Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: nthomas1 on 20 July, 2015, 08:25:19 PM



Title: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: nthomas1 on 20 July, 2015, 08:25:19 PM

I have a set of Cromodora wheels which I am considering having re-finished and then putting on my recently acquired Series 2 Fulvia Coupe.  The Cromodoras are 14" by 5.5". On my Fulvia I currently have the standard steel wheels with Michelin XAS tyres. The tyres are in excellent, almost as-new condition.  The sidewalls state 165 HR14 Radial.  My question is: can these Michelin XAS tyres be fitted to the Cromodoras?  I would appreciate any help and/or pointers from forum members.
Cheers, Norman Thomas


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: Parisien on 21 July, 2015, 07:33:17 AM
Maybe Longstone tyres might be able to answer your query?

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/lancia-fulvia

P


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: roddy on 21 July, 2015, 09:15:51 AM
Hello Norman.  These Flavia 2000 Cromodora wheels make an excellent fit on the Fulvia and accept the original 165/80x14 tyres.  The offset of the 5.5" wheel is very similar to that of the steel wheel, unlike the offset of the 6" HF Cromodora wheel, which widens the track considerably and spoils the steering geometry (unless used with the HF wishbones).  Remember, Series 1 cars were fitted with a 145 section tyre on the 4.5" steel wheel, whereas the Series 2 cars have a 165 tyre but still on the 4.5" wheel, so the sidewall can roll and flex a bit, and tyre pressures are quite critical.  Using the 5.5" Cromodora, reinstates the original concept of tyre size to rim width.  Sadly, tyre rubber can degrade and become hard with age, so the governing factor to using your existing tyres is, how old are they?   I happily use 165/80x14 H rating Vredestein Classic Sprint and am very pleased with them.

Regards - Roddy


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: Neil on 21 July, 2015, 10:56:35 AM
There are many tyre calculators on the internet, such as this one: http://www.alloywheels.com/tyre_calculator, you can check the size tyre is suitable for wider Cromadoras, this one states the 165/80x 14 tyre will fit up 6x14 wheel, 2000HF wheels are 5.5x 14, therefore they will fit without an issue, with inner tubes too.

I had fitted 185/70 Michelins on 5.5x14 Cromadoras and found then too wide and it ruined the handling of the S2 car, looked nice, this was the 1980s, 175/70 might be a compromise as the gearing is only slightly altered.  Roddy raises a good point regarding the age of tyres you might find some tyre fitter wont swap the tyres over if they are over 5 years old as the rubber does degrade and go hard which is not good for the handling.  I have fitted Falken Sinceras to my steel wheels at present which seem to give a good ride and good grip, they seem quieter than the old Michelin XZs of the past, (may be they had aged).


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: fay66 on 21 July, 2015, 11:43:21 PM
Hello Norman.  These Flavia 2000 Cromodora wheels make an excellent fit on the Fulvia and accept the original 165/80x14 tyres.  The offset of the 5.5" wheel is very similar to that of the steel wheel, unlike the offset of the 6" HF Cromodora wheel, which widens the track considerably and spoils the steering geometry (unless used with the HF wishbones).  Remember, Series 1 cars were fitted with a 145 section tyre on the 4.5" steel wheel, whereas the Series 2 cars have a 165 tyre but still on the 4.5" wheel, so the sidewall can roll and flex a bit, and tyre pressures are quite critical.  Using the 5.5" Cromodora, reinstates the original concept of tyre size to rim width.  Sadly, tyre rubber can degrade and become hard with age, so the governing factor to using your existing tyres is, how old are they?   I happily use 165/80x14 H rating Vredestein Classic Sprint and am very pleased with them.

Regards - Roddy

I've just fitted new Dunlop Street Response 165 x 70 x 14's on "Fay" as they have a similar rolling diameter as the 155 x 80 x 14 originals, but I'm pretty sure the 80's are available, these replaced the Dunlop SP Sports that were fitted, but no longer available, at about £54 per corner fitted.
"Fay" handles beautifully on them so I have no complaints, while I would have like to fit the correct Michelin X's I was quoted something like £450 for a set of 4, sorry but no contest.

brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: nthomas1 on 22 July, 2015, 10:20:12 PM
Thank you Frank, Roddy, Neil and Brian for your helpful pointers.   Fortunately, the Michelin XAS tyres that I have were fitted by the car's last owner and are quite new, so swapping them over should not be a problem.  As follow-on questions, will the wheel bolts fitted to the standard Fulvia steel wheels fit the 5.5" Cromodoras, and if not, can anybody provide a spec and suggest a source for appropriate bolts?  Also, do the standard centre caps fit the Cromodoras?
Cheers, Norm


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: roddy on 22 July, 2015, 11:02:27 PM
Hello Norm

The original bolts affixing the steel wheels are long enough (just) to fit the Cromodora wheels.  Put a little copper grease on the threads and curved seat of the bolts and torque up to 70ft/lbs.  Wheel centres are different and not interchangeable.  The steel wheel ones have a single nut centre fixing through the steel plate (with a large rubber 'washer').  This steel plate is an interference fit into the steel wheel - needs to be knocked out to allow a tyre fitter to remove/fit/balance steel wheels.  The Cromodora wheel centre cap has a two pin fixing with small nuts/washers. Re-manufactured centres are available.  Originals were made from mazak and will pit and corrode very badly.  Do not be tempted to use the wheels without a centre cap as it leave the wheel bearing exposed to the ingress of water, which is never a good thing.  Bearings are considerable greater cost than a wheel centre.

Regards - Roddy


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: RobD on 29 July, 2015, 11:29:22 AM
I've just fitted a set of Dunlop SP Sport 01 to my car [which has 5.5 inch Cromodoras ]. They're very quiet on the road, seem to give ample grip but most of all they've lightened up the steering considerably - to the point where I no longer wince at the stresses being put through the steering box when parking the car.   This is a major bonus because I can now let my missus drive the car [under strict supervision of course] which means she can now be a designated driver, a duty she has sneakily avoided when we've used the Fulvia for the purposes of libation.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 July, 2015, 11:33:54 AM
That's exactly the same experience I had when I fitted Dunlops to mine. Felt like it had power steering lining it up and backing into the garage. Didn't have to have a minutes rest before I got out. I'm a Dunlop convert.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: RobD on 29 July, 2015, 12:53:51 PM
Hi Stanley,
Prior to fitting the Dunlops,the steering on my Fulvia was extremely heavy at parking speeds. Initially I put this down to years of driving cars with power steering had made me go soft. But the more I drove it the more I thought surely customers in the 1970s couldn't possibly have put up with this sort of thing.
Now I've got the Dunlops  my perceptions have been realised. The Fulvia simply doesn't need power steering, with suitable tyres the steering is absolutely perfect. At £55 each the Dunlops were also surprisingly cheap.
I've resolved a number of minor but irritating issues on the Fulvia recently but the steering improvement is an unexpected bonus. I only changed the tyres because the previous ones were 80 profile and occasionally fouled the wheel arch.
 


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: Neil on 29 July, 2015, 03:55:57 PM
What exact size tyre did you fit?


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 July, 2015, 04:11:23 PM
I have what Tim Heath calls 'hooligan' tyres. When I bought it years ago they were even wider and I 'reduced' them to 185's on HF alloys it already had fitted. You were probably asking Rob the size of his but it's interesting that I had the same experience even with 185's. I literally pulled out of the fitters and thought 'That felt light'. I put it down to imagination until I reached the next roundabout and it was transformed. Then when I parked it in the garage it was a revelation, so easy. I later found Tim has narrower Dunlops on his HF so will consider that next time.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: John B on 29 July, 2015, 06:34:58 PM
Heavy steering seems to be a common problem doesn't it.......same problem with my Appia.
Initially put it down to the fact I had not driven a car without power steering for about 20 years - then I discovered I had
165's all round (Uniroyal) instead of the correct 155's, just changed to TOYO 155's.....amazing difference.
Don't know if it's down to having narrower tyres or just a different make.....probably the former.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 July, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
In my case it seemed to be the make. I had the same size fitted before but they were Yokohamas. The Dunlops transformed it. I'm sure narrower next time would help also.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: lancialulu on 29 July, 2015, 07:32:17 PM
In my case it seemed to be the make. I had the same size fitted before but they were Yokohamas. The Dunlops transformed it. I'm sure narrower next time would help also.
hooligan!!


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: fay66 on 29 July, 2015, 09:47:32 PM
I've just fitted a set of Dunlop SP Sport 01 to my car [which has 5.5 inch Cromodoras ]. They're very quiet on the road, seem to give ample grip but most of all they've lightened up the steering considerably - to the point where I no longer wince at the stresses being put through the steering box when parking the car.   This is a major bonus because I can now let my missus drive the car [under strict supervision of course] which means she can now be a designated driver, a duty she has sneakily avoided when we've used the Fulvia for the purposes of libation.


Rob,
 Surprised you found any SP Sport as I was looking for one but was told they were no longer made, neither could I find any on line, after talking to Chugga who recommends Dunlops on most Lancias, I bought a set of 165 x70 x14 Dunlop Street response which have the same rolling diameter (more or less) as the 155x80x14's  that should be fitted, great tyres, light steering, and about £56 a corner fitted.
As I'd been quoted £450 for a set of 4 of the correct original profile Michelin x's it was no contest.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: RobD on 30 July, 2015, 09:39:58 AM
Hi Brian,
Before ordering the SPs online  I asked my local garage if they could get hold of some. They quoted £55 fitted and balanced and had the tyres in stock the next day.
Previously I had some higher aspect ratio tyres on the car . Interestingly the Fulvia seems much happier with the lower gearing provided by the 175/70s. I had the car out this morning and it flew up 5,500rpm in 4th, something it was reluctant to do with the larger diameter tyres.
When I first bought the car I had all sorts of mods planned for the suspension including lowering, neg camber and stiffening it up. I'm so delighted with the way the car now drives I'm going to leave it exactly as it is . I've come to really appreciate the compliance and refinement Lancia designed into the Fulvia and have decided against trying to make it handle like a 'modern'. When I fit my new engine over the winter I may revise that decision... ;D


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: dhla40 on 30 July, 2015, 02:29:46 PM
I prefer 175/70 too, had 165/80 before which tended to squeal at tight junctions. The slightly lower gearing is better for acceleration with the limited torque of the 1.3.

Sean


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: nthomas1 on 16 August, 2015, 06:47:11 PM
Thanks for all of the useful information.

I think the Michelin XAS tyres that came with the car are older than I first thought.  Therefore, when I get my 14" by 5.5" Cromodoras refinished I'll put new tyres on them - and based on forum feedback I think I'll go with Dunlop SP Sport 01 tyres in 175/70 size.

Two final questions on this topic: is it recommended to install the tyres with or without inner tubes, and are there any special requirements with regard to valves?

Norm T


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: Neil on 16 August, 2015, 08:30:27 PM
Inner tubes would be required, despite the tyres being tubeless, the wheels were made for tubes to hold the tyre bead in the correct location on the rim.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: lancialulu on 16 August, 2015, 09:04:06 PM
Inner tubes would be required, despite the tyres being tubeless, the wheels were made for tubes to hold the tyre bead in the correct location on the rim.
I have to say this is not true as i have used tubeless tyres on Cromodoras both 5.5 and 6J without tubes for years without any problems. Indeed I was only reading by coincidence earlier today an old post from Colin Marr who stated that tubes inside tubeless tyres on Cromodoras give him a number of mysterious punctures of the tubes, and when he removed them the tyres gave no problems at all. Tubeless tyre construction has ridges generally on the inner wall which rub on the tubes and the tubes split.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: ColinMarr on 17 August, 2015, 07:51:02 AM
I think Neil is technically correct Ė these early alloys were designed to take tubed tyres and that is why I first fitted tubes on my car to go inside tube-less tyres. As Tim mentions, all was well for a few years then a series of flats and slow punctures that I put down to the tubes being abraded by the rough inner surface of the flexing tyres. Abandoning the tubes solved the problem.

A related issue is to do with the valves for Cromodora wheels. I had heard tales of rubber valves blowing out of these wheels while being inflated, when a little sideways pressure from the air-line simply dislodged them. This was put down to either a mismatch with the diameter of the rubber plug, or the wall thickness of the alloy at that point. I didnít like the sound of this and I fitted long-reach bolt-through valves. They didnít cost much and looked very professional too.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: davidwheeler on 20 August, 2015, 07:22:45 PM
I also run tubeless and bolt through valves on my Cromodoras and have never had any problems.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: nthomas1 on 21 August, 2015, 06:38:45 PM
David - can you recall where you bought your bolt-through valves from?
Cheers, Norm


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: lancialulu on 21 August, 2015, 07:33:26 PM
They really shouldn't be necessary, I have not had any problems with the valves my tyre fitter has used on more than half a dozen occasions on cromodoras. They must be selected so they have a big base to pull against.....


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: davidwheeler on 22 August, 2015, 10:10:12 AM
David - can you recall where you bought your bolt-through valves from?
Cheers, Norm
  No. but I suspect my local tyre man found them - or they were already there?


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 August, 2015, 07:55:15 PM
http://www.mistertee.co.uk/10.html

I had problems with tyres going flat on a Strada Abarth (yes...a project car...but at least this one I didn't actually pay money for...)  Eventually a different fitter recommended some fatter pull through rubber ones which solved it...nearly...there's one that's still a slow leak.  In my pile of wheels several have bolt through and dumb as it sounds it didn't occur to me to go looking for the same to solve my problem.

Link to a supplier above.  I rather like the angled ones and think I might have just become a tyre valve geek and am looking forward to next time I'm looking round a race paddock.

Of course ebay as well:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/bolt-in-tyre-valves

David


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: davidwheeler on 23 August, 2015, 03:14:06 PM
Just what I need for the motorsickle.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: michaelkaye on 19 September, 2018, 10:25:51 PM
Are the Dunlopís still available? Are they still the recommended tyre  for improving the heavy steering.

My recently purchased S2 Zagato has modern 165/80 tyres and the steering is incredibly heavy, so would be interesting to know about the Dunlops.

Thanks, m.


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: lancialulu on 20 September, 2018, 05:10:43 AM
Dont think Dunlops are readily available in 165 80 . I and a few use the Barum Brilliantis tyre on fulvia sport and coupe. Cheap and good road holding. What tyres are on there and what pressures do you have?


Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: michaelkaye on 20 September, 2018, 06:41:22 AM
Hi.

Just checked and they are in fact Barums. 165/80 R14.

Tyre pressures are 26 psi all round. Does that sound about right?



Title: Re: Tyres for Cromodora Wheels
Post by: nistri on 20 September, 2018, 07:58:54 AM
Modern tyres need higher pressure, i.e. 2 bar for all 4 of them, Andrea