper and mechanical stripping disks and then a coat of anti-rust paint on the unseen parts or undersides
The body panels are receiving the same treatment ready for Dog to prep and paint.

All mechanical bits are being removed ready for stripping and refurbishing. The pile of bits on the bench is getting bigger

The Beetle hinge pins that I ordered are perfect ! These have threaded tops for the hinge-mounted rear view mirror, you can buy them without, but the Cabrio had screw down greasers on the pins, so I will try and find some chromed caps to re-create the effect

Lastly, these new spares (triangular piece with 3 holes) have had me scratching my head for a while. I had no idea what they were but I knew that they were "Aprilia". Finally found out what they are ....... Any ideas before I spill the beans ??
 



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 12 August, 2017, 06:10:39 PM
As seen in Classic & Sports car September 2017 Lost & Found page 28.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 August, 2017, 06:32:50 PM
It's been published then ..... can you scan and send - I'm not back in the UK for a while ?

Be interesting to see what gets written after you've given notes and photos !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 12 August, 2017, 06:49:20 PM
email sent.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 August, 2017, 07:01:47 PM
Thanks Ade - a couple of minor errors but at least they spelt my name correctly !

This morning I took the rear diff/suspension unit off so that we can attack, clean and paint the rear section

Once the propshaft and brake pipe are disconnected it is only 3 or 4 bolts, depending on how you do it, and so long as the bolts are not seized, it is very easy

Next thing is to strip it all, repaint, replace the bushes and wire hangers etc then refit. This is likely to take some time so I will mock up an axle so it can be moved around during the renovations


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 13 August, 2017, 04:39:00 AM
Lastly, these new spares (triangular piece with 3 holes) have had me scratching my head for a while. I had no idea what they were but I knew that they were "Aprilia". Finally found out what they are ....... Any ideas before I spill the beans ??

Are these prop shaft spacers? There are so many areas where such castings might be required, but that was simply the first that came to mind!!!

It really is looking so good ....... but that is what we have all come expect of your restorations. Good luck with it all.

                                          Andy





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 August, 2017, 10:50:28 PM

I'm admiring the "classic" B&D work mate :)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 August, 2017, 06:34:43 PM
Andy - good suggestion but it is actually a hidden piece - it is the spacer between the double skin in the front valance where the steering box is mounted ! I had never noticed it before , anyway another part correctly boxed !

David, no surprise, but I picked it up fro 20 euros in a vide-grenier, couldn't resist because it is one of the originals

Just back from a mammoth tour of Southern France (more in Appia section) so not had a chance to do much until today. Stripping and cleaning continues.

The floor has been prepped and painted (using a small roller which gives very nice finish), the rest of the tunnel has been stripped of the fuel line, brake pipe , rear loom and handbrake cables and can now be cleaned and painted

With the rear subframe removed I need to mock up an axle to keep her "rolling" so a spare cross-member and trailing arms have appeared from stores, a couple of blocks of wood between the bump stops should give enough ground clearance for us to be able to move her around

Because she is pre-war, I am going to fit Michelin "Super-Conforts" instead of Michelin "X"s  - these have been sourced (BIG thank you to Mic in Portugal !)

Finally, I have removed all the silent-blocs on the rear subframe and steering, measured them up to see what I have and what I need to buy. Email sent to Robush ......

Dog back in tomorrow so hopefully more progress


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 August, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
Lots going on this week, the girls have been away on various "colonies de vacances" or summer camps, so the mouse can get his hands dirty

Dog has finished and I painted the floor and it looked excellent, but the new panel looked too new. So we cleaned the paint off again and then welded some "blobs" onto the floor frames because we had ground them off, then we beat it up a bit with a hammer so it looks more like the rest of the floor

Another coat of paint and it looks great !

The area under the rear subframe has been cleaned, rubbed down and painted as well, we have also started cleaning up the front valance and tunnel. The plan is to get the chassis fully finished so it can go to Dog's new workshop in September to be painted. Once done, I can start the rebuild whilst he gets the panels done

The car has a second series front axle fitted which I have decided to change. I have a couple of spare 1st series units, but have no idea of their condition so have started to pull them apart.

Having never touched a sliding pillar unit before, I have now dismantled 5 upper shock-absorber units in 2 days ....... I will write it up at some time, but suffice to say, the 1st and 2nd series are completely different. I don't think any parts are inter-changeable, but I will do more research. The later 2nd series unit is much more "Aurelia" and simpler to dismantle

The 2nd ser came apart with standard tools (including a 50-80 mm "C" spanner), whereas I had to make a castle-ated nut socket from an old socket for the 1st series. And I have another one to make tomorrow

I have yet to attack the main spring and bottom guide, but need to make some special tools and realistically the axle needs to be on the car unless I make a monster tool , like the one Koen made for his Aurelia


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 August, 2017, 09:46:49 PM

Is that double ended spanner as big as it looks?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 August, 2017, 01:51:47 PM
Probably not quite as big as it looks , but pretty impressive anyway ! Found it on eBay a couple of years ago but never knew what it was for ..... also fits furgoncino rear hub nuts

Another really useful tool is the hub puller that has also seen a lot of action this week

The second axle was a lot more difficult to take apart, a couple of the castle-ated nuts had been cross threaded at some time in the past, so I had to make another tool , heat the inner sleeve to red hot and slowly unthread the nut, as soon as the temperature dropped it blocked again, needing more heat to get it moving .


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - rear axle
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 August, 2017, 07:47:19 AM
Having come up with the brilliant idea to jury-rig a rear axle for moving the car around I came across a problem ......

The cross member for a Cabrio is completely different to a standard one, it is wider and flatter (approx 10x6 cm cf 6x8cm) and there is no way it will fit , so it means that I have to dismantle the original subframe and fit bits of that again

Once the unit was on the bench I took off the spring - which can be quite scary, but a few years ago we made a very solid spring clamp. Then I started to dismantle the rest. The position of the torsion bars has been noted and now need to make a puller to remove them carefully

The subframe had apparently been rebuilt, so some nice surprises and others less so !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 20 August, 2017, 01:10:36 PM
Simon, it's a Lancia: did you really think they would use the same subframe given a chance to design a slightly different new one....?

Love the lool, looks solid indeed, the curvature of the onloaded spring is unbelievable!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 August, 2017, 07:49:26 AM

Must of been such a pleasure to pull that tool out and get another use from in.  "Dilute the investment".


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 21 August, 2017, 01:09:48 PM
Andy - good suggestion but it is actually a hidden piece - it is the spacer between the double skin in the front valance where the steering box is mounted ! I had never noticed it before , anyway another part correctly boxed !

David, no surprise, but I picked it up fro 20 euros in a vide-grenier, couldn't resist because it is one of the originals

Just back from a mammoth tour of Southern France (more in Appia section) so not had a chance to do much until today. Stripping and cleaning continues.

The floor has been prepped and painted (using a small roller which gives very nice finish), the rest of the tunnel has been stripped of the fuel line, brake pipe , rear loom and handbrake cables and can now be cleaned and painted

With the rear subframe removed I need to mock up an axle to keep her "rolling" so a spare cross-member and trailing arms have appeared from stores, a couple of blocks of wood between the bump stops should give enough ground clearance for us to be able to move her around

Because she is pre-war, I am going to fit Michelin "Super-Conforts" instead of Michelin "X"s  - these have been sourced (BIG thank you to Mic in Portugal !)

Finally, I have removed all the silent-blocs on the rear subframe and steering, measured them up to see what I have and what I need to buy. Email sent to Robush ......

Dog back in tomorrow so hopefully more progress

I hope your Super Conforts are new, not of the same age as the car!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 August, 2017, 05:23:43 PM
"Diluting the investment" - I like that ...... the usual problem for me is that the tools aren't available in France and so it is often cheaper to make it than getting it sent from the UK

On the same subject, does anyone have (or have photos of) a front suspension, lower spring compression tool ? Having done the top (shock absorber) I now want to dismantle the bottom. I am not sure if I will do it on or off the car at the moment - advantages to both.

Didn't get into the garage yesterday, but did get to see "La Vuelta" which came nearby - I cycled over to Mirepisset and got VERY close to the action, the photo is not zoomed - I think it is Chris Froome ......

Having decided to switch back to a 1st ser axle, I took the Cabrio axle off this morning and offered up my spares. I have been having sleepless nights about this , just in case my car was out of square or the new axles were out - or both !

Fortunately, the axle with better shocks was also straight, the other had obviously had quite a knock, it was about 1/2" short on one set of bolt holes. Then , when I put them back to back , you can see why !

Tomorrow's job is to clean up the front valance area and axle beam, paint and refit. I'll attach a couple of drums so I can fit wheels and leave it for the time being. Once I have the new tools I can come back and do the bottom springs

The area around the rear subframe has had a 3rd coat of paint and is ready for the cross beam and training arms. I dismantled the rest of it today and have cleaned up the cross beam. The other cross beam - between diff and petrol tank - is also very different to the saloon - as Koen suggests, it is a Lancia afterall .......

A few surprises:

Nice - perfect driveshafts with new cups, torsion bars that are not worn and came out easily, bolts all came apart without too many problems, all drums have been skimmed and new pistons and shoes at the back

Not so nice - no split pins or locking nuts on the driveshafts, locking wire for both front wheel bearings not fitted, one bearing retaining nut had come undone and nut became damaged and needs replacing. Took a good hour to clean up the threads and fit a new nut. Various nuts and screws missing

Robush don't have all the silentblocs at the moment - some are obsolete as well, so I am going to have to search around for the rear shock absorber bushes in particular. The most common silentblock that fits the spring mount and  both cross-bars are apparently going to be remade later in the year .......

Lastly, fortunately, the tyres are new, they had been bought for another project but not been used.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 22 August, 2017, 10:29:24 AM
I can't believe the curvature of the unloaded spring either. Hard to believe that the rear of an Aprilia has enough weight to bring it back to a normal shape. That's why I'm not an engineer! The painted floor looks superb. I like the attention to detail - hammering it to age it. It one of those things where not many people will ever see it but you know it's right.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 23 August, 2017, 10:17:26 AM
My front suspension bottom tool is just a short piece of stout tube with a pair of slots in it to fit into the "nut" and a tranverse bar but it requires the assembled car to be resting on it to act as compressor.   The weight of the car is sufficient to allow the bottom to be unscrewed without drama.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 August, 2017, 07:11:41 AM
Thanks David, I have also had some useful correspondence with Noel in Australia who shared some photos from his brilliant website - http://www.narrywoolan.com.au (http://www.narrywoolan.com.au) - and as you say, it looks "straight-forward" on the car, problems come when the axle is on the bench

To that end I started to clean up the axle and then refitted it so that I can take it apart on the ground. The only concern is that I don't have any mechanics or interior so it will weigh a lot less, so will the springs be adequately compressed ??

The answer is probably a few sacks of cement !

In order to help fit the front axle I made a couple of locating pins from spare bolts cut  down and slotted - it made fitting the axle on my own a lot easier and reduced the risk of damaging the very fine (M10x1.00) threads. Old hubs:Drums and tie bar fitted so she can be moved around

More cleaning and painting on the chassis, this time bell housing and tunnel. The rear cross members have been stripped and painted and will be refitted today along with the trailing arms and hubs. Just cleaning the cross-members top 5hrs because of the intricacies around all the welds - the dentists drill came in handy !

Detail of the bump stops showing the rubber blocks held in place with split pins

Now the slow , laborious process of cleaning up all the bits, nuts&bolts etc for the refit ......


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 29 August, 2017, 08:58:18 AM
Just back from the trimmer - coming on beautifully .......

Needs some final adjustments and then the backs put on. I bought a couple of lengths of brass-covered lead for the trims behind the seats , so those need to be trimmed and fitted as well. No rush this end because Dog need to get the body done before I can fit the interior



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 August, 2017, 02:38:03 PM
Very nice colour and looking very comfy.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 29 August, 2017, 07:25:28 PM
I think Juliet is the best!!!!!  I know I have nothing to complain about myself, but car seats in the bedroom?......NO WAY!!!!!!!! (even if they're freshly upholstered!)

But it's going to look very smart Simon!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: peteracs on 30 August, 2017, 10:47:41 AM
I did have a windscreen and rear hood for a Beta Spyder laid on a spare bed for about a year without too many complaints.....



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 30 August, 2017, 03:38:04 PM
Not even I would get away with a set of car seats in the bedroom ..... the seats are at the trimmer's, he sells beds as well - although Juliet reckons I should get a bed installed in the garage anyway !

Started cleaning up the engine bay. Using Starchem paint stripper first then rotary paint stripper disks - plus lots of scraping. The dentist tools are very useful for the seams and corners

I forgot to show a picture of the jury rigged rear suspension - blocks of wood for suspension and broom handle to limit the toe-in (slid down the torsion bar tubes to keep them lined up)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 30 August, 2017, 04:35:49 PM
Bringing beautiful pieces of historic Lancia mechanical architecture into the house is something that should be embraced with great gusto (so long as one has remembered to clean off the bigger bits of dirt!!).

At present in the lounge I have two heads and a crankshaft secreted beneath a Victorian armchair and on my desk are the switches and some dashboard instruments all from a B20.

I must admit that when I laid out the Augusta front wings, running boards and rear wings in the lounge I did choose a time when Lynn was not in!!! I hope I have attached the correct photograph!!!!

                          Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 September, 2017, 06:00:53 AM
Love that picture ....

After a lot of paint stripper, heatgun and scraping the engine bay has had a light coat of etch-primer to protect it before the body goes off to Dog for painting

Before that I need to weld in a new side to the battery box and fill in a number of holes in the bulkhead

Over the years holes have been drilled for engine bay mods, so I am still looking for photos to get it back to original. For example, the coil had been moved onto the bulkhead and the original bracket cut off - you can see the line of weld on the RHS inner wheelarch.

This car had also had a later oiler fitted for the front suspension because of the 2nd ser axle. Because this is a very early car, I don't think that there was ever a suspension oiler fitted, but I am not sure - if anyone can help ???


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 05 September, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
This is a photo of an early chassis bodied Aprilia (No 96) engine bay, although not a pf car.
Hope it is of some help, yours looks like it has been shot at!
 ;D


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 September, 2017, 08:18:45 PM
Thanks Ade, yes it looks as if it got both barrels - I will be welding up most of the holes !

Interesting that there is no hint of an oiler in your photo - on mine there are no holes (surprisingly !) for oil pipes so I think mine was similar. Do you have any other pictures ?

It also confirms the position of the coil , that has been placed elsewhere on mine

Trying to decide whether to refit the heater ........... it would fill some holes

Vendanges has been delayed (good flavours, but not quite there yet) so, the great clean-up continues.

Few details:
Handbrake pulleys , before and after
Hand throttle mechanism - this is only half of it ! Unfortunately I am missing the throttle linkage if anyone can help ??
Steering box took an age to clean up .... and then I'm going to paint it black again !
Once bolts etc. are cleaned , they are bagged and sprayed with WD40 to stop them tarnishing. Other, more visible bits are sprayed with varnish
Diff and fuel gauge sender covers have been striped and painted - the original felt on the floor was glued in with a superglue that is nigh on impossible to remove, so I've done my best, painted it and will be recovering with felt anyway ..... don't tell anyone it's not perfect !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 06 September, 2017, 05:08:04 PM
Sorry, that is the only photo I have of an early chassis bodied Aprilia.
The front suspension oiler was only on the second series cars, so yours shouldn't have one.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 06 September, 2017, 05:37:43 PM
Which bits of the hand throttle linkage do you need?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 September, 2017, 07:04:45 PM
Thanks Ade
I am missing everything from the spring (part 38-63530) forward - including the carb !

I have a later Weber Carb that I can fit, but still need the linkage. I have a couple of people looking for bits, but so far I haven't found them

It is the only , significant , bit that is missing ....... I think !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 September, 2017, 08:38:06 PM
This is the picture that is confusing me , it shows a 39 model - ie 1st ser chassis - with something on the bulkhead ....





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 07 September, 2017, 07:45:22 AM
The item in your photo labeled as the front suspension oiler is in fact for the rear damper control. It only became available from car 6601 (Presumably standard car chassis number).
Your photo shows a 39 chassis number but does not give the prefix, so is it 239 or 439? (1st or 2nd series)
I still don't think your car should have this if it is very early.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 07 September, 2017, 07:53:32 AM
Here's a photo of a second series Aprilia chassis bodied car (Pinin Farina).
The front suspension oiler is at the top of the picture (by the washer bottle)
The brake fluid reservoir is at the bottom of the picture, and as this is an English car the rear damper control reservoir is the
copper cylinder just above the brake reservoir.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 September, 2017, 09:16:22 AM
Thanks Ade, as always you come up with a photo - I think you must have them all very well organised, unlike my mass of messy images.

Noel was in touch overnight as well with similar info about the damper-control-thing, so thanks to him as well

I have only properly had 2nd series cars before (I had EGH 119 for a while but didn't do anything with it, so it doesn't count !) so these early cars are a bit of a mystery for me


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 07 September, 2017, 05:07:14 PM
Yes I do have my photos well organised, and I have recently had all my original negative film photos digitized, so the archive of Lancia photos is quite extensive! ... did you mention EGH119.......


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 September, 2017, 08:15:29 PM
That's the one ..... as found in Ian Emery's house late 80's - as you can see he also had a Flavia Sport (ex Paul Bishop, I think) . As you may know, I bought the car but was far too poor to do anything with it and ended up selling her to Mike Powell who did a lovely job of rebuilding her (Omicron ?) - an early car if I recall - I have a few photos , but lost in my muddle !

Less of a muddle - I have begun to find the bits for the bulkhead and can slowly identify which holes to keep and which to fill in.

Inside floors have been cleaned up and painted - photo later and The steering box has been stripped and cleaned. I think they used treacle as a lubricant ! A litre of 95 octane cleaned it up nicely so tomorrow I should be able to put it back together with new , modern seals. The top seal is straight forward , and I think that I have found a seal to replace the original felt seal on the lower , output shaft - let's see if it works !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - steering box
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 September, 2017, 05:58:00 PM
Painted and back together with new oil seals (sizes and refs can be seen in the photo)

For the lower seal I used a modern oil seal, but I kept the original (leaking) felt seal as a spacer and removed the spring which I think was originally needed to retain the pressure of the felt seal on the output shaft

Newly filled with 140 oil - no leaks after 24 hrs , so lets see over time

Lastly picture of the freshly cleaned and painted inside ....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 September, 2017, 09:55:07 PM

I expect the steering box is painted with your usual rattle can (that I can't remember off hand....) but what did you use for the interior? 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 September, 2017, 07:29:38 AM
David - I use Upol acid 8 etch primer then Autoglym satin black for the bits and bobs

For the inside I have found and started using, a waterbased satin black anti-rust paint, using a small short haired roller where possible, it is a French make and takes 2 or 3 coats to give a good deep finish. It is quick, nice to use and easy to clean up

Hopefully it will last well - we will see !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 September, 2017, 10:37:31 AM
Who makes the satin black Simon? Also, where do you find Acid 8 in France or do you bring it back from your UK trips?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 12 September, 2017, 11:12:04 AM
Tried to get Blue antifreeze at local motor factors to be told it discontinued throughout France..... Also failed to get an (any) Octane booster which are freely avaiable in UK. My thoughts are the classic car market in France is not a "sophisticated" as in the UK!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 September, 2017, 12:09:14 PM
Tim - what are the differences between the different coloured anti-freezes ?

As Tim mentions, finding routine things like petrol additive , specialist paints etc can be difficult here. I often find that companies don't like working with private customers so we end up paying high prices for things when we can get them. Consequently I buy a lot in the UK where it is much more readily available and at more reasonable prices.

I wish I didn't have to !

So when friends and family come out to stay their cars are usually filled with tins of paint, waxoyl, pickled onions etc

Stan the black paint is made by Autoglym

Back to Aprilias, with a friendly blacksmith we have designed (and he has made ) a front spring compression tool that can be used with the axle on or off the car.

This morning I tried it out with a spare axle on the floor of the garage. It took a bit of heating with the induction heater (it wouldn't budge without heat) and a 5' long lever, but it went - with a crack !

Basic design is a stirrup brace with built in bottle jack holding the modified 48mm 3/4" socket in place. Once the nut was "cracked" it was very easy to release the spring, in complete safety. With a couple of further mods it will be usable on Appia axles as well


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 12 September, 2017, 12:44:58 PM
Antifreeze was discussed here:

http://www.lancisti.net/forum/showthread.php?447-ANTI-FREEZE&highlight=blue+antifreeze.

Nice bit of home invention re SP tooling!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 September, 2017, 04:22:17 PM
Tim, funny you should mention additives and antifreeze. I've become a temporary expert on antifreeze reading up lots of different sites. To save you time, what you want is Motul Inugel Classic - it's ready mixed and has none of the additives that will eat away at gaskets etc. I've found it on French ebay. You may find it in a shop in your area. I also discovered that colours mean nothing at all. Don't think all 'blues' are the same. The wrong one will still contain the damaging additives.

For fuel additives you can buy Millers VSP here in France: https://www.millersoils.fr/en/

I used to use Castrol Valvemaster Plus but now use MIllers VSP. I asked and they are compatible - just run your Castrol tank down and then swap. I seem to remember you use Valvemaster too.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 September, 2017, 08:23:09 PM
In between harvesting and wine-making I have had the odd hour here and there for playing

As part of the ongoing engine bay prep I have been working on the engine mounts:

Lots of bits have been cleaned, prepped and painted. As Ben showed in another thread, there are a myriad of bits for each mounting - more than 20 parts per mount and 4 mountings ! So lots to do

I have painted the brackets, varnished the leaf springs and greased (copaslip, I paint it on with a brush) all the inter-leaves before re-assembly. I am sure this will help reduce any potential vibration if it can all move slightly. A couple of the brackets had been over-tightened and broken (again as pointed out by Ben), so they needed to be repaired first. The inter leaves are made of something that looks just like clutch lining material.

3 of the mountings had parallel sided leaves but the other was scalloped - why ??

Once the mounts had  been loosely fitted I dropped in a spare crankcase to check alignment and also to see if the bits were correct - one of the problems with buying a car in boxes

Next job is to sort out the brakes - I don't have a complete master cylindre, so the hunt is on for all the necessary bits. I've lots of wheel cylindres and shoes (need relining) so it's a case of putting it all together

Still looking for accelerator linkage parts .....

 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 September, 2017, 07:34:17 PM
Might have found the accelerator parts (and a Zenith carb .....)

A couple of hours fun today dismantling a spare trailing arm. Everything was very, very tight and needed special tools or hook spanners. I still have to remove the trailing arm bearing, but I will need to make something to dismantle this. Both the press and induction heater had a lot of use. It was amusing to see the liquefied grease bubbling out as it all got hot !

Why , you may ask, did I do all this ? - Primarily to see how to and also to see what tools are needed in case the need arises. My trailing arms seem OK , but they are old and I have never replaced a rear wheel bearing on an Aprilia, so it seemed a good time to learn. In theory the hub should push out leaving the bearings in situ, but it was incredibly tight on the shaft so I eventually slackened off the retaining cover-nut behind the wheel-plate so the bearing could be pushed out of the housing, then I removed the bearings from the shaft afterwards

I couldn't take photos during the process - I didn't have enough hands. Some of the detail photos show the cork oil seals in place

Also, started looking at brakes. I have LOTS of shoes and will be getting 4 relined for me (riveted) - let me know if anyone else wants a set doing.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 27 September, 2017, 04:29:32 PM
J'aime beaucoup le Mehari!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 October, 2017, 07:20:05 PM
Mais ce n'est pas un Mehari, c'est un Rodeo , encore plus rare ! ie they rusted more, are less pretty so there are far fewer but they are a lot cheaper !

The Ercole got a lot of use and was ideal for the difficult tracks, being very stable - our compost heap has a regular visitor - mante religieuse in French ....

In between I am stripping , cleaning and painting bits,I continue to work out which holes can be welded - red X is to fill, black O to keep.

As well as this I have been going through my boxes of bits to see what is missing, especially since I am going back to a 1350 setup. I have lots of spares, but there are always bits to find.

This car had been running with an Appia 32 PBIC carb for example. A correct Zenith has been sourced along with the linkage


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 October, 2017, 07:26:21 PM

The under bonnet shot has a CSI look to it.

Good effort on the trailing arm!!!   Worthy of a Viva write up, perhaps it being "an induction heater article" with that just as an example?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 02 October, 2017, 10:54:42 PM
That's a lot of red crosses ..... !!

                       Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 October, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Yes - some welding to do ! - It does look a bit like a dysfunctional noughts and crosses and David, I am not sure there would be many in the LMC who would find trailing arms as "sexy" as we do here ......

Good news on the parts-searching-front, I have found a Zenith carb and all the bits to fit it correctly, plus a correct starting handle.

NB there is a VERY dodgy chap in Italy who advertised a starting handle, with photo , but when it arrived it was completely different to the photo (not Aprilia) and did not fit either of my cars, plus he would not accept it back - I would say that was fraud

I rarely share bad experiences like these because they can get lost in translation , but not here, I have the proof !

His name is Giovanni Mungo from VintageItalianCar - avoid like the plague


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 09 October, 2017, 06:19:21 PM
Thank you for flagging that one up for us!!!

I'm glad you managed to source the correct handle anyway!!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Lapsed Cesare Ferrari on 10 October, 2017, 10:10:14 AM
I am sorry to hear that Simon has had a bad experience with Giovanni Mungo. I have had a few useful things from him, and he sells excellent remade Aprilia hubcaps.
Caveat emptor though of course.
Cesare


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 October, 2017, 07:01:04 AM
More positive news this time - my chrome is back ...... and it is beautiful ! Most of it is still wrapped up but here is a sneak preview of the steering wheel. At the Avignon Motor festival earlier this year I met some guys who are based near Beziers but who work with a company in Barcelona . There is little or no chroming done in France now , only spray chrome where it is done .  I am very happy with the quality and the price seems reasonable (although still expensive !)

I tried out the new carb/linkage parts to see if everything is there - seems OK, I just need a small modification on the end of the butterfly spindle to locate the horizontal bar

Plus, the great clean up continues, the sump has probably taken 2 days to clean up if you include stripping the oil pump, taking the filter apart etc. The sump plug had to be drilled and cut before it would move.

Last job was to remove the gearknob so the lever can be re-chromed - another job for the heat induction thing because there was no way I could unscrew it by hand. A bit of gentle heat and it unthreaded easily without any damage to the bakelite


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 15 October, 2017, 12:50:06 PM
I see you have solved the problem of engine suspension springs but, please tell us, how do you get the engine to levitate in the engine compartment?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancianut666 on 15 October, 2017, 06:16:11 PM
That throttle linkage looks like it could of been part of the Titanic...
Clarkey


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 October, 2017, 10:25:13 AM
That steering wheel is just gorgeous. How was it chromed? Do the spokes and boss detach from the bakelite?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 October, 2017, 07:23:50 PM
David - it is a bit Harry Potter - "crankcasaium leviosa" and the Titanic had nothing on an Aprilia, they last a lot longer !

Stan, the wheel had a corded grip that I had to remove (will find an old photo later) then hub and rim were rechromed , the boss and centre were done separately. I will unwrap everything later in the week and take photos. At some point , I will find a way of re-doing the wheel with string/cord. Last time it was green , I will reflect on that one !

Next batch of chrome has gone off to be re-done

Having cleaned up lots of bits, it is time to start putting them back together. I started on the bottom end of the engine today. The machining has been done by Serdi UK - new pistons & liners, NOS conrods fitted with shells, ground crank, white-metaled mains , new studs etc etc - I have bought houses for less than this all cost  ...... but it is beautiful !

However, you still have to check it all. The oil pressure relief valve was completely gummed up, blocked and needed cleaning , also the big-ends have split pins and once you have the oilway fitted the split pins fouled it, so they needed to be trimmed. You also have to be careful how the baffle plates are refitted because they will go back both ways but need to be forced one way which risks breaking the vertical plate mountings - I think that this is the correct way !

This engine is made up from a number of donors (not surprising after nearly 80 yrs) so it is back to square one for the timing. So a new TDC has been identified, distributor drive synchronised and new timing chain and wheels fitted.

To get the distributor drive right I set 1&3 at TDC , left out out the peg (can't remember the correct word !!) on the crank so that the front pulley and drive can move, rotated the dizzy driveshaft so when it was pointing to #1 , the +ve supply and capacitor are 180° from the block and don't foul - allowing future timing adjustment. Once done , the peg was refitted

Aprilias don't have modern oil seals , but spiral throwers - a thread on the front and back of the crank that uses surface tension to return the oil back to the crankcase, so it is important to ensure that the surfaces are clean and even. I am sure that someone can explain this much more clearly ....... it is all very carefully machined and no sump gasket is used, so again all surfaces must be clean and have no damage.

So , bottom end finished , next is the top end . I have found everything , now I need to see what needs to be replaced/machined ..... and while I am waiting for that I can start on the ancillaries - for example, I need to get a working petrol pump and filter from this lot !




Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 18 October, 2017, 04:07:58 PM
Yes, Serdi are excellent but, beware!  You have an engine assembled from many others, i.e. a bitza.   NOS con rods (qu'est que c'est?)?    When they did mine they made some new con rods in steel as they reckoned that the original alloys would break.  As the originals weigh 600g and the new ones 800 g (from memory) the engine was wildly out of balance, unbeknown to me.    Vibration Free, to whom I took it before putting it in the car justincase told me it nearly jumped off the rig.   Narrow V4s are very fussy indeed about any change in the mass of the components.  At the very least I would advise running it on the bench (with radiator attached of course - you can use crankcasia leviosa again to simplify matters).   It should be smooth as silk and any vibration should earn it a trip to Vibration Free (assembled short engine minus piston rings but with a set included for them to apply appropriate weights to the piston tops).   In fact, if it were mine, I'd send it anyway.   If it is sweet it costs little as they charge by time (the Aprilia took so long that they only charged me 1/2 time as a favoured customer I suppose - or they were a bit embarrassed on my behalf). 
p.s. I am surprised cankcasium leviosa worked, I am sure the Latin Grammar is wrong but I do not have my wand with me at the moment to try them out.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 October, 2017, 08:03:38 PM
David, thank you for your comments. I deliberated long and hard during the rebuild process about steel rods and decided against for 2 reasons - 1/ I didn't want to increase the reciprocating weight and then have to re-balance everything, as per your experience & 2/ I have a number of original, new and unused conrods that haven't been through the same mechanical "challenges" as most 70 yr old rods.

I also decided not to increase the engine capacity or increase the compression ratio and to stay roughly with the original setup. As with everything, time will tell !

In between wine-sales planning (we are shipping a small quantity of wine to a bonded warehouse in the UK for interested parties - please let me know if you would like to buy a case ....) I have been busy with the top end today

Head has been de-coked, fitted with new valves & springs. One of the inner springs was broken on this head, so I decided to change the lot - I have several sets of new springs if anyone is interested. Head has been painted and is now ready to fit. The old-school spring compressor was good for 7 of 8 valves .... the last one was done with a push type compressor which leaves a bruise on the solar-plexus

The rest of the afternoon was spent dismantling, cleaning and rebuilding the rocker gear.

Aprilia rocker gear can suffer from poor lubrication due to insufficient oil changes and a poor filtration system - compare the 2 cam followers - so I have gone through my spares and chosen the best followers I have and also fitted all new tappets. Some of the followers just need a light stoning but others were way beyond.

I had to remove the end plugs (just like core plugs) of the central shaft to clean it properly, all the lubrication holes were blocked and the rod was filled with a sludge that would have been more at home on the Brent oil fields

The cams suffer equally badly, and this is the best one I have . It has an unusual peg on the back , so presumably was for a rev counter or something ??

A few gratuitous photos to satisfy the detail-loving amongst us !

ps I made a new bracket and fitted the coil in the correct position .......
 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 October, 2017, 10:34:33 AM
Next phase started today ..... the shell has gone off to Dog's new workshop for final welding and painting - it does mean that I will have to choose a colour scheme !

The shell is remarkably light once all the bits are removed, 2 of us managed to push it up onto the trailer very easily.

My garage now seems very empty so first job is to clean up and put everything away



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 24 October, 2017, 08:45:16 AM
Simon, as ever fascinating stuff and great to hear how well things come together and the immense satisfaction everyone gets who read and reply to your threads.

Took this photo in Paris (Rue Charonne) its appears theres a classic/vintage bikers meetup there on a Sunday, thought it was amusing!

P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 30 October, 2017, 10:51:14 AM
You can't have an empty workshop! What are we going to read? Wheel the Fulvia in!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: JohnMillham on 05 November, 2017, 08:07:38 PM
You could add that at stage 3 take feeler gauge measurements 'till the two clearances are the same.
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 06 November, 2017, 12:22:22 PM
"Aprilias have a slightly odd cylinder numbering system, starting with #1 nearest the rad and then going around the head clockwise, not staggered with distance from the rad (ie on an Aprilia #3 would be #4 on a traditional numbering system)

However, firing order is in the opposite direction ie anti-clockwise - 1,4,3,2"

Same for Lambdas and, presumably, Gussies and Artenas also.  Cannot remember if it applies to the Fulvia (and I am not going to go and look)!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 06 November, 2017, 01:38:22 PM
This is vital information, and presented brilliantly. The photographs explain the procedures so well.....!!!
Worth printing/laminating for the garage wall!
 
Thanks all!
Tim


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 November, 2017, 06:54:55 PM
Thanks Tim !

There is, I think, an error on the previous post, so I have removed it and will update once I have checked a couple of things - I don't want to mis-lead !

Re engine numbering, maybe its a pre/post war thing .... Appia and Fulvia are both staggered, I can't remember how Aurelias/Flaminias  are done , but I think they are staggered as well - I am sure someone will enlighten us !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - valve timing
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 November, 2017, 09:37:16 PM
I reviewed this and have made a couple of minor adjustments ....but it is all to do with an odd numbering system and an "error" in the original literature.

Noel in Australia has written it up slightly differently, so please look at his excellent website as well

Plus re-reading the Forum pages, "Welleyes" identified a similar "problem" with numbering in Oct 2016, which was discussed by several people at the time

My version , and it works for me :

-------------------------------------------------//---------------------------------------------

I don't know if this has been written up recently , and I'm sure that other Aprilia owners may have a different way of doing it, but here is how I set the valve timing from scratch.

Aprilias have a slightly odd cylinder numbering system, starting with #1 nearest the rad, by the carb, on the off-side (but second back from the front) and then going around the head anti-clockwise - not staggered with distance from the rad

The firing order follows this ie 1,2,3,4

Additional confusion maybe caused because some distributor caps are marked up as firing 1,3,4,2 - presumably later fitments from other cars. I have some caps that just have #1 marked - So care need when fitting plug leads !

This confusion may have been compounded because the original literature (UK and French shown here) suggested that the firing order is 2,1,3,4 !! - but this isn't possible unless the distributor does a kind of hop-scotch .....

So , I find that the easiest thing to do is imagine that #1 is the piston nearest the radiator and then number anti-clockwise, because this leaves both #1 (near rad) & #3 (back off-side, carb side) at TDC when the -0- mark lines up with the 1/3 on the crankcase.

So now:
1/ Set both tappets on #1 at 0.45 mm
2/ With dowel removed , rotate engine to TDC ie "0" tooth to 1/3 mark on crankcase (ie pistons 1 & 3 at TDC)
3/ Ensure rotor arm pointing to #3 position (not 3 on the cap - see above)
4/ Rotate camshaft so that #1 EX valve closes and IN opens - with the tappet set at this precise gap, there is less than half a flywheel-tooth of movement between one tappet and the other moving
5/ Fit the dowel in the to the closest aligned hole - vernier setup so very accurate, nb the dowel has an internal thread for easy removal
6/ Tighten the front camchain nut ensuring that the holes in the washer line up with the dowel
7/ Reset all the tappets to 0.25 mm (IN & EX)

I then rotate the engine a few times and then check it all again

I modified an old screwdriver to rotate the tappet and used an 11 mm brake spanner for the nut - less risk of damage to the nuts


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 November, 2017, 10:22:40 PM
More progress while I'm waiting for the rest of the leaves to fall off the vines and I can start pruning ....

Dog has prepped and primed some of the panels and will be starting on the main body this coming week, but he has a long-term job painting one of the luxury, canal hotel barges and will only have a day a week for the next couple of months, unless it rains ...

Plus I collected the new leather interior in the furgoncino this morning, it is beautiful and just needs sitting on !

Finally, I keep plugging away at various bits and pieces. I have made up a new petrol pipe between the new pump and carb ( copper pipe and soldered banjos), stripped and cleaned the filter and started rebuilding the waterpump.

A couple of pictures to keep you up to date, more later !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 08 November, 2017, 11:11:32 PM
Upholstery in the back of the Furgoncino looks slightly disreputable. If the van's a rocking don't come knocking.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 09 November, 2017, 08:34:43 AM
Is there another anchor for that fuel pipe to kill any harmonic vibration on the long length? It is similar to the B12 arrangement which anchored on the head as it comes up from the pump....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 November, 2017, 05:16:15 PM
A Ken Dodd word - 'Plumptious' - came to mind when I saw those lovely seats.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: ben on 10 November, 2017, 12:19:17 AM
  I think I may have said this all before but my view on the Aprilia firing order confusion is that the numbers on the rocker cover in the handbook are not meant to be the cylinder numbers but are the firing order sequence.
  The cylinder numbers are the same as the numbers on the pistons and big-end caps etc that is to say no 1 is at the front and 2,3,and 4 follow sequentially as you move back along the engine which is the same as any straight four cylinder engine.
  Quite why Vincenzo chose to start the firing order sequence indicators at cylinder no 2 I do not know but it may be because that cylinder is the nearest to the distributor. Anyway as the numbers are only meant to indicate the firing sequence it does not matter where you start.
  Things do still get confusing however because these sequence numbers are then used as labels on the flywheel window timing mark, 1/3 as shown in Simon's excellent photo's.

  It follows from this interpretation of the handbook data that the sequence 2 1 3 4 (which is of course exactly the same sequence as the more familiar 1 3 4 2 ) refers to the traditional cylinder numbers as defined above.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 November, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
Tim, as far as I am aware, there isn't an additional support on an early set up, however on my 2nd series there is an extra bracket on the side of the radiator, so maybe it was a (potential) problem - bit like the extra support for the top of the rad to rocker cover

Thanks for your comments Ben, I still get confused when reading original data because so much of it is contradictory - the French write up for the Ardennes doesn't help clarify either !

Water pump - I have been waiting on some bits, namely new bearing and graphite string for packing the seal - very old-school.

I have fitted a 'sealed' bearing and 3mm square packing cord, made sure the compressor spring and washer slide properly so pressure is placed on the seal etc etc. There is a lot of boring detail in setting up an Aprilia pump, so I hope it doesn't leak

The keen Aprilia-detail-spotters will have noticed that I have used a second series water pump body , only because I don't have any new 1st series ones , I have just blanked off the unused waterways with appropriate "Lancia" stamped plugs !

Radiator and dynamo next .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 17 November, 2017, 05:17:42 PM
I hereby confess that I have just fitted a couple of modern lip seals to my pump.  They are invisible and work perfectly!.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 November, 2017, 06:24:02 PM
David - did you find a standard size or machine the piece ?

If standard , what size did you use and where did they come from, because if I am honest I would have done the same if it meant doing it without machine-work



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 18 November, 2017, 09:22:14 AM

1 x 8x18x6mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal with Garter Spring R21 / SC
£1.89
£1.89
2 x 8x15x5mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal Springless Design R23 / TC
£1.89
£3.78
from https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/
by return of post pretty well.  May take a little longer to France or you could use your own local supplier.  No machining required.   I cannot quite remember if I used them all but certainly at least one goes in the housing for the original seal and is held in by the screw cap, the small one I guess.  A look at the rotted pump will tell you!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 February, 2018, 06:10:38 PM
Even though I haven't posted for a while things are progressing , albeit slowly !

Dog has done a significant amount of prep on the platform, louvres and bonnet and they are nearly ready for primer. The wings have all been straightened and had various dings redressed, but there is no hurry on this because I need to get the Fulvia out of the way before the platform can come back

Today the second batch of chrome came back - very shiny, afterwards anyway. The grill flutes have had a lot of work done and they look great, need to mask and paint the recesses next. The chromers have not overdone the initial polishing and all the batch numbers are still visible - which is nice! Plus they masked the threads, where asked, so hopefully I won't have problems refitting ( mainly the gear lever)

Expensive, but not outrageous !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 06 February, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Wow!!! The chroming turned out very well, Simon! The stamped numbers are clear to see. Was there any difficulty chroming the bonnet handles?
 
Regards,
Tim


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 06 February, 2018, 04:00:23 PM
Shiny bits set it all off Simon, you're steaming along, brilliant as always.


P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 28 February, 2018, 10:32:35 AM
Simon, I know its all a bit late in the day, plus it may have been mentioned before or indeed you have the copy concerned, but in the VL edition of April 2002, theres a Jack Romano translated article on the restoration of an Aprilia convertible of 1940 vintage. If you don't have it let me know and I can do a photocopy/scan.

Secondly, theres also an technical notes article on Aurelia and Aprilia distributors by John savage in the March 2005 edition.




Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 September, 2018, 07:46:41 PM
Bit of a delay since my last post ...... but lots going on with Fulvias, Appias , motorbikes/ercole and last but not least, Aprilias

Dog has had the chassis for a while and has done a lot of the body prep, straightening out dents, welding up the "noughts and crosses" in the engine bay and making a new battery box

I have had the engine ready for a while so am starting on the clutch/gearbox

Having found all the correct bits (I think !) I have started cleaning them all. First job is the clutch mechanism. It is an early car so I am going with the 6 spring set up. It has the smallest plate size, but hopefully with with a new back plate, friction plate and new springs it will be good enough

If anyone wants to see the later version let me know and I can post pictures. The later release fork and friction disk diametre are different as well, but as far as I can make out, they will fit an early bell-housing.

One question around release bearings - I have 2 types and am not sure if they both fit. I think they will but if anyone has any thoughts please let me know
 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 06 September, 2018, 12:19:52 PM
Hi Simon!
Dog's work on the battery box is very neat. But what is the purpose of the box on the left?
 
regards,
Tim


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 September, 2018, 05:54:38 PM
Hi Tim, the jack, handle and tools fit in there. If I decide to add a screen washer, the reservoir could fit as well


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 September, 2018, 09:02:07 PM

"Screen washer" needed a seat in the car back then, or a tip at the petrol station.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - clutches
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 September, 2018, 11:29:23 AM
David - you might have to explain that one to me ......

More clutch musings.

Shown are photos of all 3 clutch types - early, late 1st ser and 2nd ser

As far as I can make out, all 3 fit inside the same bellhousing, so theoretically a 2nd ser could fit an S1 if the flywheel is changed, but I don't have an S1 available off an engine to measure. The S1 flywheels that I have all appear to be drilled to take early and later clutches

The later S1 clutch fits the early flywheel, the holes line up.

Also the later release bearing (late S1 & S2) should fit the early S1 plate

All S1 plates appear to be the same and markedly smaller in diametre than the S2

The release fork and clutch withdrawl mechanism are significantly smaller on the early S1 and the release arm is straight compared to the curved later arm. It appears as if the curved arm fits S1 & S2

Finally, the early set up doesn't have an extra spring between the mechanism and gearbox

The pivot/oil filter activator arm appear to be the same across all versions

I can take my anorak off now ......



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: GG on 13 September, 2018, 12:24:36 PM
Well done! Great to see this level of detail...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 13 September, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
Well done! Great to see this level of detail...

Plus one!

Invaluable Simon, another very useful post, do keep wearing that anorak!!

P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 September, 2018, 05:33:47 PM
Thanks for your comments.

We have a bit of a lull in the harvest now. First batch of early drinking red (syrah) and a rosé (carignan) have been picked and Jules is doing her "stuff" - I just have to go into the winery now and again to lift things or prevent leaks !

I have an S1 box that hasn't been used for years so want to strip, check and clean it. However I have never stripped an Aprilia 'box before so am doing it slowly and carefully

So far the front and rear housings are off and the selectors removed. Plus I have removed the bearing locator dowels. They are threaded so a set screw, washer and nut were used to withdraw them

A question for you Aprilia-owners out there is how best to remove the shafts and gears. Ideally I would like to keep them as complete as possible. So any tips will be greatly received


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - gearbox
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 September, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
Bit more today ....

Firstly thanks to fellow forumistes David Wheeler and Noel Macwhirter for their help and guidance

Following their advice I sourced a bigger oven to heat the gearbox because it wouldn't fit in my garage one nor was Jules happy for me to use the kitchen one - and you thought she was tolerant !

So I went to the tip and found one in a skip, re-wired it and then heated the gearbox up to about 80°C for an hour. Once done the primary shaft popped out by gently tapping the mainshaft with a rubber hammer. It came out of the front of the 'box complete with bearing and top gear.
Next , I tapped the rest of the mainshaft forward, leaving all the other gears in place, lifting them out afterwards

Once the top row was out, the layshaft came out backwards, again leaving the gears in place to be lifted out later (taking care to note the spacers and correct order)

I haven't taken reverse out yet because it took me a time to find the correct thread for removing the shaft (M10x1.00) and I need to heat the box up again

Pretty good news, apart from it being dirty, all the bearings are perfect and there is only wear on first gear - usual Aprilia problem, being straight cut, but I have seen much, much worse

Next job is to clean it all up and re-assemble

Dog has also finished the engine bay and it has been painted satin black

ps the other photo shows the freed-off pinch bolt that holds the rear gearbox sillentboc mounting in place. This car should have the other type of mounting - a single, rear mounted affair - but has been changed at some time in the past for the sturdier crossbar type


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 September, 2018, 06:29:15 PM

A good workshop asset.  See any dishwashers?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 15 September, 2018, 04:23:00 PM
Aprilia clutches all judder.    I understand that the proper friction plates are designed to obviate this problem in that the friction rings are rivetted to alternate arms/blades of the metal plate so that there is compliance when the clutch takes up.  Does anyone know if this is true or just a figment of my imagination?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - gearbox
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 September, 2018, 05:13:29 PM
Re judder - my 2nd ser isn't bad at all, maybe they got better !

David, not sure about dishwashers, but Juliet thinks that maybe I should have a bed out there

Back to gearboxes - it is back together and all gears select correctly and it is a lot cleaner. Re-fitting wasn't too difficult. The case went back into the oven then it was put back in the following order:

-Reverse gear and shaft
-Lay-shaft pushed in from the back - the gears all marked so they went back in the same position as when it was built originally
-Rear output shaft bearing was fitted with the dowel
-Gears placed in the box and then the mainshaft was pushed through from the front - there is an important thing to remember, 1st gear has    a recessed inner tooth that has to line up with the double-ball-bearing on the shaft. If anyone is interested I can add some photos of this
-Primary shaft and bearing pushed in from the front
-Selector forks fitted and then the pushrods fitted and bolts fitted

The only things that required particular care were the bearing dowels - they are very precise. In case anyone didn't notice, the bearings all have a groove on the outside which has to line up with the dowels that are fitted though holes in the side of the box, again more photos if of interest

Next job is to make new gaskets and then finish putting it back together


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 15 September, 2018, 06:04:59 PM
The gearbox all looks very 'Aurelia like' but no surprise there. Early Aurelia clutches are often relined incorrectly with the new linings riveted to every paddle  - the linings should only be riveted to alternate paddles which gives a smooth take up.
Great photos by the way - close up photography is an art in itself.
How is your grape harvest going? Our Pinella grape harvest   has been a record volume wise @ 1,485 kgs from our upper vineyard (but the sugar content could have done with being a little higher) and  other growers of white wine grapes in our area have had very poor crops due to summer heat. Our lower vineyard which we let out had poor volume this year.
Chris


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Martin9 on 15 September, 2018, 06:16:43 PM
Hi Simon,

What an amazingly well timed post.

Only yesterday I acquired 2 Aprilia gearboxes that need some tlc to make into one good-un.

Keep on posting!

Martin


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 September, 2018, 08:57:22 PM

Obviously the press is a lovely thing to have, but could it be done without it?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 17 September, 2018, 04:12:00 PM
I have never used my press to assemble my gearbox - if it is warm enough the bearings go in no problem with maybe a light tap from a copper hammer.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 September, 2018, 08:05:18 PM
I found the press "nice to have" and it gave me a bit more control , especially when refitting the bearing dowels. It is right next to my bench and is always available , so I tend to use it quite a lot


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 September, 2018, 06:36:55 PM
Gearbox finished, complete with newly made gaskets (4 in all) and new chromed gear-lever and cuff.

The front cover inside the bell-housing has studs and set screws, I assumed that the screws were to accurately locate the cover so I fitted those before tightening up the nuts

Moved onto the dynamo and starter motor that have now been stripped and checked prior to repainting and assembly



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 September, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
Another job ticked off - worst job was removing the paint from a previous refurbishment - horrible brushed gloss !

Everything was in good condition except the starter motor contact which is a triangular copper block, so I turned it around to get a new face.
The dynamo needed a new wire soldering in and I had to dig through the spares to find a good regulator

The list is getting shorter .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 September, 2018, 06:16:03 PM
Brakes next - so trying to conjure up something from this little lot

I did find a couple of good master-cylindres, honed them and chose the best and fitted new seals. The braking system appears to be a real mix of metric and imperial so I need to measure each thread and make sure I have the correct union.

Early Aprilias have Lockhead brakes whereas the later, 2nd series have Sabif. There are a lot of differences so care needs to be taken

I tidied up a 2 blade fan, but it was a bit "silk purse from sow's ear" because this one has had a significant amount of welding in the past, so if there is a nicer one out there , please let me know

I am hoping to get the chassis back from Dog in the next 10 days, so any spare time is being spent getting bits ready ......


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 September, 2018, 04:33:45 PM
Quick update ....

Brake parts cleaned ready for fitting. Strange mix of metric and imperial. I have 2 brake flexi connectors - one brass , one steel - the first is metric (M10x1.5) and the other is imperial (7/16 x 20 bsf , I think) but both fit the same female, metric union ..... all original parts

The air filter was a surprise. I undid the lugs holding it together and just about caught all the aluminium tubes locked inside - 2027 in all ...

A question - was wrinkle paint used pre-war ???

I want a petrol resistant paint for the filter because I think that they must have been cleaned in petrol as a single unit originally. The handbook just says "air filter". 2nd series have a removable , separate filter


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 22 September, 2018, 05:06:08 PM
I think the correct paint finish for the filter is just a satin to gloss black. I never cleaned mine with petrol, just occasionally blew it through with an air gun. I'm sure that the correct number of pellets is 2031 😁 you can always add a couple of drilled out air gun pellets!!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 23 September, 2018, 07:58:01 AM
I believe wrinkle-finish paint was introduced in the 1950s, but crackle-finish (a very similar effect but with flat plates of colour) was certainly around in the late 1920s. It was commonly used on radio fittings, but also featured, for example, on the dashboards of fabric-bodied Austin Sevens in 1929. Here's an example I did earlier (like thirty years ago!) on a later Austin dash panel:

(https://i.postimg.cc/h4pss4T4/007.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 23 September, 2018, 09:42:43 AM
I think crackle finish is standard Augusta rocker cover and that is what I intend to use unless corrected by others on here!!!
It does all look very impressive ....... I have a lot of other 'stuff' on my plate at the moment so will not be back to the cars in the immediate future, but they are on my mind!!
Good luck with all the bits and there is the excitement of the shell coming back from Dog.

                                               Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 September, 2018, 06:47:50 PM
I'm going to have to re-visit the wrinkle/not to wrinkle question later. It needs to be a petrol resistant paint for the top and bottom and either nickel or chrome finish for the middle. I can run the engine without for the time being so I will park the problem for a while ....

Now to another conundrum - wiring

I have been going over various wiring diagrams for 12 and 6 v systems and I have come across a number of questions for (more) modern use:

Firstly, I have decided to stick with a 12v system even though it would originally have been 6v. At some time during its history the car was converted to 12v and although I have all the 6v bits, it makes sense to stay with 12v - it looks identical apart from the battery.

I need to fit indicators and L/R brake lights, so need to include circuits for this - so do I keep the original trafficators as well ?

I need headlights that dip via a simple, quick switch. The original set up appears to use the central switch (that needs the key to be turned) to switch between dip and main. I had never thought about this before because my 2nd ser has a (later ?) foot switch to change the dip/main

Also, the central push button on the steering wheel is for horn and lights on some circuit diagram/descriptions, with a separate button at the side of the dash for night use ..... 

First job has been to study all the wiring diagrams (6v,12v and differences between cabrio and saloon) and understanding how it was done originally, next is to dismantle and work out how the switches and relays work. Hopefully once I've got my head around all that I can design a loom that looks correct and works at the same time

Or do I just stick to the original and live with the irritations ??

All comments greatly received !







Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: nistri on 25 September, 2018, 07:36:27 AM
"The original set up appears to use the central switch (that needs the key to be turned) to switch between dip and main. I had never thought about this before because my 2nd ser has a (later ?) foot switch to change the dip/main
Also, the central push button on the steering wheel is for horn and lights on some circuit diagram/descriptions, with a separate button at the side of the dash for night use ....."

Interestingly, this is precisely the same wiring system of my original 1947 (6 V) Ardea. I quite like it   :), Andrea


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 September, 2018, 12:34:08 PM

Is there a good reason not to keep the trafficators as well? They're a crowd pleaser and never fail to make me smile when I see them in action.  There are trafficator bulbs with built in flashers but not very bright. I think "safety indicators" placed somewhere unseen when off and very obvious when on are important if its going to see a lot of use.

http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/festoon-bulbs.php

For dip/main a foot switch is (relatively) hidden, and you're used to it, and has that "it might have always been there" look to it.  Other options for "both hands on the wheel" use are a stalk clamped to the steering column or a long toggle off the dash.

These days "ask Alexa to dip the lights"...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 September, 2018, 12:37:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nr59zPRlsA


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 25 September, 2018, 06:13:14 PM
You have done so much work already I would renew the wiring and build it the way you want. Definitely keep the trafficators and add the flashing upgrade but add discrete modern indicators where other drivers will be looking for them as well.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 September, 2018, 05:31:30 PM
Thanks for your comments - I have had a couple of pm's as well. Still reflecting , but moving more towards keeping the key switch - I can always add something later

Fun day today, and probably the last in the garage for a while because we do the next and final batch of vendanges this week. The Syrah will be picked on Friday , then the Carignan Tuesday - so lots of prep !

Clutch mechanism is fitted inside the bellhousing before bolting the 'box to the engine. It means that there is no need for a clutch aligning tool as the plate is on the input shaft and fits straight into the bearing in the flywheel.

Following up some "clutch plate discussion" the rivets on an Aprilia are also on alternate sides on alternate plates on a double-plate system

Once the 'box is bolted to the engine you rotate the engine and clutch until the M6 bolt holes line up (wavy spring plate) loosely fit the first one, rotate the whole lot, fit the second 120° further round then a third another 120° further round. If you try and tighten one side before moving on it can tip and bind.
Once the 6 x M6 bolts have been fitted, then you start with the big springs, doing the same thing. Once they are all in and lightly tightened then you go round them and tighten them fully - I put a blob of orange paint on to identify those that have been done, so as not to forget one !

Then the oil-filter activation arm pinch bolt needs to be tightened

A quick check with a long lever on the arm to see if it disengages and selecting all the gears ,then it's done

Next up was to fit the oil pump (more gasket making) , oil filter (yet more gaskets), oil, oil pressure pipe and gauge, starter motor.
Connect to a battery and push the starter lever

After about 20-30 seconds the pressure came up - just below "normale" but I reckon that's OK on starter motor alone. With the rocker cover off you can see everything moving nicely and oil flowing around the cam and followers

Lastly, I have tried to renovate another brake fluid reservoir that I found in my spares, it has the original Lockheed writing on it, albeit quite damaged. It is in French which is in keeping with my desire to keep the car as a "french" car ....

I stripped the paint but before doing that I protected the writing with an acrylic spray and then masked it. If it looks "moche" I can always fit a nice shiny one !

(moche = grotty, tatty, un-appealing - a great word !)

Dog has been fitting the doors and finishing the cills ready for painting


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 27 September, 2018, 05:35:10 PM
I also have the trafficators but be aware they will not park over about 20mph.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 September, 2018, 06:08:41 PM

....so they double as "air brakes"...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 September, 2018, 06:13:57 PM

Always a treat to see the valve gear, and good clutch advice to remember is here.  ONE DAY I'll pull everything out into a note.  Once upon a time I'd have been cutting and pasting as it came in but am no longer that organised.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: ColinMarr on 27 September, 2018, 09:06:13 PM
I also have the trafficators but be aware they will not park over about 20mph.
And as I remember it, they rise up out of their housings at 70mph and above, but thankfully they don't light up!
Colin


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 28 September, 2018, 02:38:39 PM
Fascinating reading, as always, Simon  :)
The pictures are really captivating......but would love to have seen a video of you spinning up the motor!!!
Sorry, I'm being selfish  ;D
 
Keep 'em coming,
Tim


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 29 September, 2018, 07:32:47 PM
I've not noticed mine rising up at 70mph +


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 October, 2018, 07:16:33 PM
Bit quiet again due to ongoing harvest.

The Carignan is due to be picked tomorrow so the winery has been set up. the red machine in the foreground is an "egrappoir" or de-stemmer.
It is probably older than the Cabrio and makes a great sound , a bit like "chuckety-chuckety-chinese-chicken" - it has a cover over the tube with holes in it and you put the whole bunches in one end, the grapes fall out of the bottom into the "queue de cochon" or pig's tail and get pumped into the tank via the red tube.
The stripped stems come out the other end and get carted off to the compost heap in the Ercole

All very basic and labour intensive

In between other jobs I have stripped and cleaned a couple of carbs with a view to getting a correct, original Zenith 32 VIML set-up. The car had been running on a orphanised Solex carb without any of the proper linkage. I have managed to source most of the bits but I am not 100% sure it is all there yet !

It is complex,typical Lancia over-engineering. I will post photos of the linkage later

Anyway, back to wine making ......

ps last photo was last Friday morning at 7am and it is the moon , not the sun

pps I noticed that our spell checker has changed bast**dised to orphanised , makes a change to co-bottom


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 03 October, 2018, 11:03:26 AM
Love that Ercole. Being grey it always reminds me of a Kettenkrad.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 03 October, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
You could always buy an Ercole, there is one for sale in Toulouse !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 October, 2018, 12:18:34 PM
Quick update

The Cabrio is staying with Dog for a while longer because he doesn't want me to have it back to refit and then be returned for wing fitting etc.
He would rather all the prep was done first ... oh well, better find another project !

As part of the prep he has re-profiled one of the front wings so it is the same as the other side , it needed a small piece cutting out just before the running board, then re-welded. New wing struts were also made, because they support the bottom edge of the wing. They were missing on both sides

A lot of time has been spent planishing the wings so as reduce the amount of eventual filler.It all looks a lot straighter and both sides match !

Interesting detail on the LHS front wing (Off-side on the continent) - 5 bolt holes on the front and 3 on the top. They have been filled in and ground down, but they look very much as if the were the support plate for something - flagstaff maybe ??

I still have a feeling that this car was in France during the war and possibly survived because it was used by some high ranking official - who knows ?



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 24 October, 2018, 07:50:34 PM
I wonder if the holes line up with a Notek light?  Be great to know it's history. Did you escape the terrible flash floods? They were very close to you.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 October, 2018, 07:57:37 PM
Thanks Stan
The floods were all around us. Our village was OK because they did a lot of work recently, following the floods in the late 90's - early 00's

Other villages fared less well. It was a lot worse than you saw on the telly - but the response was fantastic.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 25 October, 2018, 11:08:25 AM
Some, like me, may not know what a Notek light is so I looked it up.

Many of the FHC’s German vehicles are equipped with a “Notek light” for night driving.
The unit was named after the company, Nova-Technik GmbH, that made them in Munich.
The 35-watt bulb under the hooded housing shines backwards, against a mirror. That reflected light spills out onto the roadway from under the helmet-like hood. It illuminates the road to about 100 to 130 feet ahead of the vehicle in a roughly 80-foot swath.
The light had three settings; dim, medium, and full. The dim setting made the vehicle’s light invisible from the air at altitudes above 2,000 feet. Lights on the full setting became hard to see at over 6,400 feet.



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 25 October, 2018, 04:11:54 PM
They sound rather better than standard Aprilia lights then.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 25 October, 2018, 04:15:55 PM
Frank,
Not the notek lights I remember from my youth, which I think was a normal round spotlight but an extended blue cone in the centre of the lense.
I'll look for an old advert for them.
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 October, 2018, 05:06:11 PM
Frank's example was the one I had in mind. They were fitted to just about every German vehicle. They also had an ingenious rear light with three lens. Can't remember exactly how they worked now but by keeping certain colours lined up in convoy at night you were spaced correctly.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 October, 2018, 08:05:43 PM
I didn't know what it was either , so thanks for educating me !

Not sure it is one of those because the mountings look different


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 27 October, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
Google 'Notek spotlight 1960',
This is the Notek lights I remember.
Brian
8227
 8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 27 October, 2018, 10:55:35 PM
Simon, I chose that picture because the light is mounted on a bracket with four holes arranged in an oblong. I reasoned that the central hole of your five might have been from something else at a different time. However Noteks don't commonly seem to appear on commandeered civilian cars and where they do they seem to be mounted rather further forward.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 28 October, 2018, 08:41:05 AM
Frank's example was the one I had in mind. They were fitted to just about every German vehicle. They also had an ingenious rear light with three lens. Can't remember exactly how they worked now but by keeping certain colours lined up in convoy at night you were spaced correctly.
We had to follow the vehicle in front by watching the white ring painted on the rear duff,
Nothing sophisticated to judge distance and spacing except Mk 1 eyeball!
Brian
8227
  8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Kari on 28 October, 2018, 11:27:41 AM
Notek black-out light? Not only on Aprilia's but also on this Augusta. Picture taken 1942, my parents standing by the car.

The fifth hole on the Aprilia wing would have been for the electrical wire.

Cheers  Karl


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 October, 2018, 02:12:19 PM
That's a great photo. Which country was it taken in? I always thought the lights were military only. Didn't realise they could be used on civilian vehicles but I suppose it makes sense. All vehicles had black out covers in the UK for instance.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Kari on 28 October, 2018, 03:27:05 PM
This picture was taken in Switzerland. Switzerland had black out's during war time. The petrol was rationed. Therefore a limited number of people were driving cars, like doctors etc.
The car on the picture probably belonged to a customer of the Grand Garage Capitol associated to Baumberger & Forster, Lancia representative in Zurich. My father was head of the repair shop. The number plate ZH 315 was the dealer plate of the garage. I assume my father did a "test drive"

Regards  Karl


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 28 October, 2018, 07:01:26 PM
That's a very good point Karl. A Notek blackout light gets to sound ever more probable.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 December, 2018, 01:41:56 PM
Quick update

Body nearly ready for final prep and paint. All welding completed, including the removal of old repairs to make them more acceptable ! More aesthetic than anything else

Door hinges replaced and doors refitted. The new, unworn hinges changed the door fit - I presume previous repairs had been done to rectify door drop with bent/worn pins in place. One hinge was broken as well. But all fits beautifully again

Still undecided on colour, but going away from 2-tone red/black .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 December, 2018, 06:41:35 PM
Dark blue like your wine label? I can't think of any car or type of car it doesn't suit.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 10 December, 2018, 10:24:00 AM
Lancia Blue even?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 March, 2019, 06:40:26 AM
Going into primer today ..... hopefully topcoat later in the week

"Wannabe" in the background is a 2CV Burton. Dog and his colleague, Jason, are making these


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 18 March, 2019, 08:52:58 AM
Interesting hotrod look!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 18 March, 2019, 10:09:13 AM
Interesting hotrod look!!

Tell me more ;D


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 March, 2019, 08:17:41 PM
Sorry to spoil the fun, but it is a low-rider because it doesn't have any suspension !

I removed all the suspension/back axle and fitted a pair of spare training arms with a curtain rail where the torsion bars should be - not sure whether the toe-in is correct though ....

Front suspension has springs but no damper units , so lots of negative camber

Maybe I should keep the "look" ?



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 May, 2019, 04:11:34 PM
Getting exciting .... top photo is the 2nd 2-pack primer, different colour to the first so once it has been flatted again it will show up any imperfections (apparently !) and then the second is the repainted dash. I found this colour on the dash frame and have kept it for the dash because it looks great with the leather interior

The main frame has been painted today, first the black and then once I have finally decided on the "insert" colour we can finish it off. Hopefully photos next week once it has been unmasked



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 May, 2019, 05:21:57 PM
So finally - body painted

I have used the colour we found behind the dash for the dash and the lower body. Final decision is whether to paint the wings black or "red" ??

Dog and Jason after a 3 am finish ! Dog (on the left) said that he didn't like this photo because he hadn't had time to do his hair


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 20 May, 2019, 05:37:48 PM
That's a lovely colour Simon. And black wings would go quite well I would have thought.
Chris


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 20 May, 2019, 06:26:20 PM
wow  Dog done well!!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Parisien on 20 May, 2019, 07:24:47 PM
Magnificent once again, well done to you all!

P


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 20 May, 2019, 07:45:52 PM
Superb. Wine colour. Black wings.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Dikappa on 20 May, 2019, 07:51:30 PM
And the vote of the Belgian jury is 12 points for black wings!
(but off course the decision is yours and I'll love it either way!)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 May, 2019, 07:59:00 PM
Back home and a couple more photos


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: the.cern on 21 May, 2019, 09:07:26 PM
Simon, another triumph for you and Dog!!! I agree that black wings are the better option. I think that is unanimous isn't it?

                               Andy


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 May, 2019, 10:37:06 PM

I can't believe the shine straight from the gun...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 22 May, 2019, 12:24:48 PM
Looks fantastic in that colour combination.
Is Dog even aware of his online 'LEGEND' status ???  ;D
 
Well done, Simon !!
 
Tim


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 May, 2019, 08:22:52 AM
A couple of photos with the doors fitted and now flatted and polished - now it shines !

I asked Dog to spray some colour on one of the rear wings whilst he had paint in the gun - so not fully prepped etc - just to get an idea of the red against the body ..... we'll see !

The engine is ready to fit, but I want to do some part fitting before it goes in

Finally the new badge for the grill - I have been looking for a HiFi badge for a long time and think it will fit the Cabrio nicely


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: JohnMillham on 28 May, 2019, 09:31:46 AM
And who is (or was) AA?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 May, 2019, 09:53:26 AM
From the rear, without wings on, it looks ready for a run on the lake bed.

What do you think of the red rear wing having looked at it?  I think the problem is that red looks better for a rear wing but black for the front but not the same would look really odd.  Able to try a red one on the front?  Do one side red one black? 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: frankxhv773t on 28 May, 2019, 10:16:34 AM
My vote would be black wings all round. It would effectively be what the Riley RM community call a Mountbatten split.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 May, 2019, 06:02:06 PM
The red wing looks nice at the moment because you have the almost Bugattiesque black curve dividing it from the rest of the red. I think though that once you get to the front there will be too much red with the bonnet sides. But you must do what you prefer, don't be influenced by us lot, it's not our car. David's suggestion reminded me of a very smart 30's Alvis drophead I saw once. Because of the sweeping red along the side making the back mostly red and the front black, it had red wire wheels at the back and black at the front. It all worked so well one didn't realise at first. Of course, as soon as you stopped to change a puncture the whole thing was messed up for a while.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 May, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote
And who is (or was) AA?

John, Not sure who AA is/was . However, I'm not sure it's quite right for a "producer of alcohol", but I like the irony !

Stan, I appreciate all the comments and points of view (and love the Mountbatten split , even if it sounds like pudding) and will make a final decision just as Dog is masking up, probably ......

As a slight aside and staying with the difficulty of colour choices,  the HF will remain blue following a few days touring in the HF with Juliet who likes the blue - and who am I to argue ?





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 29 May, 2019, 02:55:38 PM

Delighted to hear the Fulvia is staying blue, it really suits it.  An excuse now to track down as many photos as possible of its "blue history".

Having painted some areas (under the bonnet?) the original red do they get put back?   I love the idea of doing the door shuts original red to give the "blow over respray" look ;)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 30 May, 2019, 08:31:04 AM
Rear wings black please, red ones look odd.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 01 June, 2019, 10:21:26 AM
I think different colour wings front and back would look great! Here are three combinations on the 4.3 Alvis, two with different but matching wheelcolours, one with contrasting silver wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjp1PV76/02-alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2yxMjqp9/03-Alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sX7b86Tr/01-alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Decisions, decisions!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 01 June, 2019, 02:55:58 PM
That's the one I was thinking of but got the colours the wrong way round.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 01 June, 2019, 06:23:10 PM
Oh - just realised the second photo IS the one I was thinking of.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 June, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
Thanks for the photos, it is great to see other ideas. I find the Alvis red too bright on a car of that age - but like all things it is personal taste. In French we say that you can discuss everything except "tastes and colours" because they are so individual

I have spent most of the afternoon fitting a door lock, not because it was difficult , but because it needed stripping and painting before greasing and re-assembly.

A couple of photos showing how simple it is

Whilst waiting for paints to dry in the sun I have started putting things back in the right place under the bonnet and re-painting the underbody black because there was some overspray and dust following the body paint


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: fay66 on 01 June, 2019, 09:58:37 PM
I think different colour wings front and back would look great! Here are three combinations on the 4.3 Alvis, two with different but matching wheelcolours, one with contrasting silver wheels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/gjp1PV76/02-alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2yxMjqp9/03-Alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sX7b86Tr/01-alvis.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Decisions, decisions!
I like the 3rd design but would like to see the black on the bonnet carried over to the boot, and down to the rear wings.
however I'd prefer  burgundy to the red.
Each to his own"
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 June, 2019, 09:14:28 PM
Next stage is to fit out the under-bonnet and start the wiring

First up were the brake pipes. Most were OK , just needed a good check and clean. I made a new pipe for the reservoir because I have changed the set up. Detail showing the "through-wing" connector which is so typically OTT Lancia. All loosely fitted without joints etc

The wiring - it is going to be fun because:

1/ it was a rotten, mess
2/ was a Citroen/Lancia mix
3/ is a 12V system on a 6V car
4/ I am keeping the 12V system and adding side lights and indicators
5/ it was largely dismantled and hasn't been used for many years
6/ etc etc !

Started with, literally, the key element - the ignition switch. This also controls the lights .... 

I have a spare unit so have taken this to bits to see how it works, so a couple of photos

Finally, she has her identity back. The chassis plate has been cleaned up and replaced. I don't have any of the correct domed screws yet so I will replace them as and when I find them


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 June, 2019, 10:51:17 AM
Front end wiring loom finished. Plus I have pulled through the wires for the rear loom. Not sure if the photos show it clearly, but the wires are modern copper, in various sizes and then covered with a "fabric" finish and so look very much like the original.

In Italy last year I also picked up some nice aluminium cable ties and the coiled conduit

I have corrected some errors on the old wiring and added extra indicator circuits , plus an extra wire to the rear loom - just in case I need to add an iPod charger for Mathilda !

Need to connect up the fuse boxes and then attack the dashboard loom. Still quite a lot of detail to finish, but the backbone is in

Engine in next ??


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 05 June, 2019, 10:58:22 AM
Impressive work in 2 days....Looks like the HF is spewing cable looms out of it!!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 05 June, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
Simon, is it, more or less, the same loom as the sedan? It looks similar in several places.
Wonderful work as always.....keep the photos coming!!!
 
Regards,
Tim  :)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 05 June, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
I use the same coiled flexible  conduit where appropriate but only when I have the correct OE fittings for either end which sadly are often missing.
Nice job Simon - I love rewiring - probably because its so logical and either right or wrong with no middle ground.
Chris


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 June, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Yes Chris, a number were missing. I have soldered the ones I have however, I have also used loom tape to cover the exposed ends to stop dust, crud etc getting into the conduits

Tim, the loom is very similar to a saloon, the rear section is slightly different because the wires to the trafficators don't go to the back and the internal light runs inside on the floor. The second series is quite different because there is an extra fuse box

Tim, the HF was used to attach the wire-puller so I could slide on the conduit, I suppose any 1970's Lancia would do the job

A couple of other steps forward, I have trial fitted the seats and they look great with the black/old-vine-carignan-red combination, although under artificial light the photos don't really catch the colour properly

Plus, I fitted the engine and 'box this morning. I have always found that getting an Aprilia unit fitted is very tight. Others may do it differently, but I fit the engine and box together (like an Appia), with the chrome gear lever support as well. This removes the risk of moving the selectors if you are trying to fit it later, then it can be a real pain to line them up again

The unit goes in at an angle and then as the rocker cover touches the baulkhead then you jack up the back of the box as you slide the sump over the front axle - there is probably only 5mm clearance. You can get a bit more with the rocker cover removed, but I don't like doing that because the valve gear is exposed

I think it is easier on an S1 car than S2 because you can move the engine mounts out of the way by removing 1 bolt and rotating them

Overall, without rushing , it took me about 40 minutes to fit and loosely bolt in place



Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2019, 02:15:17 PM
Seats have wide flutes, gives them a comfortable look.

Impressed with engine on bits of rope not a modern tilter thingy.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: davidwheeler on 12 June, 2019, 07:41:11 AM
I was initially shocked, then I saw that the rocker cover had only minimal bolts in place so you will doubtless be removing it and painting it now the risk of scratching it is past!   I am going to have to re-do my car this summer when it is warm enough Oop North to spray paint but I shall never achieve your standard I fear.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 June, 2019, 07:00:36 AM
Seats are very comfortable, just need to be used and stretched a bit. New rocker cover has been loosely fitted as well until I have sorted out the upper seals and I have sourced a good set of plug extenders

A bit more around the engine bay. The first picture shows the elements of the throttle linkage. All cleaned and coated with acrylic - I decided against painting everything black, I'm not sure if they would have been painted originally.

The lever on the top is for the hand throttle which is still to be fitted (lever under the dash)

The loom covers are on so you can't see my new loom anymore !

A difficulty is how best to clean up the information plates to an acceptable standard. So far they have been scotch-brited and then cleaned/protected with Autoglym polish. I will see how they look when the rest is done - they may stand out like a sore thumb, or they might have a nice patina , we'll see !! (before and after photo)

Final picture shows the pedal block, all cleaned and painted, but I do need to buy Aprilia pedal rubbers instead of the Citroen covers


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 June, 2019, 09:36:58 AM

I forgot about those lovely roller throttle peddles.  Augusta is similar.

Pleased with the lacquered steel for the links?  When new would they be bare metal and a wipe (mist!!!) of oil?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: stanley sweet on 20 June, 2019, 07:00:46 PM
Top work as usual Simon. I've noticed that on the latest craze for restoration programmes that when something delicate needs to be cleaned and protected out comes the baby oil.  (Why do babies squeak so much?). But as you've used Autoglym I can't see that the oil would add anything. I can't see you can go any better than the one you've cleaned. The missing paint is never coming back. If they are extremely rare I can only think that artwork could be recreated for a specialist the remake. It depends if you are aiming for very good and usable or almost a concours finish?


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 27 June, 2019, 05:46:42 PM
Simon,
At this rate of progress, you'll have the car on the road before the summer is over!

Like most things Lancia, the throttle assembly is an impressive design, and over the top, of course!
 
Jai Sharma has pedal covers advertised on eBay - you probably know that already.
 
Regards,
Tim
 

 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 June, 2019, 03:34:52 PM
Thanks for your comments, think it will take a bit longer than that ! However, I have agreed with my "interior-man" to attack all the outstanding bits in early August. We will work together to dismantle, remake frames, resew and then fit

Plus, thanks for the tip about Jai, I have ordered from him instead of elsewhere - he's got some nice stuff !

Re plates, they look very acceptable now that they have been refitted. I have seen one of them re made, BUT they have corrected the errors !!

I have been pottering in the garage this week and spending a ridiculous amount of time on the dash. I will keep it brief but in order to fit the dash - a 2 minute job - I have had to re-make the wiring for the petrol gauge, strip and clean all the gauges and light holders , find solutions for missing or broken bits. There is little available for dashboards

For those not not au fait with Aprilia petrol gauges, they are a genuine work of art with an unfeasably large number of bits - both at the tank end and dash end. I could (and may yet ) write several pages on them. The ends are connected to each other via a 12 core cable (S2) or 11 core (S1)

I have used very fine computer style wire and low power LED bulbs - I had to change all the 6V bulbs anyway.

Each dial has been stripped and faces cleaned with an Autoglym glass cleaner. It is very mild and hasn't damaged the delicate black/white lettering

Everything has been bench-tested as I go along.

Next up was the speedo which was seized. This need to be dismantled so that I could get at the drive. The pin was removed and then the faces were gently cleaned up and oiled. The needle was repainted and then all re-assembled - This was quite a fiddly job !

Second photo of this shows the eccentric pivot that turns the counter wheels

The oil pressure gauge had a broken glass so the same procedures followed

Finally I fitted a nice Jaeger clock that I found in a vide-grenier. The original Metron clock is missing and very difficult to find, but this looks good and fits without any mods so if/when I find a clock I can replace it

The indicator updates mean that the dash lights need to be re-wired differently so I fitted a small green LED into the original indicator (damaged anyway) and then tried various circuit options. On small problem with LEDs is that they don't work with a classic 3 pin (+/L/P) style relay which is a shame because I have a lovely 1950's SEAM unit ....

Final mods were a couple of nice chromed blanking plugs for previous holes and a nice new push button for the horn because the period, after-market steering wheel doesn't have a horn push in the centre of the wheel

PS it is VERY warm here at the moment, they're not fibbing .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 June, 2019, 03:38:13 PM
more .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: peteracs on 28 June, 2019, 04:55:11 PM
Hi Simon

Wonderful as always, no idea how you find the time for starters....

As to the led with the relay, I am not familiar with the relay, but cannot understand why you cannot make the led work with it?

Also quite pleased not to be at our place in France, sounds as bad as last July which was not much fun.

Peter


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 July, 2019, 05:35:33 PM
Been quiet again - life gets in the way !

Re LED, interestingly with exactly the same set up, but with a standard bulb, it all works. It was a NOS 1950's mechanical relay.

I have been putting the driver's door back together. A lot of detail and time involved. It took a day to strip and clean everything before painting, or in the case of the winder mechanism and plate, varnishing. It was so nice that once cleaned up I couldn't bear to cover it up with paint !!

The glass frame had to be split as well because one of the sliders had become detached and needed welding. The little window rollers were freed off, the door lock and catch all stripped , painted , greased and re-assembled

The only "problem" is finding the correct rubber profile for the outer aluminium trim, where it scrapes the glass. I will have to come back to this, but it means stripping the door again. I have re-used the window channel guide rubbers because , again I can't find the very large (20 mm outside, 13 mm channel) so as and when I find them both I can do it later

I bought and fitted the sound/resonance damping, diamond pattern bitumen for the doors as well

With everything fitted the door now closes with a satisfying "clunk-click"

Before all the door-work, I spent a day fitting a door seal, not difficult per se, but it took a while to find a compatible rubber and finding a way to fit it because I can't get hold of the original profile. Another time consuming part was identifying all the correct bits of trim because they had all been removed before I got the car, so it was a case of offering up the bits and seeing if the screw holes lined up !

A lot of the trim panels are screwed onto wooden frames, themselves screwed onto the metalwork, some of these were missing and had to be remade

Slowly, slowly ....

Oh , a picture of Nick Mason's concert in the Nimes Roman amphitheatre just slipped in - amazing spectacle and only 2,000 people watching, surreal experience listening to tracks from "Obscured by Clouds" in a 2000 yr old venue .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 July, 2019, 12:20:17 PM

Is that a big clock spring in the window winder?

Knowing you I feel your pain having to modify something to fit a different seal.  Fingers crossed the window wiper will turn up and its not the same game again. 


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Jaydub on 28 July, 2019, 11:46:50 AM
Great work and attention to detail as ever!
Re LEDs and relay.
 LEDs do not have enough resistance to make the relay operate. For example: I fitted very small motorcycle flashers with 6 watt bulbs to a customer`s Jaguar XK120 and the flasher relay wouldn`t work?  Cause: 2 x 6 watts = 12 watts ( one side of car) 12w divided 12v = 1 amp of current.  Normal flasher bulbs are 21 watt, 2 x 21w == 42 watts divided by 12v = 3.5 amps. Relay required at least 2.5 amps to make it work.  Fix was to add another bulb holder with a 21w bulb under the dash. We now have 33 watts divided by 12v = 2.75 amps and relay now works!. I suppose I could have sourced a resistor but that was a quick fix.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: peteracs on 28 July, 2019, 09:36:11 PM
Hi

The actual problem is I think that LEDs have too much resistance and do not draw enough current. The old flasher units work based on heating a metal bar which requires a certain higher level of current which the old style bulbs draw, but LEDs do not hence the bar never heats up enough to make contact. There is an explanation here.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/turn-signal2.htm

The answer would be to use a modern electronic flasher or as per above add some sort of extra load to draw enough current.

Peter


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Jaydub on 30 July, 2019, 03:08:10 PM
Peter I am not an expert on these matters by any means, but my understanding is that LED`s need a resistor or a voltage limiter or else they will burn out with too much voltage, because they are a diode not a bulb as we know it.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Jaydub on 30 July, 2019, 03:16:07 PM


Re LED, interestingly with exactly the same set up, but with a standard bulb, it all works. It was a NOS 1950's mechanical relay.


Simon, on your test rig you appeared to have only one flasher illuminated and the relay didn`t function. I wondered if you had 2 lamps in the circuit thereby adding more load c/w LED, the relay might have worked as per my reference on the XK120?
Just curious.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 30 July, 2019, 08:29:00 PM
I fitted LED flashers to a 20hp RR, or rather, tried to. Normal flasher units do not work with LEDs alone, but can if you are content to have for example the rear indicators using incandescent bulbs with LEDs at the front. Specific LED flashers work with LEDs as long as there is no ignition derived interference which on the RR would make the LEDs flash in synch with the contact breaker when the engine was running, although OK with the engine stopped. Using suppressors in the plug leads more or less worked but the engine did not like them so in the end I abandoned the idea, which in fact makes sense as the purpose of using LEDs is to use less power, which bearing in mind the minimal time that the indicators are working is insignificant. As mentioned in an earlier post, the old fashioned clockwork type flashers should work perfectly, although I gave up before proving that. Such clockwork flashers were used on the Citroen 2cv and are still available although they are incorporated within the dash mounted switch which you may or may not wish to use.
The above was my experience from 3-4 years ago so may be not so relevant with more recent LED compatible flasher units.

Mike


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: peteracs on 31 July, 2019, 07:45:45 AM
Peter I am not an expert on these matters by any means, but my understanding is that LED`s need a resistor or a voltage limiter or else they will burn out with too much voltage, because they are a diode not a bulb as we know it.

Hi

You are correct that a simple LED is a diode and hence would normally want around 1.5V across it. The packaged LED lights you see are not just LEDs, but will have some extra circuitry, maybe simple resistor to limit the current/voltage drop,  they may also have multiple leds, guess it all depends on the design. Either way the packaged ones should have a voltage rating and also a wattage spec.

Peter


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 August, 2019, 10:49:05 AM
I've learnt a lot about LED's - thanks. The only other thing to note is that they are +/- sensitive so you have to take care which way they are fitted

I have put some time aside this week to work with my upholsterer with a view to finishing the interior so I will try and do updates as we go along

Today was marking out the carpets and planning the rest of the week. He also showed me the steering wheel grip to see if I was happy - I am !

The photo of the boot was to see if I wanted dark beige or black in the boot, so I am going with the dark beige, trimmed with the same colour red as the seats, everywhere

My job now is to fit the underlay and make new door panels .....


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 05 August, 2019, 01:37:17 PM

Exciting !!!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 05 August, 2019, 09:20:12 PM
One more observation on LEDs - they pass so little current that the earth connection can be the point of greatest resistance in the circuit and will stop the LED from working. Do make sure there is a really good earth return.

Mike


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 August, 2019, 05:06:39 PM
Thanks for that

Today's exciting installment ......

I fitted the underlay in the car and boot area last night and then after a vine treatment (criminally early this morning !) I started on the new panels.

I set up a table under the Appia, but it is still very warm in the garage. The headline temp has dropped but it is still 34°C with 95% humidity

Clément showed me a neat way of tracing the shape of the frame. You put double sided sticky tape around the frame , stick some thick polythene onto it and then trace it out with a felt pen. Then you peel it off, cut it out and transfer it to the new plywood. I taped it loosely to the board and then sprayed the edges with black paint (my adaptation to the process) - ready to cut out. The edges were nicely chamfered and ready for recovering

While I was doing this, Clément was doing a check fit of the carpets before finishing the edging. The boot carpet has been finished and fitted and he has also made the patterns for the inner wheelarch trims, so that there will be no metal showing

So advancing slowly - tomorrow we will be making the RHS door panel and trimming the footwell panels along with other bits and bobs. Unfortunately I haven't got enough leather so a a quick call to Connolly and another skin is on its way

Other panels were either repaired or remade as well, they have now all gone off for re-trimming

The rear quarter panels and arm rests are back and after a trial fit will be properly fitted tomorrow







Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 August, 2019, 05:08:32 PM
Couple more pics


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: chriswgawne on 06 August, 2019, 06:15:40 PM
Fascinating, particularly for me knowing what is on the horizon.
My quest for the correct colour nocciola wool cloth is nearing fruition I believe….but its not helped by the huge variation in colour in potential supplier's photos....even from photo to photo of the same material in the same car!
When I am sorted I will find a way of illustrating this.
Well done Simon, the Aprilia Cabriolet is turning out to be a real eye catcher.
Chris


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: mikeC on 06 August, 2019, 07:25:13 PM
Chris, my Appia is trimmed in Nocciola. If you are attending the AGM we can see if we can find a small area to cut off that you can use as a sample.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bYHvz3wj/P1020463-800.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 August, 2019, 10:31:58 PM

I like that pattern making trick.


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 August, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
Quieter day here today, most of the trimming being done at Clément's workshop

In the meantime I have tidied up a couple of bits on the underlay so that the carpets will lie flat and finished the rest of the underlay

Rear quarter panel fitted to RHS, need to go into Narbonne for more door seal tomorrow when I collect my bike wheels (conversion to tubeless)

Other jobs were cleaning and protecting the firewall rubber which is complete but the rubber has gone soft and it is quite delicate. The tunnel rubber is a NOS piece that I found at Padova a couple of years ago. Finally sound deadening bitumen panels have been fitted to the other door, inner wings etc


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 August, 2019, 08:57:12 AM
Still waiting on the extra "skin" so unfortunately we couldn't finish it all this week before he goes on holiday (sad face !) but very happy with what we did get done. The footwell panels , for example, can't be finished until the door panels are done because we need to follow the line of the carpet forward - the bottom of the doors will be carpeted

I still need to screw in the studs for the boot carpet but the inner wheelarches look great , lined in the faux-leather. There will be a board at the back of the boot , originally painted, but I've decided to cover that as well

Now that most of the interior is back in place I can see a couple of bits of bodywork that will need to be covered in the faux-leather (or leathercloth) to hide the black paint, mainly in the corner around the rear seat

However, a major step forward this week


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 August, 2019, 06:22:10 PM
The extra "skin" arrived today so hopefully crack on with the door panels again this week

I had some time today to finish the wiring on the dash. The indicators were a bit of a faff, I could not get a single LED dash warning lamp to flash for both sides however I wired it (even with a resistor added), so after some time I fitted a second lamp - one lamp for left , one for right. There was an extra hole already drilled in the dash and I had fitted a chrome blank to fill it in neatly, so I found another dash lamp and fitted a second LED into this.

I used a 2 terminal flasher unit tucked high up, slotted onto a bespoke bracket. I then added a nice circular junction box to connect the front/rear indicators and dash repeaters to the switch wires.

The only other non-standard mod to the dash is a series of earths to ensure everything has a good grounding, it has added a couple of extra wires but it looks OK

All the switches have been stripped and cleaned, the most complex is the interior light switch that uses a rotating square to alternatively create/break the circuit. The angled contact on one side turns the block as the button is pushed

The indicator switch is very straight-forward, a pair of sprung boards that have a left-neutral-right position and the lever connects the boards as required.  Refreshingly simple after the Appia/Aurelia units ....

All the switches are mounted , and pre-wired,  to the triangular plate. This in turn is held onto the dash with the ignition/light unit (round thing with lots of terminals) and chrome indicator mounting nut.

The ignition/light unit is also pre-wired before fitting. The clip-in dial unit is also pre-wired before it goes in. All well thought out, just leaving the oil pressure gauge and speedo cable to finish it all off

In theory, I can now connect a battery and start the car !


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: lancialulu on 20 August, 2019, 07:03:50 PM
Its like magic. Can't wait to see it!


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 August, 2019, 04:30:26 PM
Why not come over for breakfast Tim !

A couple of hours playing this morning so the dash is finished. I stripped cleaned and painted the wiper motor and mechanism before refitting, plus the glovebox was lined with fabric and the glovebox door refitted. All looks a lot smarter

There is a photo of one of the spindles. At the bottom end is a "bearing" which I packed with grease and also fitted new round washers in the top cup to help seal the shafts

I don't think that the wiper motor mounting is original, the bracket looks home-made, albeit well done. Indeed the whole setup is a bit crude making you wonder if the were originally fitted, however a photo at the PininFarina factory pre-war does show the cars with them already there

Next is to to put her back on the ramp and start re-assembling the axles and suspension





Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 August, 2019, 07:54:30 AM

That interior light switch is an intriguing wee thing.

In what way do you consider the wiper system crude?   

Lovely to see all the details as ever...


Title: Re: Aprilia Cabrio - here we go again
Post by: tzf60 on 22 August, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
Lovely work, as always, Simon !!
The glovebox is quite a size, compared to the sedan. I think the wiper mechanism looks pretty smart.
 
Tim