Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Augusta => Topic started by: the.cern on 15 December, 2014, 06:04:36 PM



Title: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 December, 2014, 06:04:36 PM
Sorry about the thread title, just being consistent!!!

So, now for something completely different ....

I bought my Gussie, YS 1935 in 1971 and thought a couple of years would see things sufficiently advanced to get her on the road. I am guessing you are already thinking, 'not a chance' and of course you are absolutely right.

The problem this time, at least initially, was not arrival of children with its associated departure of funds, but resulted from my joining the LMC. It goes like this, buy an old Lancia, join The Lancia Motor Club ........... and then realise that life is meaningless without at least another couple of different Lancias!! So it was that I bought the B20. Before I could make my life meaningful with a driveway full of Lancias, the house began to fill up with noisy, occasionally smelly and always expensive little people and so the two cars were consigned to ignominy in the garage. Fast forward 20 years and the little people were not so small, were even noisier and a damn sight more expensive!!  That is when the first Beta arrived, written off in an early hours of the morning. I have three sons all of whom were in the car and all of whom were asleep, this included the driver, travelling at 70mph. Truly a miracle that all three survived unscathed. Another Beta, an HPE, a Trevi and four Y10s later all four offspring had flown the nest.

So, retirement and Jim arrived at about the same time, The Gussie was unearthed and hauled off to the workshop. There, the somewhat extensive rot in the rear half of the car was repaired, all four wings repaired and two running boards made. Then came the fabrication, from scratch, of a completely new boot, a real work of art. Then, with Jim on a roll I decided the Gussie could be put into storage in the garage whilst the little repair work on the B20 was carried out. I think we are at about 4 years and counting for that little repair work!!

Anyway, it is now the turn of the B20 to go into storage until the spring when it will be sent off for its new paint. Swap the cars time is here again, so it was out of the garage with the Appia, slide the Gussie across on dollies and push it out into the sun on the drive. Into the garage with the Appia, slide it, on dollies out of the way  and winch the Gussie back into the garage. The winch is required as the drive is on a slope and Jim is too old to push ...... as am I !!!!! All I have to do now is arrange the transporter and it should be a simple(????) swap.  Garage to workshop is less than a mile so it should be easy .... time will tell. Please note the use of 'should' rather than 'will'!!!

The Gussie's wings, running boards and the radiator have been removed and I have started cleaning things up in eager anticipation ...

This is how it looks at the moment ...

                            Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 December, 2014, 08:08:29 PM

What I love about your project history is that you still have them and are still pleased to have them.  Gives me hope.

The photo was on its side for me.  Hopefully the one attached below is the right way up.  Am looking forward to this one.  Any "little jobs" to be getting on with or Jim keeping you busy with Aurelia work?

David


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 December, 2014, 08:09:34 PM
Try again...


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 December, 2014, 08:10:26 PM
This one?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 December, 2014, 08:15:00 PM

What tyres are those?  They look like Cinturatos.

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/185vr16-pirelli-cinturato.html


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: brian on 15 December, 2014, 09:34:50 PM
Despite the pazz-zazz of my Flavia Sport, the restrained elegance of the B10 and the style of the Aprilia I still just love Augustas and seeing this one sans grill sans bonnet and glass still makes me smile and I feel a warm glow. They are so under-rated and charming. I could go on!!!!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 December, 2014, 10:45:27 PM
Thank you David for getting the photograph the right way up, I do not have any idea why the 'on its side' happens.

Tyres, yes, Cinturatos. They were on the car when I bought it. It is astonishing that they still are able to hold pressure. I think Chugga will recommend that I buy new. I am inclined to agree!!!

Brian, you are another of numerous voices that have repeatedly sung the praises of the Augusta. I am hopeful that I will be able to keep some momentum with the restoration whilst keeping that of the B20 going, not forgetting the knock in the Appia.

                                                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: chugga boom on 16 December, 2014, 02:31:48 PM
FANTASTIC !!!!! great to see another gussey underway , I hope I proved that on a welsh road an Augusta can more than "hold its own" and be a seriously fun car to own and drive , out of all our cars myself and dad both prefer the Augustas over any of the others , yes appia astura and fulvia are faster more comfortable and refined but they just don't give you the smile of an augusta , 


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 December, 2014, 03:53:00 PM
http://www.viva-lancia.com/snippet/snippet4.htm


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 16 December, 2014, 09:49:10 PM
James, I most certainly did enjoy our blast round the Welsh lanes and yes, I am still smiling as I recall it. Unbelievable that a pre-war car could hurtle along like that, let alone one with only a 1200cc engine.

David, thank you for that. I knew that Nuvolari was an afficionado, but was not aware of the others. As I said above, I really do need to make sure I keep the momentum going.

                                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: ColinMarr on 16 December, 2014, 11:48:59 PM
See photo of Nuvolari with his Augusta.

Colin


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 December, 2014, 03:12:59 PM

It looks a big car in that photo - I think he must have been horse jockey size.  I was surprised with mine how similar to an Austin 7 in size but looking at the numbers it doesn't really come over that way. Just looked at 2012 Fiat Panda spec against the 1932 Augusta.  Both are 61ins high - 5ft 1in.

A Panda has roughly twice the power but carries an extra 200kg.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if an Augusta on radials would pull more lateral-G or pull up as quick.  Be an interesting test for a magazine like Octane or even Autocar.  I'd also love to see VSCC trials cars (even the standard saloons) tested against soft-roaders.

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=103037
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=265243

FIAT PANDA
Wheelbase              2300mm  90.6 ins 
Track/tread (front)  1409mm  55.5 ins
Track/tread (rear)   1407mm  55.4 ins
Length                   3653mm 143.8 ins
Width                     1643mm  64.7 ins
Height                    1551mm  61.1 ins
length:wheelbase ratio  1.59
Kerb weight  1035 kg 2282 lb 
fuel tank capacity  37 litres 8.1 UK Gal 9.8 US Gal

AUGUSTA
Wheelbase             2650mm 104.3 ins 
Track/tread (front) 1223mm   48.1 ins
Track/tread (rear)  1223mm   48.1 ins
Length                  4050mm 159.4 ins
Width                   1450mm   57.1 ins
Height                  1550mm   61   ins 
Ground clearance    170mm   6.7 ins
length:wheelbase ratio 1.53
Kerb weight 850 kg 1874 lb
fuel tank capacity 42 litres 9.2 UK Gal 11.1 US Gal


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 11 January, 2015, 03:30:06 PM
So, it was about four weeks ago that I wrote the opening post of this little thread.

Things have happened since then that may make 'keeping up the momentum' a little difficult, but I will do my best.

The photographs, hopefully attached and not on their side, show where we are at the moment. They say that while the cat is away the mice will play. Lynn only went out for a short while, but it was just long enough for me to improve the appearance of the lounge. She did not agree with the last part of that statement!!!!

The reason that all this metalwork is in the house is because both the garage and the workshop are too damp for bare metal. Typical relative humidity 85%. I want to do all the primer spraying in one go, no opportunity at present, so in the lounge they will stay.

I still have to do the B20/ Gussie swap, hopefully in the next week. I am allowed to have Jim round to play on the 24th and I  would like to have them in their new homes before then.

I will keep this up to date as and when there is something to report.

                                              Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 11 January, 2015, 04:47:07 PM
Lovely........101% humidity over my way Andy, am sure if properly positioned they'd pass off as modern art!!!!


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: appiaman on 13 January, 2015, 09:43:34 PM
Metal bits looks really good, keep them dry I painted my black Appia 2 winters ago 4 panels got blistering on just not worth taking the risk


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 14 January, 2015, 07:13:52 AM
Andy

I always assumed from our discussions that you had used your B20 back in the '70's, and that your Gussie was a sort of runner, again that you had regularly used at some point, that just needed a bit of TLC. It's only dawned on me reading this thread that you bought them both as projects. Funny how assumptions form in one's mind!

Neil


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 14 January, 2015, 08:59:22 AM
Hi Neil, hope you are well and the coupe is behaving.

The B20 was bought as a 'runner' although it was quite temperamental. The cause was eventually traced to very silted up fuel lines in the vicinity of the fuel tank. This was discovered only after removing the tank. Then there was the failed oil seal that allowed oil into the rear drums and the stripped gears in the wiper mechanism that resulted in clashing wiper blades ..... I could go on !!!!!

The Gussie was bought for restoration, seized engine, non existent brakes and a piece of hardboard in place of a bootlid!!! Stupidity in the halcyon days of youth when everything seemed possible, even with little money, but at least some time. Then came children, immediately even the little money disappeared and any spare time was spent recovering from the last incident and/or resting up ready for the next one.

Hopefully I will be able to put the necessary resources together now to complete both ........ time will tell.

                                Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 21 January, 2015, 11:26:41 PM
On the 11th I promised an vehicle swap, B20 to the garage and Gussie to the workshop. I am pleased to say that yesterday it happened. All done and dusted in less than 2 hours. Jim popped along to check that I did not damage the B20 bodywork on which he has lavished so much attention, not to mention blood and sweat together with a not inconsiderable amount of cursing and swearing!!

The first photograph shows the B20 in the street outside the workshop, the first time it has been out in the open since it went into the workshop on 26th April 2010. Nearly 5 years, I hope Lynn never works out that one and I hope the Gussie will not be in there for that long. A fresh look at the Gussie sills after the talk of front axles falling off makes me think there will be quite a bit of work to do ... the good news is that Jim seems quite up for it, he has even bought himself yet another angle grinder!!

The other photographs show the cars at home, self evident are the B20 and the Gussie, the Y10 is under the car cover on the drive and the white blob, just visible in the garage, is the Appia under a selection of dust sheets.

Today I started to remove the engine ancillaries and drained the brake fluid in readiness for removal of the engine with the gearbox and then the front axle. It will not be possible to mount the car on the rotisserie so, to give ease of access,  the car will lifted at the front by about 1m which should put the front of the sills at about chest height.

The engine was rebuilt about 10 years ago, so I think it would be prudent to at least remove the head to check things out whilst it is out of the car and everything is readily accessible.

I will add more as interesting things happen ...

                                         Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: lancialulu on 22 January, 2015, 09:22:50 AM
Well done! Always nice to see a plan well executed!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 January, 2015, 09:37:12 AM

Well done!!  I know from visiting both places its tight and quite steep.

David


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 22 January, 2015, 09:42:33 AM
The last photo reminds me of a time long ago when I towed my brother in a derelict Augusta behind my B20 until we got half way up  Srtreatley hill, when the B20's clutch refused to cooperate any further. We had to reverse and turn round to find a flatter way back to Chieveley.
Regards, John


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 22 January, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
The last photo reminds me of a time long ago when I towed my brother in a derelict Augusta behind my B20 until we got half way up  Srtreatley hill, when the B20's clutch refused to cooperate any further. We had to reverse and turn round to find a flatter way back to Chieveley.
Regards, John

The thought of being towed in a derelict Augusta fills me with horror!

However, I do remember being towed in a B20 with somewhat suspect brakes. We softened this blow, both literally and metaphorically, by hanging an old tyre on the back of the tow car!!

                               Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 22 January, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
A logistical nightmare Andy!

Even as a bare shell in primer....the B20 has a purposeful look to it........not saying that the Augusta doesn't!!!!


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 January, 2015, 09:46:30 PM
Wednesday saw me starting to remove the ancillaries and disconnect cables etc in readiness for removal of the engine. Thursday saw more of the same and on Friday I loosened the engine mountings.

Today was engine removal day, unfortunately Jim was not able to attend. Despite that nothing is broken .... at least, so far as I am aware nothing is broken.

I am a firm believer that the best way to remove an engine, if the layout permits, is to drop the engine onto a sheet of ply on the floor then lift the front of the car to allow the engine to be slid out from under it on the ply. That is what I did today. It went fairly well except that the propshaft jammed between the couplings. I had undone the gearbox spider at the front Hardy Spider coupling, but I had not realised that it was still jammed in position. To drop the Gussie engine it must be released and then moved rearwards in the chassis some 50mm to allow the crank pulley to clear the front cross-member and the engine mounts to clear the sills that widen rearwards in the engine bay. With the propshaft jammed in place the engine would not move back, that cost me 30mins of great frustration. Having undone the rear coupling the propshaft dropped down out of the way  and things were straightforward after that. I used the engine crane to lift the body clear of the engine, but kept it propped as well. With the engine out of the way it was time to start on the axle. First off were the wheels followed by the brake drums, shoes, cylinders and then the back plates,

It takes somewhat longer to do than it does to write it, but it was all done in 7 hours. 

I hope the photographs help .....

                                     Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 January, 2015, 09:49:48 PM
Three more photographs .....

David, please will you rotate them where necessary for me as you have done in the past, thank you.

                          Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 January, 2015, 09:59:10 PM
.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 January, 2015, 10:06:18 PM
.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 January, 2015, 10:35:37 PM
Thank you David. I really do not have the faintest idea why some of the photographs appear on their side. I just appreciate you putting it right for me.

                                Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 25 January, 2015, 10:54:33 PM
Well, yesterday was out with the engine and today was to be off with the front axle.

The plan was to simply release the steering linkage and undo the 6 bolts securing the front axle to the sills. So simple in principle, but fraught with potential difficulties. After all, what can go wrong with undoing bolts that most probably have not been touched since they were tightened in Turin in 1935!!!!

The car was supported on an axle stand and a trolley jack under the sills in the region of the A posts with the engine crane providing additional support to the front axle and the front of the car.

In fact, although 1 bolt sheared it was all remarkably straightforward and trouble free. The steering linkage was readily released and the other 5 bolts securing the axle, although very tight, all came undone without any problem.

The axle was then lowered away for further attention.

Attention then turned to the body. I wanted to remove all loads from the sills forward of the A posts and to achieve this a workmate was placed under the cruciform part of the chassis. Careful inspection of the photographs will reveal that the workmate was turned round to give more direct support to the body loads. Doing this proved that it is possible, having removed the engine and front axle, for a pensioner to lift the front of a Gussie whilst support is re-arranged!!!!

I got on with removing steerage links from the axle while Jim tackled the sills. We had realised that the previous repairs I had carried out to the sills by a supposedly professional restoration company in the 70s were not up to scratch and Jim set about removing paint and filler to reveal the extent of the problems. The last photograph shows nearly 10mm of filler over poorly shaped (two straights cranked where there should be a smooth curve) repair patches welded on top of the rusty original metal. It is possible to see where the repair piece is standing proud from the original steel be about 1mm .... unbelievable!!! Jim will continue to investigate over the coming days.

The steering links were easily removed thanks to a little advice from Chugga and new Silentbloc bushes will be obtained (good old Robush).

That is it for now, I am very pleased with the progress that has been made, after all, the Gussie only arrived in the workshop on Tuesday.

                      Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 25 January, 2015, 10:59:06 PM
Three more photographs.

The second photograph shows the sliding pillar/steering link joint. This was where Chugga's help was needed. Heat and a hammer ... simples!!

                       Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 January, 2015, 07:07:01 AM
Wow !

MOT by the end of next week ?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 26 January, 2015, 10:59:53 AM
Motoring on Andy..............so tell me, is the "repair" uncovered classified as a botched repair or a bodge, this is very important?!

One being someone not good at what they were at and the other to mislead a potential buyer?


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 26 January, 2015, 07:38:11 PM
A botched repair!!!

I was given a good reference for the company and handed over the car in good faith. It was only recently that the full extent of the botch has become apparent.

One piece of good news, the outside face of the right-hand sill between the steering box and the axle appears to be original and in good condition!! Unfortunately the left-hand sill is obviously badly corroded and and will require a lot of  tender ministration from Jim.

                                       Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 08 February, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Moving on .... Jim reviewed a set of photographs of a car with the outer sill skin cut away showing the construction details adjacent to the front axle, very helpful. The photographs also revealed likely problem areas, a great help in deciding how/where exactly to tackle my car. So, one happy Jim with a big grin and an angle grinder. I will get some photographs today, but suffice it to say that the initial proposal to lift the front of the car is fundamentally flawed!!! There is rather a lot of work to do!!!! It  has become obvious that the car will have to go on the rotisserie, but how to attach it at the front if the sills are the areas that require work? Fortunately, some years ago, I visited Mike Raahauge who was/is working on his Gussie and at the time his car was on a purpose made rotisserie for work to the sills including the front axle area. I contacted Mike who has been most helpful. In a nutshell, the load of the front of the car is picked up on the engine mountings thus leaving the fronts of the  sills free for repair. Easy when you think of it!! So, that is where we are now, Jim is fabricating the jig for the front and we will use the beam from the B20 set-up to pick up the rear of the car. This rear is sound as Jim rebuilt the whole area when the car was previously in the workshop. I have been preparing to remove the back axle, remove shock absorbers (2 new Silentblocs required, then) disconnect flexible brake pipe and handbrake cables. The propshaft is already off so now it is simply (I hope) a matter of the spring shackle bolts front and rear. More to follow, but attached is a photograph of the handbrake clevis pins, I have not been able to inspect the forks yet ......

                                  Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 February, 2015, 06:45:36 PM

Hey ho...

At least you'll be able to absolutely 100pct mash on the brakes and trust it.

David


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 10 February, 2015, 07:58:19 PM
Well, I have inspected the forks and, yes, you have guessed it .. they are oval!!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 10 February, 2015, 08:38:25 PM
Just a couple of photographs to show the situation regarding the sills adjacent to the front axle mounting location.

The left hand sill, which appeared to be in a worse condition than the right hand one, has been cut open and the construction may be clearly seen. The bottom of the central diaphragm, with the large oval cut-out, has rusted away. The diaphragm, which is 2mm thick, will be cut back to sound metal and new 2mm steel welded in. Similar action will be taken with the inner and outer sill  skins as necessary. The outer skins have rusted badly, hence the dodgy repairs previously carried out!!!! The photograph of the right hand sill which is still whole at the moment, shows the extent of the corrosion in this vital area. Jim has already identified some areas to be cut away .... and there will  be more!!!!

When the B20 was on the rotisserie it became clear that it being static was something of a disadvantage. Therefore I have bought some box section steel which will be used to link the two separate rotisserie ends which, with the bodyshell, will make a rigid structure that will be supported on 6 castors. There will be one castor directly under each of the four legs of the rotisserie ends and another in the middle of the two linking sections to stop them deflecting which will help stiffen the whole assembly. Then it may be wheeled around to provide better access. If it all falls over I will blame Jim, who in turn will blame me!!!! I am confident it will not come to this (well, fairly confident!!).

                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 16 February, 2015, 08:53:41 AM
Mobile rotisserie time!!!

I ordered 6 castors rated at 250kg, bit of spare capacity there, and, as it turned out, about double the amount of required box section. The trouble is that you never know how the theoretical design will translate into practice and there is nothing worse than running out of materials when everywhere is closed!!!

The practice was not that far from the theory, but there were some interesting moments, such as when one end did a Bambi on ice impression and when we discovered one end was rocking on the rotisserie and the other end was supported by a jack which led to some to some alarming and sudden tilting of the shell!!

The photographs show the end result, I hope you can determine what is going on given all the other stuff lying around!!

                                            Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 16 February, 2015, 09:01:09 AM
The photograph attached to this post justifies all the effort that has gone into checking the sills.

All this corrosion was simply patched over by the supposed professional with no effort made to find out how things worked and therefore what needed to be done .... just cover it over with new sheet steel, hammer it back behind the finished line and cover the whole lot with filler!!!!

I hope I have learnt my lesson!!

                                  Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 16 February, 2015, 09:12:44 AM
More progress again Andy.........shame the previous repair was a non repair in effect, anyways, you've a blog record of it now on this forum for the next buyer!!!!


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 February, 2015, 07:51:44 AM
I really enjoy seeing restoration pictures like these. It gives real insight into the design and manufacturing thought - yes,  they look lovely from above, but it's the underneath and normally hidden bits that are really interesting .....


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 26 March, 2015, 08:35:30 AM
Although things have gone quiet on the thread work has continued apace.

The first photograph shows the LH sill at the front with the outer removed and the central diaphragm cut back to reveal the construction. Visible are the bottom ends of the two stiffening webs that radiate from the axle housing and which tie the inner skin to the diaphragm. Fortunately they are in sound condition and require no work. The whole is extremely strong, but, the steel skins being so close together and with precious little paint/protection inside the sill, it is no wonder the corrosion is so bad. Actually, I am surprised it is not worse! It appears we will be replacing the bottom half of the middle diaphragm and the whole of the outer skin, the inner skin will be repaired as necessary. This will apply to the front part of the sill, front axle to the front of the cruciform. From the latter point rearwards the inner skin stops and the sill is formed with just an inner and an outer skin

The second photograph shows the sill with the bodge repairs removed, I think there will be some new metal going in there!!! The third photograph shows the original bits of sill as removed. The smaller piece is all that remains of the bottom of the sill, whilst the larger piece is the outer skin. This had a line of holes and corrosion along the line of the running board, not at all surprising!!

More to follow!!

                     Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 March, 2015, 09:55:23 AM

If I understand correctly there's an inner which you see inside the engine bay, an outer visible under the wings, and an inner membrane that runs about two feet back from the axle.  The inner web has an aspect of corrugation to it.  Have you a photo showing all of that inner web?  (other than the bit you've cut off - maybe including that bit before it was cut off?)  It also looks "open" on the right hand side.

Between the inner and the middle a pair of webs radiate off the axle housing.

With the base of mine having rotted out on one side and with some obvious crash repair work and patching I have an interest to be sure...

David


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 March, 2015, 10:48:12 AM
I was wondering how you were getting on ..... Excellent and looking forward to more pictures. I love seeing how it was all made


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 27 March, 2015, 09:12:42 PM
David,especially for you!!!!

Using your terminology, yes, you are exactly right about the three skins. This situation pertains from the front of the sill to the front of the cruciform. At that point the inner sill, ie that visible in the engine bay, stops and the sill construction is only two skins. The middle skin continues as the inner skin and the outer maintains its situation as the outer skin, visible down the length of the car as far as the front of the rear wheel arch. In the attached photographs there is a small piece of the middle skin omitted adjacent to the front axle location. The omitted  piece allows the view of the stiffening webs radiating from the axle.

If you really want to check it you should visit. Jim is here both this and next weekend, I am here this weekend but will be away over Easter. I hope this helps.

Best wishes,

                    Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 29 March, 2015, 07:56:57 PM
More work today ....

Jim is pressing on with cutting out the rusted parts of the middle and outer skins of the left hand sill. He thinks that at last he has cut out enough rust from the bottoms of the middle and outer skins to warrant putting in new!!! The top of the outer skin, where the wing abuts the sill has, inevitably, suffered. Let's call it lacy, so that will have to be cut out and replaced. At least that is 1mm and easy to work, unlike the inner and middle skins that are thicker and harder to work. We have had a good look at the detail where the front of the cruciform meets the sill. The inner skin butts up to and is welded to the middle of the vertical diaphragm at the end of the cruciform. The central skin flies past the end of the cruciform and is welded to the end of the vertical diaphragm. The flange at the bottom of the central skin widens at this point to pick up the inner skin. This is shown in the third photograph below. The first photograph shows the first new steel going in whilst the second shows the detail at the front of the cruciform.

While Jim has been doing this I am continuing with removal of the paint on the bulkhead and petrol tank area with the hot air gun and scraper. The final finish will be with polydisc and an assortment of different size wire brushes in a drill. Also, I have drawn up and started to cut steel to make an engine stand to aid the rebuild of both the Gussie and B20 engines.

More to follow, but a few days off first.

                                         Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: frankxhv773t on 30 March, 2015, 12:37:05 PM
Having had some training and considerably experience I have to take exception to the use of the term "bodge" to describe a job done to deliberately deceive.

A bodger is a craftsman who makes articles out of green wood as opposed to seasoned wood, often working in a woodland setting. The results are necessarily less refined than the products of a carpenter or cabinet maker but tend to have a certain rustic charm.

So, if anybody want's to repair their cills with green woodwork I would be happy to "bodge" them for you..............

Name and address withheld.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 30 March, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Hi Frank, David Laver is the only one I know of to use wood in the sills of a Lancia. He cheated by using seasoned par timber, not timber in the green. So, I will keep your kind offer in mind in case Jim gets stroppy and refuses to come round to play!!

                                                    Andy

PS do you have a pole lathe? They have always fascinated me.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: fay66 on 30 March, 2015, 11:48:15 PM
Hi Frank, David Laver is the only one I know of to use wood in the sills of a Lancia. He cheated by using seasoned par timber, not timber in the green. So, I will keep your kind offer in mind in case Jim gets stroppy and refuses to come round to play!!

                                                    Andy

PS do you have a pole lathe? They have always fascinated me.

I had quite a converstion with a Fulvia 2c owner in Switzerland about 10 years ago,his 2c was in a far worse condition than "Fay" and he carried out a great restoration, but when he got to the padded dash cover and the other padded parts of the dash that turn in to dust, he couldn't find any replacements, so he promptly carved them in wood, beautiful workmanship but I'd have hated to have a crash in it!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 April, 2015, 07:21:40 PM
Andy, I have used a pole lathe and had a half share in one but the other half share was taken over by wood worm. I help out on a recreation of a Tudor / Stuart period farm and my efforts these days go into buildings and roof structures though I do have the delightful prospect of possibly building a cider press.

On Brian's wooden dash top, I have often thought balsa wood might serve well and provide some impact absorption if the worst were to happen.

Frank


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Kari on 02 April, 2015, 07:26:26 AM
Hello Andy,

With great interest I follow your reports from the restoration of your Augusta. It stirs memories from not so long ago when I went through all this.

I have taken a lot of pictures from various stages of the repairs and I you wish I can supply many detail pictures and other information.

Karl


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 29 April, 2015, 12:41:19 PM
Hi Karl, thank you for your kind offer, we have moved on quite well since the beginning of the month although there is still a lot to do.

The left side is done apart from the outer sill and the right side is almost complete, again apart from the outer sill. Chugga is making a batch of Gussie/Belna outer sills and we have decided to wait for those rather than make our own as there are one or two other little tasks to complete in the meantime and our efforts are best directed at them!!!!

The first photograph show the underside of the RH sill as found and the second, a repair piece let in after the corroded metal has been removed. The horrors of both sills were covered by poorly made and even more poorly welded repairs pieces just bent crudely over the original rusted sills.

Jim is playing with Humbers at the moment but we will soon be back on the Gussie. In the meantime, I am about to start in earnest on the B20 engine.

                                          Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 29 April, 2015, 12:42:57 PM
I lied .... no second photograph, I will try again!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Kari on 01 May, 2015, 11:24:22 AM
Hello Andy,

On the Augusta, it's the sills who suffer corrosion the most. I have not seen so far an Augusta who has no repairs there including mine. However the damage was slightly less, but both sills were distorted by earlier accidents. Additionally, the front was twisted by about 3 degress from a crash I had 1963. Instead of mounting the body on a "grille", I had to put the car on a temporary stand with markings on the floor to get all lined up again.

Look at the metall I have cut away, not on the picture are the 2 running boards which were not of original shape.

regards

Karl


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 25 May, 2015, 08:37:32 PM
The right hand sill is now ready for the outer sill to be collected soon from Chugga. In the meantime Jim has made and welded in the new floor on the right hand side, under the driver's feet. The main panel has been quite straightforward, the time consuming part has been making and welding in the two small repair patches, one on the transmission tunnel and the other on the seat support 'box'.

I have been getting filthy trying to clean off the paint and rust from the underside, it is a really evil job, but necessary!!!! Of course the body, inside and out, also has to be cleaned back to bare metal. I wonder who will be doing that? I am trying to push on with it in the hope that I will be able to get it sprayed this summer .... we will see whether or not I hit that target in due course!!

The photograph shows the floor as at present, a little more welding et voila ...


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: brian on 26 May, 2015, 08:23:45 PM
I know exactly what you are doing and do not envy you!! I had my body shell grit blasted inside and out to expose the pinhole rust etc and the whole was phosphated (I think that is what they called it) to prevent re-rusting. I then had to wire brush all surfaces inside and out and put primer on the outside. The inside had 2 layers of Hammerite all over. I can say I know every square cm of the car. Worth it? Yes indeed as 20+years on the steel is still solid and no obvious rusty areas. Untidy admittedly - but then I did all the welding, leading, painting myself so very amateurish. Good luck - Augustas are worth it.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 26 May, 2015, 08:55:08 PM
Thank you Brian, very encouraging. I am really looking forward to finishing the Gussie and the first drive.

                                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 26 July, 2015, 09:40:05 PM
Nearly nine weeks since the last post!!! As I posted in my Aurelia thread, things have been moving on.

The outer sills were collected from James on 29th June on my way back to Essex after a three day visit to  N Wales. Jim came along to start the fitting two weeks ago. The apparent simplicity of the construction is misleading. There is a swage line in the bottom of the sill the line of which varies along its length. In addition there are the running board mount bolt holes to be determined and drilled plus, unusually, the forward rear spring hanger projects through the sill but is not attached to it. Today it was all finished and is looking very good. There remains some patching to the outer lefthand sill forward of the A post and then that should be the welding completed.

The front axle needs to be checked and rebuilt. I am tempted to hand it to James for the restoration as he has all the special tools and has just finished two others!!! He knows what he is doing whereas I would be going in blind ..... not that that has ever stopped me before!!!

Then I will lift the head off to check the bores as they are thought to be suspect. If there is work required, now is the time to do it!!! The brakes must be checked as it the car has stood for so long ...... the list goes on!!!!

However, we are moving forward, just too damn slowly.

                                                              Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 July, 2015, 10:57:28 PM

Too slowly?  While the destination is fantastic so is the journey.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 16 August, 2015, 08:49:00 PM
You are definitely right David, the journey is fantastic ...... it is just that some bits are more fantastic than others!!!!!

Today's bits fall into the not so fantastic category!!!!

Today was, let's take one of the rear springs to bits and clean off the rust, paint and other muck!!!! Not my idea of fun, but it needs to be done. I've done the four smallest leaves of the RH spring  and am fed up with it already!!!! Still, so much fun to look forward to!!!! ... the larger leaves of the RH and the whole of the LH spring.

                                     Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: appiaman on 19 August, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Hi Andy I stripped mine and had them sandblasted  but my ones are so worn I might get some new made let me now if interested . Maybe we can get a discount for a few sets
Christo


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 21 August, 2015, 09:47:51 PM
Hi Andy I stripped mine and had them sandblasted  but my ones are so worn I might get some new made let me now if interested . Maybe we can get a discount for a few sets
Christo

Thank you for getting all the photographs posted, some bits look familiar, the same problem areas. I am jealous to see that you have what appears to be a serviceable bootlid!! That will save you a tidy sum!!!
I have jut finished stripping my leaf springs and  they appear to be quite sound with what I consider to be insignificant wear, so I will pass on offer of new springs.

                                            Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 23 August, 2015, 09:57:15 AM
What I failed to mention in my previous post is that when I dismantled the second of the two springs I committed the cardinal sin ............ I was not concentrating and I failed to restrain the spring as I undid the central bolt!!! There was an almighty bang, orange dust everywhere and spring leaves leaping everywhere. I was lucky, I got my knuckles rapped, literally and metaphorically and no more.  Somewhat painful, but no real damage!!! I hope I have learnt my lesson.

Anyway, all the leaves are cleaned of paint, rust and crud and most are now in primer, so I'm getting on.



I have been thinking about the reassembly, particularly silentbloc bushes. The rear end of the springs pivot on a pair of double needle roller bearings that are no longer available, so I will use silentblocs ..... this is a common way out of the problem. Then we come to the front end. A standard size silentbloc is used, but and it's a big but, the way Lancia designed the bush housing it is not possible to clamp the ends of the inner steel sleeve, to prevent it from rotating, by tightening the through bolt. Thus it is possible that the rotation will occur about the through bolt rather than, as it is designed to do, through distortion in the rubber annulus. To get over this problem the inner steel sleeve of the silenbloc is serrated on one end and locks with a similarly serrated steel bush (part 31-5740 on TAV 16) which in turn locks onto the silentbloc housing. I am having 2 silentblocks modified with the serrations at a local machine shop. Price to be advised when the work is done. I will post the price and comment on the work when I get the bushes back in a week or two. It may be that other Gussie owners will want to consider this. In the attached photograph the serrated bushes should be, of course, reversed.

                                                Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: appiaman on 24 August, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
Hi Andy,

All those bushes are available  from cavallito they are 25 euro each part number 34-5738 for the roller side ones and I don't now the part number for the other side.
I am having new spring made 110 each
Making new bolts too as mine badly rusted .
Christo


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 August, 2015, 05:44:50 PM
I will be onto that tomorrow!!! Thanks Christo.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 August, 2015, 09:41:53 PM
In cleaning the leaves of the rear springs I have found numbers stamped into the top leaf on both sides.
The top right hand spring is stamped              16391
                                                                     325

The top left hand spring is stamped                 164?6      the fourth number is illegible!
                                                                      325

Any thoughts on this? I am assuming that the upper number is a sequential production number, but what of the lower number?

                                     Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 07 September, 2015, 08:07:44 AM
Just a little more on the rear springs. They are now finished and ready to go back on the car. Unfortunately there is a lot more to do on the car before it is ready to receive them!!!

The photographs show the springs part re-assembled, fully assembled and the state of the underside at the close of play yesterday. The underside has been scraped free of crap, but has to be cleaned back to bare metal. The yellow has been completed and is in primer, there is still a lot to do!! Virtually the whole of the inside needs to be cleaned back to bare metal ..... so quite a lot of work there!!!

NB in the photograph the bolts through the spring clamps are temporary, the correct ones are now in place.

                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 07 September, 2015, 08:21:50 AM
Its all progress Andy, every step leads you to the next area to restore and can be ticked off the list, at the end of next year(?), you'll have so much time on your hands you be spending a fortune on petrol touring the UK, Europe in one or other of your stable of Lancias!!!!!


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 07 September, 2015, 05:35:23 PM
Rear door check straps ......

I thought I had damage to both rear door hinge posts where the check check straps pass through them, not uncommon with suicide doors!!! However, having cleaned off the paint it was only the RH side that needed attention. The first task was to remove the check strap ... the cables are sweated in to the ends pieces and the blow lamp made short work of the end which attaches to the door. The end of the cable, which is spread, was then cut off with the angle grinder. A short length of copper pipes acts as a duct through the door pillar and this was removed to allow the necessary welding. Jim cut out the damaged lengths of the front and rear faces of the door pillar and welded in new pieces. A new duct was made from 15mm copper pipe and fitted ready to take the check strap which will not be refitted until after the shell has been sprayed.

The photograph shows the front of the new copper duct and it is possible to make out the repair patch which is approximately 40mm square.

                                     Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 07 September, 2015, 05:38:36 PM
Its all progress Andy, every step leads you to the next area to restore and can be ticked off the list, at the end of next year(?), you'll have so much time on your hands you be spending a fortune on petrol touring the UK, Europe in one or other of your stable of Lancias!!!!!


P

I have quite a bit of Gussie bottom to clean before  I get to that stage!!!!

                           Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 08 September, 2015, 07:21:44 AM
An omission on my part .... I should have posted photographs of the damaged door pillars, so here they are. The RH one has suffered badly and required a full repair, whereas with the LH one, the cracking is merely around the lead filler and only the copper duct has been replaced.

                             Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 12 October, 2015, 07:38:59 AM
Further to my post of the 23rd August I have got the modified silentbloc bushes. I have yet to fit them but the serrated clamp bush fits snugly, although there has been some deterioration in them over the 80 year life of the car. However, I am confident that it will all go together. The machining costs were 25 and that is in addition to the cost of the silentblocs, so Cavalitto's 25 euro (plus postage?) would appear to be a better bet.

Anyway, here are the photographs.

                          Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: lancialulu on 12 October, 2015, 11:02:01 AM
That's interesting but shows total design over kill with those serrations?

Surely the accepted practice of bolting flat surfaces together with silent blocks (at the appropriate midway tension point) should suffice???

Unless originality is the aim....

Were the bushes sourced from Robush?





Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 12 October, 2015, 08:35:46 PM
The way  I understand silentbloc operation is that the outer steel sleeve is an interference or clamped fit which stops it rotating. The inner sleeve is normally prevented from rotating by being clamped axially by tightening the central bolt. Thus all rotation occurs within the rubber annulus between the two restrained steel sleeve. The problem with these bushes at the front of the rear cart springs used on the Gussie is that the design layout of the bush support does not allow the bush inner sleeve to be clamped when the central bolt is tightened. Thus it is necessary to physically restrain the  central sleeve in another way. Thus the serrations!!!

                                             Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 12 October, 2015, 08:38:51 PM
Sorry, I skipped the last two points ....

originality .... not sacrosanct, but normally I only deviate from original when safety or engineering principles dictate

yes, the bushes came from Robush.

                               Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 October, 2015, 08:59:40 PM
I am sure that I have seen some of the serrated nuts/bushes on other Lancias - but I can't remember where  !!

Nice job getting the bushes cut like that !


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 10 April, 2016, 09:14:15 PM
I have continued work on the Gussie despite there not being any recent updates.

In the course of the recent work I have found an unusual use for a Gussie .... caging a welder!!!!

More serious reports should be posted in the next couple of weeks!!!!

                                Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 April, 2016, 07:59:47 AM
Some progress to report at last ......

The shell is now completed and ready to go to the paint shop. The interior and underside have a brushed finish and are in black in the accompanying photograph. The areas to be sprayed are in red oxide primer, solely for protection and this will be removed prior to spraying. The wings, doors, bootlid and running boards are in a similar state, whilst the bonnet, alloy, is bare metal. So it is now just a matter of sending it on its way ...... oh, also finding the money!!!!!

Not many words to describe a huge amount of work and effort, but well worth it!!

                                    Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 April, 2016, 01:25:18 PM
An excellent milestone, and so correct - a few words to describe such a lot



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Dilambdaman on 17 April, 2016, 06:21:21 AM
Progress indeed Andy, well done! From my experience the return of a freshly painted body shell is a huge encouragement. But it ain't cheap these days.

Robin.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 20 April, 2016, 10:39:19 PM
Jim and I have applied more paint to the non shell elements, doors, bootlid, wing and runningboards. We now hope that there is no area left untouched and not covered with a generous amount of protective paint!!!!

After all that has been done, well, what next??? Time to address all the numerous 'bits and pieces' that inevitably need derusting/degreasing/cleaning before they can be painted and installed back on the car.
Added to that is the need to get the shell back on its axles and off the rotisserie. Sounds easy, but there is the need to check and in this case, replace the rear wheel bearings and associated oil seals. Again, sounds easy, that is until the existing assemblies are stripped and checked!! I drew the half shafts and found one to be dirty and worn whilst the other appeared to be a relatively recent replacement. There is little to wear on the half shafts apart from the part where the oil seal bears. True to form, the 'new' half shaft showed no sign of wear, whereas the 'old' shaft displayed considerable wear to the oil seal collar. This interference fit collar appears to be an integral part of the shaft but may be removed and replaced where necessary.  So, the wear, greater than 1mm, is apparent in the attached photograph of the collar as removed. I will have a new collar turned up, probably without the oil spinner turnings as the presence of a modern lip seal will render them redundant. The new collar will be fixed in place with Loctite. I must acknowledge the previous work done by Dale Hicks in respect of this modification.

                                          Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 05 May, 2016, 10:14:27 PM
'Bits and pieces' ........ well so far this has included the bootlid catch, a beautiful bit of over-engineering, the hand-brake cable pulley, a fusebox lid and, today, the trims on the inside faces of the A posts. There are photographs of first two of these.

                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: davidwheeler on 11 May, 2016, 08:06:27 AM
It is possible to get sleeves to fit over worn shafts to restore for lip oil seals.   Try your local bearings shop.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 11 May, 2016, 06:16:47 PM
Thank you David, that is something of which I was not aware ..... too late for the Gussie but that tip may well (read probably!) be useful in the future with one of my other efforts!!!!

                                       Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 May, 2016, 09:43:06 PM
The bits and pieces keep coming .... now its the gear lever. The knob was SO tight and I did not want to damage it by putting it in the vice. I am pleased to say it eventually succumbed! Note the jubilee clip around the cowl that is situated at the base of the lever. This is necessary as the threads for the locating pins have been stripped.

I am advised that both the gear lever and handbrake  should be nickel plated .... mine have been painted, badly. Another task to be addressed soon.

                                         Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 24 May, 2016, 09:56:08 PM
Time for the steering column and the steering box .....

I managed to break a piece off the steering box while dismantling it, I as not best pleased!!!! It will be re-attached, it's just that I am not yet sure quite how!!! Fortunately this has no impact on the function of the steering box, but it really does look awful!!! Anyway, out with angle grinder and electric drills with an assortment of wire brushes and everything is looking a lot better ... especially after a couple of coats of satin black!!! There seems to be no play in the mechanism so this is a clean and paint operation except for the oil seal on the output shaft. This has been weeping and I hope to find a modern lip seal to replace the original felt and tapered washer arrangement. It's all in the photographs!!

                                                  Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 May, 2016, 06:03:27 AM
The gear lever locking system is similar to Aprilia

What is the pipe coming off the base of the steering box ?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: davidwheeler on 25 May, 2016, 06:11:40 PM
Chromium plating came in about 1929 - my VIIth Lambda - 1928 is nickel but the VIIIth - 1930 is chromed.     I wonder what is under the paint?   Whatever, insist on a good layer of copper first as both nickel and chrome are porous and you are restoring for the next 80 years.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 25 May, 2016, 08:16:43 PM
Augusta gear levers are normally chrome plated, as is the collar which hold it in place. The "pipe" coming out of the steering box is the electrical cable for the horn.
Regards, John


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 11 June, 2016, 09:28:36 AM
Chromium plating came in about 1929 - my VIIth Lambda - 1928 is nickel but the VIIIth - 1930 is chromed.     I wonder what is under the paint?   Whatever, insist on a good layer of copper first as both nickel and chrome are porous and you are restoring for the next 80 years.

 '...... and you are restoring for the next 80 years.' No pressure here then David!!!!

I am of a mind that I will not be available to check the quality of the restoration in another 80 years!! If I am it will be a miracle and, to be honest, I am sure I won't give a damn. In fact, judging by the way things are going at the moment, I will not remember ever having done a restoration!!!!

                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 11 June, 2016, 10:03:54 AM
So, it is over two week since I posted about work on the Gussie, but I have not been idle!

The rear axle has been rebuilt with a new oil seal sleeve on one side, new oil seals, new bearings,  new Belleville washers and new bearing retaining nuts. I just hope the diff. is ok! I am just keeping my fingers crossed with that!!!

Photographs of the assembly procedure. They might all look a bit the same, but they show each stage after the half shaft has been inserted. I am annoyed that I have omitted to take photographs of the half shafts and the axle casing without the half shaft inserted. I will not be dismantling it just to get those pictures!!

                                       Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 12 June, 2016, 08:07:47 AM
Another item that has had a little attention has been the hand brake lever. This had been badly painted, as had the gear lever. The jury is out as to whether they should be finished in nickel or chrome plate!! More investigation required.

Anyway, the paint has been stripped and the ratchet mechanism dismantled and cleaned, but I still have to deal with the ratchet operating rod and button. The bushes about which the mechanism rotates have been centre punched to prevent them from working loose. Apparently a common practice, but not one that I have come across before, so they must be drilled out and new bushes made.

Photographs to follow ..... when I can find them!!!!

                                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: chugga boom on 12 June, 2016, 09:17:26 PM
Andy you don't need to drill it out, drift it through and re centre punch it when refitting , done it on atleast 4 and worked fine, j


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 12 June, 2016, 10:31:26 PM
The punching is standard? I had thought that someone had done an earlier repair. That is very helpful, thanks James.

                             Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 13 June, 2016, 10:33:13 PM
Just a quick photograph showing the old and new oil seal sleeves ... that is a fair amount of wear!!!

              Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 13 June, 2016, 10:58:57 PM
Another little delightful piece of Lancia engineering .... the door check strap!!!

Steel cable No.6 is soldered into no.7 and is screwed into the frame of the door. The other end of no.6 is soldered into a short externally threaded tube which passes through the hinge pillar. No.5 is a rubber buffer with an internally threaded steel core, no.4. Then follows no.3 which is a felt bush with a steel tube centre. The whole is retained by washer no. 2 and nut no.1.

I believe the felt bush, no.3 does no more than stop the assembly banging around between the bodywork and the internal trim when the door is in the closed position!!!

Contrary to what I thought initially, the assembly can be removed without having to unsolder the no.6/no.7 joint, simply by undoing the nut no.1 and the threaded steel core no.4. Simply is not accurate, the nut is easy, but undoing no.4 is difficult as there is no way of holding the threaded tube and the steel cable simply winds up!!!!

                                   Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 June, 2016, 06:03:36 AM
Lancia are always full of little surprises ......

I am enjoying all the detail !


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 14 June, 2016, 06:20:43 AM
I now have a photograph of the handbrake ratchet pivots showing the centre punch work referred to above. I will apply a little heat and drift them out, as recommended by Chugga! Then I will be able to finish the cleaning and start a pile of parts for plating.

                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 14 June, 2016, 07:04:17 AM
Just a quick photograph showing the old and new oil seal sleeves ... that is a fair amount of wear!!!

              Andy

Andy, thats like something off a potters wheel, or maybe it has a place as part of a modern art display.

It must have been the Italians who came up with the phrase...."The devil is in the detail"


P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 14 June, 2016, 07:20:30 AM
 ........ and to make the art functional, glue a circle of glass to the ribbed end, et voila, one has a beautiful shot glass!!!!  :)

                              Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 June, 2016, 07:01:49 AM
Something that I had no idea about came up a few months ago!! Jim had mentioned some welds on the sills and cross member in the front of the engine bay and commented that something was missing. Independently, a couple of months later James Parry showed me an original Belna shell with aprons welded to the sills and front cross member!! This it seems was standard detail for Augustas and Belnas ...... and there was a third apron that fitted into the rear of the front aprons that filled in around the back of the engine, so the whole of the engine bay was floored out. This was all news to me!!!

Fortunately James decided to re-manufacture the two front  aprons so I ordered  a pair!!

Photographs to show what I mean and then the 'how to do it' bit in the next post. The third photograph is poor quality but having seen the first two it is possible to make out all three aprons. 

                    Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 June, 2016, 07:44:32 AM
Well this should be easy, James has made the parts, there are photographs too show where they fit, simples!! Actually, NO!! James has always maintained there is no such thing as a standard Lancia. As each car is potentially different and as the aprons are a snug fit, especially the right hand one around the Autokleen oil filter, it is prudent to install the engine to check and to adjust the aprons if necessary.  That is the instruction, not difficult, but the reality is something else!!

The shell is on the rotisserie which not only has a limited load capacity, but also is attached to the shell with brackets extending through the engine bay. See first photograph. So the shell must come off the rotisserie. I contemplated axle stands under the sills, but was not comfortable with that so decided to put on the front axle with axle stands under that. My axle is away being rebuilt so a borrowed axle was put on, the fixings for that did not align by about 2mm so the left side was bolted in correctly, but the right side was attached with a strap. Bear in mind that the shell will be put on a transporter to go away for its respray so this is all work that would be necessary for that operation! So the axle was fitted and the shell was lowered on the rotisserie by some 300mm onto a steel stand at the rear and onto the axle on axle stands at the front. Then the front A frame of the rotisserie was removed followed by the brackets in the engine bay. My home made (not by me) engine crane was extricated from a corner of the workshop and the engine wheeled out from its hiding place and the relatively easy task of putting the engine onto its bearers was managed without any hiccups. The aprons were offered up, LH a perfect fit, excellent. The RH, unfortunately the Autoclean fouled the cut out in the apron and was some 6mm short of the front cross member. Time for Jim!!! He duly arrived and the necessary modification agreed. Then engine out, clean paint off the areas that will be welded and put the engine back in ready for a final check prior to tack welding the aprons in place which will happen tomorrow.

A few photographs to give an idea of the fun and games!!

                           Andy

PS I split the engine and gearbox to make it easier to install the engine on my own and also I have a new clutch spring to fit!!! I wonder where I put that????


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 June, 2016, 08:05:56 AM
Having read the above, a couple of points:-

1) the engine is not meant to be nose down as it is in the photographs ... but it did remind me that I need to look at the front engine mountings (3 leaf cantilever springs) as there is a wear groove in the front cross member where the crankshaft pulley has fouled it!!!

2) look at the first photograph in the previous post. The hole is for the Autoclean and it is quite clear that on this car there has been some serious movement of the engine relative to the body, the hole is meant to be circular. See the 3rd photograph of that post where, although it is somewhat murky, the hole is clearly visible and is circular!!

                                     Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 June, 2016, 08:10:14 AM
Fascinating - more please !

I hadn't realised how far back the rotisserie fits


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 15 June, 2016, 08:17:18 AM
Fascinating - more please !

I hadn't realised how far back the rotisserie fits

With the B20 we just fitted it to the bumper mountings so it was mounted only on the face of the shell. The Gussie was a different matter. One area of concern was the front of the sills where there are three vertical skins close together which can corrode badly. Therefore we decided to try and take some of the loads back to the engine mountings ....... ideally all the loads should have been back there but it was difficult to see how to achieve that. As it happened, the corrosion was not as bad as I had feared (and seen) so all was well!!

                                  Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 15 June, 2016, 11:00:49 AM
This is all very interesting. I find it much easier to replace the engine with the gearbox fitted. I did mine recently on my own. A jack under the gearbox makes all the difference. Replacing the gearbox alone, in situ, is a right pain and I would not do that again, as I'm simply not strong enough.
I notice you don't have a second exhaust port, so I hope you have modern valves, or the head of No. 4 exhaust valve might part company from its stem one day. All the hot gasses from all cylinders passing No. 4 is a bit of poor design in my opinion. Usually, the cooling in that area is limited. Peter Renou has modified his very successfully to cure the problem. I attach a photo of my exhaust system.
Last weekend I was privileged to see the Augusta, bought in pieces by Martin at Omicron. It's a super looking project, as everything that has been done - and there's a lot of it, has been done to a very high standard. It's going to be a splendid example.
Keep up the good work.
Regards, John


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 18 June, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
Jim turned up on Thursday and, thanks to the careful measuring and planning on Tuesday, things went in a fairly straightforward manner. It was not all plain sailing, it never is!! The cross member had been partly obstructed by the rotisserie frame and one job left outstanding was to clean up the  untouched areas, during which, of course, some corrosion was found. It was only a very small area, but a repair plate had to be cut and formed. Routine stuff now!! So that was that, aprons welded in and looking good. I primed them and then it was a matter of getting the shell back onto the rotisserie. In best Haynes Manual fashion, refitting is simply the reverse of the removal. However, Jim had gone and I found it difficult to support the shell separately from the front axle, which also had to be supported whilst it was being removed and then slide the rotisserie A frame, which is unwieldy to say the least, back into place. It was achieved, but my back took a while to recover!! 

Well I found the clutch spring, of course it was not where I thought it was!!! I was sure that it was in the garage, but it was at the workshop .... !!!! At least I had got it!!!

The photograph shows the new and old side by side, the old is some 5mm shorter than the new, but remember the old is now 80+ years old!!! (assuming it is the original).

I am pleased to say that the three bolts that secure the spring restraining plate have been designed carefully and are long enough (just!!) to allow the spring to be safely removed and installed. It is just a matter of being careful when the spring is fully relaxed and to ensure that the bolts are undone/done up equally to load the spring evenly.

So now the shell is safely back on the rotisserie for the final bits of work .... sill drainage holes and Waxoyl holes are the main items. The clutch should be as new, it now has a new spring and a new friction plate, progress, but there is still a way to go!!!

                          Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 June, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
But you're not going to fill with waxoyl yet ?? The painter won't be happy ...... risk of silicon(type) marks

I like the plates, on Aprilias they are bolted on afterwards which makes it simpler

Looking forward to the next stage !


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 19 June, 2016, 09:38:32 PM
No Waxoyl until I have had all the paint done!!! I definitely do not want to take any risks there!!!

I have a busy week ahead and may not get much time in the workshop, but I am intent on pushing on as rapidly as possible.

                           Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: rogerelias on 20 June, 2016, 07:19:17 PM
So I guess it won't be ready for this years AGM then  ::)


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 20 June, 2016, 09:05:36 PM
Not quite, maybe next year ..... but I have said that several times before!!!!

                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 30 June, 2016, 09:28:48 PM
With the shell back up on the rotisserie it was quick and easy work to complete the sill drainage holes and Waxoyl holes and now the work on the shell is complete!!! At last!!!!

So what next?? Simple, axles on, steering on and drop it off the rotisserie ready for transport to the paint shop!!! The photographs show the steering wheel, column and box with linkage in place. I still have to fit new bearings to the front hubs, second coat of paint on the brake drums and assemble the rear spring rear shackle bearings. These shackle bearings have been made to Morris Parry's design and the components turned up here in Essex. I have to source the final parts and then it should (please) be plain  sailing!!!

The plan is for both the Gussie and B20 to go together which theoretically allows me to give the workshop a thorough spring clean.

Add in collect a gearbox for the Appia and swap it over to see if the 6 channel electronic stethescope has actually found the source of the tapping/knocking noise. Please note that I have various other adjectives to describe the noise, none of them suitable for use in this august publication!!!!

I hope also to re-commission the Y10 .... such a delightful car to drive .....

However, I think my top priority must be to rebuild the B20 engine!!!!!! That on its own will keep me out of mischief for a while.

                                   Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Kari on 01 July, 2016, 07:50:08 AM
Very good to see the process on your gussie.

May I suggest the following: On my gussie the wires for the right hand headlights were routed through the holes marked blue on the picture. This invites water from rain or carwash entering the side boxes. I have routed the wires on the outside of the crossmenber and have plugged the 4 holes after anti corrosion treatment.

Karl


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 01 July, 2016, 08:16:58 AM
Karl, thank you for that tip. I will be going to the workshop later today so I will have a look. I installed new wiring in the car many years ago, but never connected anything up! Definitely anything that can help to reduce the amount of water getting into box sections has to be good!!!

                                Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 04 July, 2016, 04:21:19 PM
While Simon was being smug and enjoying a day out in the sun of southern France (see Everyday Appia Thread), Jim and I were once again attacking horrible, dirty, rusty bits of Gussie with grinders and drills. I keep thinking, right that's it, there simply are no more parts that need to have paint, rust, dirt, oil and other non-desirable matter removed. I keep thinking I have done the final vacuum clean (industrial style) in the workshop ..... I keep being proved wrong!!!

Jim attacked the better of the two petrol tanks, it really seems in quite good order. This is just as well as the other tank is in a truly parlous state!!! Patches soldered on, patches bolted on .... severe rust pitting and of course dents galore. This tank is for sale if anyone is interested!!! To get back to Jim, the tank cleaned up very well and is now in primer. Needless to say the fuel level gauge is non existent, but there are various ways around that and it is nowhere on the priorities list!!! In the meantime I decided to remove the bonnet main hinge to have it re-chromed. The hinge pin came out easily enough .... copious amounts of penetrating fluid and a couple of good hits started it moving. Jim has a standard procedure once it has started .... secure the end of the hinge pin in the chuck of a drill and simply spin it out. It worked a treat despite my misgivings!! With the pin out and the bonnet in two halves it was easy to see how the female elements of the hinge are attached ....  the edge of the (aluminium) bonnet is folded over and the double thickness brass sheet of the formed hinge is clenched under the folded aluminium. Not the easiest thing to release, so a quick call for advice which elicited the response .... " don't touch it if you don't have to!!!!". It seems the aluminium and/or brass crack when you try to release the clenched materials resulting in a useless hinge and a damaged bonnet. So we left well alone!!

Next clean up the wheels (we're hoping to need those soon!!) and the front brake back plates. More muck and bullets all over everything in the workshop. However, there are now four wheels, with tyres apparently holding air and one cleaned back plate ... the other one I hope to do during the week!!! The back plates will not be put on the car immediately, it will go for spraying without brakes, but it will be good to have everything ready to go on its return.

A couple of photos ...

                            Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 04 July, 2016, 04:27:15 PM
Oops, poor Jim .... mind you, he does look better face down. However the levitation is a step too far!!

I will have one go at getting it right, if that doesn't work, just turn your screen through 90!!!

                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 04 July, 2016, 04:28:20 PM
Oops again ..... time to turn your screen through 90!!!

                    Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 July, 2016, 08:30:31 PM
Nice ... didn't know that they had aluminium bonnets

Like the hinge-pin removal trick


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: peteracs on 07 July, 2016, 01:53:05 PM
Oops, poor Jim .... mind you, he does look better face down. However the levitation is a step too far!!


                                 Andy

And working late with the looks of it (7:13), or was it early?

Peter


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 13 July, 2016, 07:45:43 AM
Time to get the shell off the rotisserie. The front was easy, after all, I had practised this!!! The only thing different on this occasion (last Saturday) was that on Friday my GP advised me that I was not to lift anything heavy or exert myself .... it seems I have a double hernia!! Good thing I did not know about that when I went to get the Appia gearbox three days earlier!!! Not that they are that heavy. So all went well, but a little slower and I had to ask Jim to help lift the front axle into place.
Then it was time to sort out the rear axle. The first task was to lower the shell on the rotisserie onto a modified trolley. We had assembled the rear shackle bushes ... a Morris Parry design utilising nylatron in place of the roller bearings in the originals. It was quite a task to press  these into the housings on the shell, but those in the spring eyes were relatively easy using the vice. The springs were were then installed on the rear shackles without any problems, but unfortunately we were beaten at the front as there was paint in the threads for the through bolts. Typical Lancia to use fine threaded bolts, so that will have to wait be finished when Jim has found the tap.
Time for some photographs ....

                        Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 13 July, 2016, 07:47:16 AM
Computer on its side time please gentlemen!!!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 23 July, 2016, 10:13:44 PM
Time to see what the next batch of photographs come out like!!! Hint, the car is no longer on the rotisserie and thus should appear 'right way up'!!!!

Today the Gussie is actually back on its wheels!!!! It is on dollies just to simplify things in the workshop, but a huge step .... axles on (the front will be switched for the original shortly) plus wheels and the steering all linked up. No brakes, not even the back plates, but all ready to go for paint.

The photographs show the result of many months of effort.

                                                      Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 23 July, 2016, 10:15:08 PM
Let down by the last one!!!!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: Parisien on 23 July, 2016, 10:23:34 PM
No worries Andy, looking the part and great to get it this far.

P


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 08 November, 2016, 09:20:53 PM
I keep thinking of bits that need to be painted along with the shell ..... then I need to find them!!!! So there are a couple more bits bolted on and the bonnet plus headlamp shells and supports are boxed up inside ready to go. As I think you, know finish colour will be black, I'll choose a modern, easy to match version so that when I uncover yet more parts that should have been painted with the shell it shouldn't be too much of a challenge!!!!

Here's the latest photograph taken yesterday. She is lined up ready to exit the workshop so that I can drive the Appia in to do the gearbox swap. It will not be straightforward as the 3 car workshop has but one pair of doors in the centre. So the Gussie will be pushed out, the Appia will be driven in, put up on dollies then gracefully(?) spun round a support column to a position to one side of the workshop. The Gussie will then be pushed back in to await transport to the spray booth!!!!

Progress is being made, it just is painfully slow!!!!

                                             Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2016, 09:06:11 AM

Three cars and a cart :)


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 09 November, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
That should be two carts David, there is another lightweight one in the back. A cart enthusiast described that one to me as "the Golf GTi of its day"!!! He, unfortunately poor chap, didn't understand about Lancias!!!!

                                            Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 November, 2016, 01:43:39 PM
I love the photo of the Augusta peering out of the garage


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 09 November, 2016, 10:16:11 PM
Tomorrow morning should see the Gussie not just peering out through the workshop door, but actually moving out under her own steam ..... That sounds better than will actually be the case, under her own steam should be more accurately written as under the effect of gravity, The difficult bit getting her out will be stopping her, there are no brakes!! Getting her back in after the Appia has entered and done her twirl will require a little more effort. Hence Jim will be putting in an appearance and I have also blackmailed a neighbour into providing a little motive force!!!

The above of course does depend on the Appia actually starting tomorrow morning!! I have 12.68 volts on the battery and am hoping for the best!!! Time will tell!!

                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 November, 2016, 03:54:59 PM

Got a winch to pull her back in?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 10 November, 2016, 10:12:44 PM
Better than a winch I had a Jim and a neighbour!!!!! Seriously, as this is just the shell, no mechanicals and no interior there is not a lot of weight and the whole operation went very well.

Starting the Appia was a worry as it was cold and damp this morning. At first there was a lot of churning, no action and a lot of cursing!!! A quick spray of WD 40 later and all was well!!! I went for a quick drive along the seafront and then up to the workshop. With the three of us the Gussie was pushed out, the Appia driven in, jacked up, dropped onto the dollies and spun round into her final position within 35 mins. In another 10 mins the Gussie was pushed back in and we were congratulatingh ourselves on a job well done. That is a very rare experience for me, usually jobs do not go as planned and always take at least 3 times as long as expected!!!!

The photograph shows the end result!!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: davidwheeler on 11 November, 2016, 09:09:56 AM
Black is black is black ain't it?   It was in my day!


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 25 January, 2018, 03:58:24 PM
Well, it's time to wake this little thread up after 15 months of inactivity!!!!

I regret that I am still not playing with the cars, but Minera has been working on my front axle!!! Of course there is a problem ...... but only one, so far!!!!

One of the springs is broken, not the main one I am pleased to say!! So does anyone out there have a spare one of these that I may purchase? I am not sure how to describe it, but a picture speaks a thousand words so there are 6000 words to follow!!!

The first photograph with this message show my broken spring, this is followed by two photographs showing the spring dimensions ...... the spring being measured is from the other sliding pillar.

 Three more photographs follow.

                        Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 25 January, 2018, 04:01:12 PM
Three more photographs ..... so if anyone has a spare spring, please contact me!!

                               Andy



Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 January, 2018, 04:48:15 PM
I've got a 47mm x 28 - could you shim it ?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 26 January, 2018, 04:02:23 PM
I thought I had some, but sorry, can't find them!
 If I were you, I would send the good one to Paul Savage at Unit 7, Palmers Road, Redditch, B98 0RF and get him to make a few. His prices are very reasonable.
 You will be able to sell the spare ones to the numerous Augustarists who are rebuilding their cars.
Regards, John


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: davidwheeler on 29 January, 2018, 10:52:08 AM
Augustinians, surely?


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 29 January, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Augustinians, surely?
fair enough.


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: the.cern on 31 January, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
I thought I had some, but sorry, can't find them!
 If I were you, I would send the good one to Paul Savage at Unit 7, Palmers Road, Redditch, B98 0RF and get him to make a few. His prices are very reasonable.
 You will be able to sell the spare ones to the numerous Augustarists who are rebuilding their cars.
Regards, John

Hello John, thank you for your help. However, I am having trouble contacting Paul Savage .... the number I have found is 'unobtainable' Do you have a telephone contact please?

                                                 Andy


Title: Re: An Augusta Story
Post by: JohnMillham on 31 January, 2018, 07:10:53 PM
I thought I had some, but sorry, can't find them!
 If I were you, I would send the good one to Paul Savage at Unit 7, Palmers Road, Redditch, B98 0RF and get him to make a few. His prices are very reasonable.
 You will be able to sell the spare ones to the numerous Augustarists who are rebuilding their cars.
Regards, John

Hello John, thank you for your help. However, I am having trouble contacting Paul Savage .... the number I have found is 'unobtainable' Do you have a telephone contact please?

                                                 Andy
Yes, it's 01527 510960 or try his Email:- sales@neptuneworks.com
Regards, John