Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: RobD on 22 November, 2015, 09:19:23 PM



Title: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: RobD on 22 November, 2015, 09:19:23 PM
Is anybody aware of any Series 2 1.3HFs being built by the factory ? I can't find any official reference to such a model but I've seen one or two series 2 cars on You Tube where the owners state they are 1.3 HFs . I assume these are simply lookalikes .


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: Neil on 22 November, 2015, 10:05:16 PM
Second series coupes (including Fulvia 3, Montecarlo and Safari models) only came as 1.3S & 1600 HF/Lusso, no 1.3HFs just series 1 1.3 HF (818.340/341), possibly 1.3s with HF parts fitted such as front suspension.


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 November, 2015, 10:25:08 AM
Yes, 1st series only. My S2 is 'in the spirit of'.


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: RobD on 23 November, 2015, 01:51:26 PM
This Ser 2 "HF" 1.3 has been the inspiration for what I'm trying to create with my car.
Hopefully by the spring my car will be sounding and going as well as this one ...well that's the plan anyway...

https://youtu.be/cGiZR23VyhQ


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: lancialulu on 23 November, 2015, 02:01:08 PM
Nice. Are you going to modify the front wishbones??

Or are you going for the Rosso Corsa "fully" adjustables setup?


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: RobD on 23 November, 2015, 02:26:42 PM
Modifying the wishbones is a definte possibility Tim but I don't like doing stuff until I've got a benchmark. I'd like to do a few hillclimbs with the standard set up to see how it feels. I like the feel and predictability of the standard car and I'd need to be sure that a bit of negative camber on the front would bring some meaningful benefits. The experience gained bike racing taught me not to modify things just because everybody else seems to be doing it.

The first priority is to
 1] build an engine with decent bore and valve seals.
2] make sure a sufficient quantity of mixture can be introduced into the engine and compressed accordingly and
3] ensure the spark plug sets fire to it at the correct time.

Getting those three basics right is currently occupying a great deal of my free time ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 November, 2015, 05:22:04 PM
Am I right in thinking that the 1.3HF's have positive camber and negative was introduced with the 1.6?


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: RobD on 23 November, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
The pictures I've seen would certainly seem to suggest that Stanley. It could be that because the 1.3 HFs were mainly destined to be loose surface rally cars rather than tarmac racers it was preferable to stick with neutral camber. Negative camber, whilst potentially desirable for high speed cornering on tarmac can reduce the available grip under braking and acceleration. 


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: lancialulu on 23 November, 2015, 10:03:17 PM
I thought the replica HF had negative camber..... Seemed quite at home on hill climby roads!


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: RobD on 24 November, 2015, 10:08:52 AM
From the look of it I'd say the replica definitely had negative camber! Not to mention some closer ratio cogs. It's also being driven by someone who clearly knows his stuff...


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: stanley sweet on 24 November, 2015, 10:13:54 AM
Yes - the way it was going around those corners would suggest that - at that speed mine would probably plough on off the road. The Zagato I had from Richard Fridd had negative camber - it certainly felt sharper when I used it on track days - you could really chuck it into a corner. I've read that neg camber results in heavier steering at road speeds but I don't have any great memory of that. Be interesting to drive a Fulvia with neg camber again on the road to see how different it is.


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 24 November, 2015, 11:35:52 AM
The modified wishbones were the best single improvement to the car. Altering the ride height also affected the camber. Lower=increase to positive


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: lancialulu on 24 November, 2015, 02:22:34 PM
Needs 6j offset to work as intended.


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: stanley sweet on 24 November, 2015, 02:34:15 PM
What did you do to the wishbones, Richard. Shorten the top one, lengthen the bottom one, or a bit of both?


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 24 November, 2015, 03:57:45 PM
Top pressed wishbone shortened by welding two washers close to the existing holes and drilling two new holes in the washer centres. Bottom tubular wishbones lengthened, by cutting and internally sleeving, then rewelding the 'gap'. Small chages in length have quite an effect regarding camber. One thing to consider, is maintaining the original position of the outer CV joint. 6JX14 Campagnolos were fitted.


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: stanley sweet on 24 November, 2015, 04:45:51 PM
That takes me back. Would love to have kept JLG if I'd had the space here. Was the other one yours too?


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 24 November, 2015, 05:02:07 PM
Both mine, but now both gone to make room for the Flaminia. Not sure who this in the attached photo


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: ColinMarr on 24 November, 2015, 08:13:52 PM
My car had S2 pressed steel upper wishbones and 1600HF lowers. It was horrible on 6J Cromodoras, but a delight on 5.5Js.

That film was lovely Ė it reminded me of how I felt my car performed when I let my imagination stretch just a bit beyond reality. But it didnít need to stretch that far, because in truth it was very sharp, very rewarding and sounded very crisp when working hard in middle gears. Happy days,

Colin


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: lancialulu on 24 November, 2015, 10:30:13 PM
My car had S2 pressed steel upper wishbones and 1600HF lowers. It was horrible on 6J Cromodoras, but a delight on 5.5Js.

That film was lovely Ė it reminded me of how I felt my car performed when I let my imagination stretch just a bit beyond reality. But it didnít need to stretch that far, because in truth it was very sharp, very rewarding and sounded very crisp when working hard in middle gears. Happy days,

Colin

Colin I think you may have achieved zero camber..... My comment was passed to me by an eminent Italian Fulvisti who observed I was running 5.5 J on HF suspension on my Sport. I had fitted both these choices..... I was at the time quite unhappy with the handling which should have been preety much like my 1600HF - but was not. After he gave me this insight I swapped the HF 6J wheels onto the Sport and found the handling transformed, so now both cars carry this wheel.

Tim


Title: Re: HF 1.3 series 2?
Post by: ColinMarr on 25 November, 2015, 08:59:46 AM
I didnít measure it but there was definitely some negative camber on my car Ė it was clearly evident just from looking at it, but unfortunately difficult to show in photographs. The better handling that Tim observed with 6Js, which was not my experience, may be because my all-aluminium car was significantly lighter in weight. With my car, I think it was the wider off-set of 6Js that made the ride harsh and the steering less precise. The lesser off-set of the 5.5s made it much sharper and more agreeable.

Colin