Lancia Motor Club

Buy, Sell and Search => Lancia vehicles for sale => Topic started by: Harvey on 25 September, 2007, 01:16:54 PM



Title: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 25 September, 2007, 01:16:54 PM
I'm on a quest to broaden my Lancia ownership and the only way I can afford it is to sell my beloved Dedra. So, here goes:

1993 L-reg Dedra Turbo (non-cat) in metallic burgundy. Grey alcantara interior with light green carpets and carpeted mats. FSH - at least three trees have sacrificed themselves to produce the sheaf of receipts I have!

71,000 miles on the odo - 14,000 in my ownership in 3 years, and 2,000 of which were to Turin and back!

> Central locking
> Electric windows all round
> Electric sunroof
> Heated electric mirrors
> Heated front seats
> Digital temperature controls
> Electric fuel-flap and boot release
> Rear window blinds
> Split-folding 60:40 rear seats

All belts changed at 57,000 by Evolution Engineering in November 2004
New clutch in summer 2005 at Auto Integrale with new stainless steel exhaust.
New wishbone bushes at the front in spring 2007, and new front brakes after Goodwood (oops!) Ė also at Auto Integrale.
New battery this month.
Serviced every year.

Whole host of new goodies for the trip to Turin:
> New radio/CD player with USB port for playing MP3 from memory stick
> New alloy wheels
> New tyres at the front

The rear seats are immaculate, the front passenger is in excellent condition, and the driverís seat is very good, with some bobbling at the front.

The bodywork is in excellent condition apart from a bubble of rust forming over the nearside rear wheel arch. There are a number of small dinks and scratches commensurate with her age, mostly from the fact that no matter how far you park from other cars, someone always feels the need to park next to you  :(. Also, the top paint layer has debonded from the spoiler in a couple of places. The wheel arch and spoiler would be next on my list of things to do, but both are gilding the lily, really.

Sheís running reeeeally well, so will bring a lot of motoring pleasure to a new owner.  :)

A snip at £1,200 to LMC members. Taxed to the end of Feb, and Iíll get a new MOT.

Iím in no rush to sell, so youíre welcome to come and kick the tyres and admire her.  ;D

(I've still not sifted through all my receipts.)


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 08 October, 2007, 10:32:16 AM
Hup!

Is there no-one itching to own a great example of this model?

E-mail me: harvey (at) lancia.me.uk


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 October, 2007, 12:52:22 PM
Brilliant cars - can hustle one down a B-road with the passengers reading the Sunday papers.   Really decent sized boot.  A proper mile eater in the sense that a passenger will look up and be dissorientated as to how far up the country you are since they last looked out the window.   

Nice and narrow round town, bit tricky parking given the lack of rear visibility with the high tail.  Very quiet on the motorway and will track arrow straight even in really nasty winds, have never had or been in a car that tracks as well.  Strange sort of feature to comment on but most Lancias are excellent at going in a straight line whatever the road surface or weather conditions. 

Gorgeous dashboard and perfect ergonomics, a pet hate of mine are cars that offset the peddles or where you can't see the instruments.  Perfect view out the front. 

Steering has loads of feel but not at all heavy, a friend commented that it was "powerful steering" after having a go up a mountain somewhere, quick steering but not over senstive either.   

Its just a really nicely ballanced package of refinement and performance...  I have an itch for another one - seeing the Dedras was an unexpected treat at Covent Garden - but am resisting scratching it. 

Good luck selling it - and whoever gets it well done!!

David


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 October, 2007, 05:27:54 PM
...and don't think they're slow with "only" 165bhp.  Alas don't have the figures to hand but the one to look up is maximum torque in over-boost mode.  It has a function to permit more boost for something like thirty seconds as you might need to overtake a truck.  Being so clean aerodynamically it doesn't need the "extra" power at speed - foot down at 100 and it just pulls and pulls and pulls (where regulations permit!!). 

Lighter than an Integrale as well as more aerodynamic. 

While it has the power to break traction in first and on a wet road in second I never found myself saying "if only I had four wheel drive" - it really is only at low speeds it would make a differance, such as out of a hairpin uphill in the snow which is not the sort of driving I did a lot of and even when I did it wasn't that I was thinking "if only I had 4wd".   Traction was excellent with some clever viscous diff.

Replaced it with an Audi A4 which I hated - the Lancia left it completely in the shade in every regard.

If you love the Integrale sound track leave an exhaust box out the next time it needs doing.  If you want more power get it chipped.  If you love an engine to really rev fit normally aspirated cams and get it remapped.

Something else to note is unlike the "super saloon" version in most ranges Lancia had bits in the parts bin up to the power - great brakes, suspension parts up to the task - a car properly engineered to take that power and torque.  Lovely fast gear change as well.  The only things to fault were that rear three quarter vision and a bit underdamped at the back with a full load.  I think there was an electronic damper option which would have cured that as a new car and now could fit uprated or adjustable dampers.  I wouldn't bother stiffening or lowering even as a track day car.

A fabulous machine.  Mine is much missed but life moves on...

David


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Scarpia on 08 October, 2007, 05:39:24 PM
If you carry on like this, I'll start wanting one soon.....your description brings back memories of our old 8v thema turbo which provided similar satisfaction. We really enjoyed owning that car.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 08 October, 2007, 06:20:38 PM
Keep it up, David.  :)


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Mark Webb on 08 October, 2007, 06:49:10 PM
If only you had advertised it earlier I may not have been so inclined to repair my Alfa 75 T/spark. Having done the work (which took a month and seemed to increase everytime I looked at it and they found more on the mot retest!) maybe not this time.
Sure that it is money well spent and someone will be pleased with it, tempted but have spent too much time and money to recover on the 75.

Mark


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 October, 2007, 11:02:31 AM

While a Thema does have the "shrink round you" attribute so does the Dedra so it shrinks all the smaller on a narrow road, its something you can chase the motorbikes with.  The Audi A4 seemed to grow, and an A6 felt like a bus.  Suspension is supple so doesn't get thrown off line or tramline or anything nasty like a messed about with Evo might.

A Dedra Turbo also makes a fantastic tow car, you'll still be able to outdrag others off the rounderbouts.

Can't think it would give much away to any modern car.

David


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 15 October, 2007, 01:32:54 PM
The car is having her MOT today. There were some minor repairs / adjustments needed (looks like new rear brake caliper, handbrake adjustment, headlight adjustment). She's as good as she gets...


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: frankxhv773t on 19 October, 2007, 08:20:13 PM
Oh dear! you've got me missing my old Dedra too. The dash display at night with all the dash lights working , including the little green ones in the air vent controlls, was quite superb.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 19 October, 2007, 08:39:31 PM
My first Lancia was a Delta HF Turbo which was a real hoot. The dashboard display was almost completely obscured by the steering wheel so you had to drive mostly by feel. The only gauge that was clearly visible whatever angle you were steering at was the boost gauge ("the happy meter") which is surely the most important one...? Anyway, I loved the 1.6 turbo and knew I wanted to try the 2 litre turbo engine. I've not been disappointed, and the Dedra is a more civilised Q car - civilised in handling, and also in the fact the designers didn't put a boost gauge on the dash... Obviously targeted at a more "mature" owner. (The HF also had a stopwatch on the digital clock by the rear view mirror. Great for getting your friend to time your favourite road trips...)

As is a common tale, I decided I was going to return to Lancia ownership when I got divorced and decided to look for a Dedra Turbo. About a week later I was off on a stag do. Trundling along the Somerset back roads in a mini-bus, the first guy we picked up had a Dedra Turbo for sale... How could I resist? He parted company with it quite reluctantly, mostly because his wife wanted a new kitchen.

I'm happy to say that my kitchen remains old and tired and I'm selling only to fund a wider Lancia ownership. I'll consider swaps, too.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 October, 2007, 10:16:32 PM
What "wider Lancia" are you after?   Can't you just get the passengers to squeeze up a bit?


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 23 October, 2007, 11:00:31 AM
 :)

More specifically, a Monte, or possibly a Gamma.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: sparehead3 on 23 October, 2007, 11:02:45 AM
Gammas are wide to accommodate large moustaches ....


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: inthedark on 23 October, 2007, 11:44:45 AM
Oi ! I heard that :-)

'the colonel'


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Scarpia on 23 October, 2007, 03:18:46 PM
large moustaches and zimmer frames;

you'll run down the battery if you leave the hearing aid on during the day Colonel!



Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: inthedark on 23 October, 2007, 06:04:52 PM
a ?, what was that ?, speak up a bit, you've no respect for your elders


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 23 October, 2007, 06:38:36 PM
So, does anyone want a car? I said "DOES ANYONE WANT A CAR?"  :)


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: inthedark on 23 October, 2007, 08:25:42 PM
The'res no need to shout
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Oh and
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NOthank you


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Scarpia on 23 October, 2007, 11:16:15 PM
I wouldn't shout if I were you Colonel, the new improved Harvey (as seen in his picture) looks like a cross between Dirty Harry and the Terminator. Is this what we may expect in the future? "Administrate and Terminate". Should sort out the hooligans anyway...


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Rodders on 24 October, 2007, 07:49:13 AM
Hooligans?  What hooligans?

Rodders


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: inthedark on 24 October, 2007, 04:14:34 PM
1) I really don't think that's a picture of Harvey and

2) there's ONE of him and Bl**din thousands of us (Hooligans)

'the colonel' , Hooligan, Rebel, Renegade, Annoyer of all, and Gamma driver.......


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 13 November, 2007, 12:12:30 PM
Thanks for the interest, folks. I have now agreed a price and the car is due to be delivered to the new owner on Sunday.

I expect to get sentimental on the day!  :'(


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Dilambdaman on 13 November, 2007, 12:32:07 PM
Well, Harvey, that solves my dilemma!

Next to the Dilambda on the LMC stand at the NEC was an immaculate Dedra Turbo and so impressed was I that I had it in mind to contact you with a view to purchasing yours as a replacement for our ageing Alfa 157. Hey ho!

Robin Lacey.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: m tulloch on 14 November, 2007, 08:24:07 PM
Sorry, I can't agree with this.
We've owned two Dedras, & they were both truly horrible cars. Built down to a price, thirsty, undergeared and talk about rust at the rear wheelarches/cills!
Perhaps the later ones with 16v engines that were available on the Continent were slightly better than the awful 8v but by then it was too late in the UK. Not too much of a surprise then that RHD production ceased shortly after.
Glad to get rid of them as Themas are far better cars.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: fay66 on 15 November, 2007, 12:32:02 AM
Did you have them from new? if not when.
I wrote a comprehensive reply to this but as I finished it my broadband connection crashed so I shall do it all again tomorrow :(

Brian Hilton
8227
Dedra Adviser


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 15 November, 2007, 10:00:38 AM
You must have had unlucky experiences. Mine has proved faultless over three years of ownership - always started first time (except when the battery was flat!)

I agree that the Turbo is under-geared overall, but since we're restricted to 70mph, the gearing is great for always being near the top of the power band at legal speeds. I loved getting to a stretch of dual-carriageway and watching all the Audis and BMWs behind me jump to the outside lane in the expectation of overtaking me, and then fade into the distance behind me. (Please note this says more about the typical Audi/BMW driver than it does about my driving style... ;))

Thirsty? Yes, if you hoof it everywhere. I'm sure I saw 5 mpg on track days, but I averaged 30mpg to Turin at high-end motorway speeds all the way, and have achieved c. 35mpg from sedate driving.

As for rust, yes the Dedra's weak spot is the trailing edge of the rear wheel arch, but every car has a weak spot after all. I've got a bubble on one wheel arch, which isn't bad for a car built fifteen years ago. It's not been garaged for much of its life, either.

Finally, "built down to a price"? There are a lot of touches on the Dedra that are still missing from modern cars - illuminated stalks on the steering column, and a light around the ignition keyhole which stays lit after you've got in, as examples. The only concession to cost that I can see is the pseudo-climate control - all the advantages of full climate control but without a compressor to cool the air! I cried "Cheapskates!" when nearing Turin and the climate got a bit sticky.

I've had a fab three years with mine, and I'm sure the next owner will have a similarly rewarding experience.  :)



Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: fay66 on 16 November, 2007, 01:39:24 AM
Sorry, I can't agree with this.
We've owned two Dedras, & they were both truly horrible cars. Built down to a price, thirsty, undergeared and talk about rust at the rear wheelarches/cills!
Perhaps the later ones with 16v engines that were available on the Continent were slightly better than the awful 8v but by then it was too late in the UK. Not too much of a surprise then that RHD production ceased shortly after.
Glad to get rid of them as Themas are far better cars.

Sorry but as Dedra Adviser I can't let such scurrilous comments pass unaswered.

I've owned 5 x 2.oie's over the past 15 years & I certainly don't recognise your disparaging comments as being typical to the Dedra's I've owned, & known over that period of time.
2 of them were Auto's which as far as fuel consumption is concerned,was pretty dire, due mainly to the poor choice of ratios in the Volkswagen electronically controlled gearbox.
All my Dedras were purchased used, usually with 50,000+ miles on the clock, and in my hands covered on average an additional 60-70,000 miles each before being sold on, which then covered even more miles, mainly with very little problems.
The rust you write about on the cills is usually where the lip meets the underbody, (I've never seen a Dedra that has had to have new cills) this is caused by the gravel blasting back from the front wheels & literally blasting the protection away, this is easily cured with a once a year re-treatment using Waxoyl underseal, end of problem, however like all cars if you neglect them they rust, irrespective if they have Galvanised  body panels or otherwise; you could have course fitted the front mudflaps which would have stopped the gravel rash but as the mudflaps were a pain, & always catching on the road when cornering, I preferred the waxoyl treatment route.

Certainly the 2.0 non turbo cars were never undergeared, with nearly 90 being available in 3rd gear with the engine happy to rev to the red line at 6250 rpm.

Built "Down to a price"? Dedra's weren't exactly cheap and were classed as a middle executive car, which is where a lot of the UK cars went, in fact all my 5 were ex company/lease cars with excellent service records & were never a money pit.
The ones that I've come across with problems have invariably not been serviced or maintained correctly; one thing you certainly can't do with a Dedra is skimp on servicing, it will just come back and bite you.
Equipment & trim levels on Dedra are excellent & the Alcantara trim is exceedingly hard wearing if looked after.
I don't understand your comments about the "awful 8v Engine" the Lampridi designed 8v twin OHC Counter balancer shaft engine is an exceptional engine with great performance & a wonderful engine note when extended. However, once again servicing is all, the Lancia Recommended cambelt change interval of 60,000 miles is too high & I always recommend no more than 36,000 miles before changing, I've never broken a cambelt on a Dedra;  quite often when a cambelt has broken & wrecked the head & valves it's because the tensioner bearings haven't been changed, which have then collapsed leading to the counterbalancer belt coming off & taking the cambelt with it.

Having had 2 x3 series 3 Themas I would say that the 16v engine is more fragile than the Dedra 8v.
I loved my Thema's as well as the Dedra's, & have covered very many miles on the motorways of France Germany & Italy in the Themas at high average speeds & in great comfort, however, it the general cut & thrust of modern traffic & for cross country, I'll take the Dedra any day.

Rust has never been a great problem with Dedra, & the rust above the rear wheels is probably the weakest point, but even that didn't usually show in under the first ten years, & if the wheelarches were cleaned & the mud not allowed to collect there,it wasn't a problem.
Rust in the boot which is a killer is usually due to the drain hoses for the sunshine roof being displaced, & letting the water into the boot instead of draining out underneath. 
In fact to sum up, Dedra was probably the most reliable Lancia around
for many years with very few faults, & doesn't have the usual "Italian electrics".

Production of RHD ceased in the UK not because it was a bad car but because of poor support by Lancia & the Concessionaires & some Dealers, it was also marketed incorrectly being pitched at BMW 3 series, although the BMW was better built, it  wasn't as good as Dedra dynamically, the Dedra being a better drivers car than the BMW.
It was also a pity that we never got the 1994 facelift or the SW, if we had, things would have been different.
To sum up, it certainly wasn't as bad a car as you imply as it carried on until 1999 with 417,976 produced 1989- 1999, in comparison to a total Thema build of 357,276 1984- 1994. both ran for a ten year period. (Build figures with Thanks to "La Lancia")

Brian Hilton
8227 8)


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Scarpia on 16 November, 2007, 07:57:49 AM
We still see Dedras regularly on the roads here in Belgium although they are probably ex company cars on 3rd and 4th owners by now.Lets not forget my English friends that your living in a time warp and even the Dedra's successor, the Lybra that never warrants a mention on this forum has also come and gone in the meantime..

Basically Dedra's are now old cars and have mostly clocked up a fair mileage.Old cars go wrong and if you buy one at 3 years when the warranty had just run out (when most cars change owner) then there is always a chance you end up with some big bills during ownership.If you don't you have to consider yourself fortunate.

Incidentally,the Lybra was a reasonably popular model as lancias go, and was actually a common sight as company car here, although never in the big league such as Passats and the rest.A slightly different market means that just about everybody here drives a diesel and given the Lybra could be had with a 1.9 or even a 2.4 jtd it could be a respectable performer.Our kappa estate was a much bigger car with the same engine and went very well indeed. Are there many Lybra's made it over to the uk?






Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: fay66 on 16 November, 2007, 04:18:47 PM
Beam me up Scotty 8)


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: stuwilson128 on 16 November, 2007, 04:35:09 PM
Scarpia,

I am the proud owner of a Lybra SW 2.4JTd, based in Cumbria.  For me, it is the best car I have ever had!  I believe that there are only another two in the UK, one near Manchester and one around Bristol.  I would be interested to know if anyone else knows of any others in the UK.

Stuart.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 November, 2007, 05:27:32 PM

Pass on my congratualtions to the purchaser.  Is it staying in the LMC?

As for comments made above I was VERY happy with a Dedra Turbo next to the Audi A4 that replaced it and wouldn't have swapped it for any of the 3 series BMWs friends had.  Never had a Thema so can't compare directly.  A Thema was nice as a passenger, and as with a Dedra still nice as a passenger even over bad roads with an enthusiastic driver. The 8v ballancer shaft engine was as smooth - subjectively - as a six and sounded better.  I can't remember ever wanting for a taller 5th gear or feeling it was "busy" as speed.

That Audi was a real letdown - and test drove just about all the range in case I'd picked the wrong model or spec but nothing compared with a Dedra.  Gave up on the Dedra as I needed "main dealer" type service levels with a baby rather than it being "a day out" to get the car to a specialist.

David


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Mark Webb on 16 November, 2007, 07:33:25 PM
Having had an 8v Integrale and Delta Turbo I cannot really see how anyone could complain about the 8v engine, especially with the balancer shafts (which incidentally were mistimed by a specialist on my car!). Its almost as good as the Alfa twin cam, both engines have had a very long life, powered many different models, even the Alfa T.C. had an 1800 turbo before they switched to the dissapointingly fragile 16v twin sparks. Maybe they should have developed it further but probably emissions regs got it. Both classic designs not some old Cortina/Sierra block with a twin cam head grafted on (will remember not to drive through Essex for a while)!
On the rust issue, well to be fair everyone moans about Italian rust but look at the Fiesta of the same era if you can find one with any inner sills that is (another 2 weeks banishment from Essex). I wonder how the percentage survival rate compares with the Dedra?
I am tempted to try a Dedra Turbo myself and certainly would have been interested had I not done substantial work on my Alfa 75, again a vehicle that has been slated by some and has a relatively low value at present.
But then again if everyone wanted these cars then they would not be such a bargain!
I'm sure that the new owner will be very happy with his purchase and it certainly tempted me.


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Scarpia on 16 November, 2007, 11:34:49 PM
last few posts sum it up really.It is a case of the schoolboy physics equation where

     L+T=P(large)/M(small)/m1

where P is a constant.

 lancia+turbo=high pleasure/ for low money/ per metre travelled


Incidentally I just saw a Dedra turbo "integrale" for sale on the free adds here for 2200 euro=1500 quid.chipped with guarantee to 225hp.confirms the above equation Pleasure /pound =high     


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 November, 2007, 10:21:34 AM
The rust outrage to me is that Mercedes still hadn't cracked it in the 80s and if anything Mercedes rust "prevention" got worse into the 90s.

Back in the 1970s everything rotted...  I can remember my parents being very excited at the thought that a Volvo could last seven years, and that someone had heard of one more than ten years old.  The chip-as-chips 70s Alfas and Fiats I had late 80s were no worse than the one-foot-in-the-grave Triumphs and Jaguars that friends smoked about in.

How old is a Dedra now?  A bit of bubbling on the rear arch to tidy up is neither here nor there...


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: fay66 on 17 November, 2007, 11:47:07 AM
Not sure how many are still about in the UK, but the number of good ones are decreasing mainly due to maintenance costs which is something you can't skimp on.
However as Dedra Adviser I still get lots of Technical queries, the majority from Eastern Europe these days, but recent requests for assistance have come from Germany, Spain, Italy!, South Africa, & New Zealand, where one owner has 2 Dedra Autos; as well as the odd query these days from the UK (including Ireland).

Nice to know they are still going strong ;D

Brian Hilton
8227 8) 


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 20 November, 2007, 09:54:25 AM
The purchaser is not a member (yet....) but is a confirmed Italian car fan!

Bath to Salisbury in the Dedra = 55 minutes in comfort and a permanent grin on my face
Salisbury to Bath by train = 105 minutes, standing in an overcrowded carriage with a pained expression on my face

Public transport, eh?


Title: Re: Dedra Turbo
Post by: Harvey on 20 November, 2007, 12:42:10 PM
And I still never got round to adding up all the receipts... It's probably just as well - it was a labour of love, whatever my bank manager told me.  :)